Toy Gun Buy-Back

[freethefly 6]

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In gang areas, guns are portrayed as the means to move up the ladder on the street. It has been glorified to the point that gun violence is emulated by children. Playing gang banger with either a squirt gun or a cap gun only glorifies the lifestyles. If parents want their children to not be be playing such games then they need to find an alternative. This program seems to be an attempt to do just that.

Kids have been playing cowboys and indians since there actually were cowboys and indians.

If parents want to avoid these sort of negative outcomes, the key is actual parenting, not silly notions that playing with a cap gun will make them thugs later. Absentee parents are the problem - no one sees the beginning of the bad behavior and therefore doesn't nip it in the bud. Or worse, they contribute to the problem with the same sort of behavior. (See Bill Cosby)

All the good parenting in the world does not necessarily mean that a child will grow to be a model citizen.
Kids tend to latch on to outside role models. They tend to emulate their role models. Good role model = good behavior (not always.) Bad role model = bad behavior (not always.)
Are you against parents not wanting their children playing with toy guns?

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[champu 1]

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On teen violence in New Jersey:
http://www.njisj.org/document/NJISJYouthViolencePreventionTestimony_Final_112006.pdf
As stated in the report, while other programs do work, gang membership is on the rise.

A study of teen violence in Chicago:
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/217397.pdf
http://www.nij.gov/nij/topics/crime/gun-violence/youths-gangs-guns/why-carry.htm

Violence is a learned behavior. Newark is riddled with gang activity. I've tied up the rail car in the rail yard there and would not walk the streets at night. Kids in gang territory learn just what they see. If they see shootings, they are more than likely to emulate that with toy guns.

The reports all conclude that growing up around violence makes you more likely to commit violence. I think that result is pretty intuitive. But I don't see any evidence to suggest that toy guns and super soakers act as some kind of cavitation site for violence with real guns.

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If the people in a community such as Newark wish to use programs to change the mindset of their children to reduce the chance of losing those kids, more power to them. It's their neighborhood, they should do everything they can to turn their neighborhood around.

Agreed, fundamentally, I'm just skeptical of this program's ability to accomplish much.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Are you against parents not wanting their children playing with toy guns?

Not strongly against it, I just don't think it makes a lick of difference. And in the greater sense, sheltering children from 'scary things' or things that vaguely resemble them has its own issues.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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The bad behavior is the use of violence, not the use of the gun as the tool of violence.

In gang areas, guns are portrayed as the means to move up the ladder on the street. It has been glorified to the point that gun violence is emulated by children. Playing gang banger with either a squirt gun or a cap gun only glorifies the lifestyles. If parents want their children to not be be playing such games then they need to find an alternative. This program seems to be an attempt to do just that.
So many people are fast to scream that it is the fault of the parent for not teaching their children good values. Here we have an attempt to promote better values and here we have those who are screaming "gunophobe."

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And as I suggested previously, the squirt gun is hardly the gateway tool to a life of crime.

I contend it depends on where one lives and the lifestyle that is prevalent. If all a child sees, on a daily basis, it very well could be just a case of simple transition from a cap gun to a Glock.

Do you believe marijuana is a gateway to other drugs?

[masterrig 1]

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I grew up watching The Rifleman ( good guy ) then learned hunting and gun safety. Never wanted to go shoot someone. My parents made it clear that it wasn't okay to do that, not that I didnt know it already.

The difference is the good guy was glorified, not the bad guy. One of my movie heroes was John Wayne. "Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway."

Maybe more shows like Rifleman and movies like True Grit is part of the answer?

I too, watched all the t.v. westerns of the '50's and '60's... they taught good, real values. They made it quite apparent who the good-guy was and who the bad guy was. We don't have t.v. shows like that now and I doubt, very many kids would watch them. Kids are more aware of the world today, thanks to the world-wide web and at a younger age than us. Kids today have a wider array of influnces outside the home than we did. Times have changed at warp speed since we were kids.


Chuck

[kallend 2,106]

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One of my movie heroes was John Wayne. "Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway."

Dreadful actor, worse human being.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[freethefly 6]

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Are you against parents not wanting their children playing with toy guns?

Not strongly against it, I just don't think it makes a lick of difference. And in the greater sense, sheltering children from 'scary things' or things that vaguely resemble them has its own issues.

You know, when I first read the article, I thought it was just plain silly. After all, I played with toy guns as a child. I even got my first real gun at age ten, a Mossberg 20ga pump.
Then I got to thinking about the culture of that era, 1970. Where I was growing up, in the country. I thought about who my heroes were. John Wayne, Jim Arness (Matt Dillon on Gun Smoke.) I grew up in a far different era, in a far different community, with completely different heroes. I weighed that with what a child in a gang infested Newark ghetto neighborhood is up against. I did a search and found that gun violence is up 40% in Newark http://criminaljustice.posterous.com/crime-justice-news-newark-gun-violence-up-40 I cannot help but think that those kids have it far harder than I did as a child.
I see desperate people desperate to try anything to stop the violence there. I don't believe that toy guns are the only reason for children, in these types of environments, to grow to be gang bangers. I do believe it is an element in some cases.
The parents should encourage playing with musical instruments instead.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[freethefly 6]

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One of my movie heroes was John Wayne. "Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway."

Dreadful actor, worse human being.

As a child, I wasn't aware of his support of Nixon and the Vietnam war until I got older. However, as a child, I loved the cowboy movies. Particularly, True Grit. The book is even better.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[freethefly 6]

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Do you believe marijuana is a gateway to other drugs?

The drug itself? No.
The drug along with a number of other influences and it is just a case of simple transition to something else.

I applied that with the toy gun issue. Playing with the toy itself is not the transition. Apply a number of other elements and a child could very well be looking to be like the gang banger he/she sees on a daily basis. The one in the Escalade, gold chains and flashing his gun and money. I would think that some ghetto kids who see that may relate having a gun to having power and riches.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[kelpdiver 2]

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One of my movie heroes was John Wayne. "Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway."

Dreadful actor, worse human being.

Last week I started watching his True Grit original, had to kill it after 30 minutes. It's just not on par with last year's remake, and esp the comparison of him to Bridges.

Sometime I'll see if it gets better further in,but I'm not optimistic.

[Andy9o8 2]

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It's just not on par with last year's remake, and esp the comparison of him to Bridges.

Fill your hands, you son of a bitch.

[steve1 5]

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Many generations of Americans have grown up that way with toy guns, and yet as adults they don't go around shooting each other just for the fun of it.

Let''s be honest. There is a large number of adults who have used guns for violence, since the invention. Every generation has their outlaws. It is nothing new.
The last couple of generations, however, has grown up on media that encourage bad behavior. We can blame their actions on bad parenting, violent video games, gangsta rap..., or we can look at the whole picture and see that a number of elements come together to encourage behavior. Young children tend to be very impressed by what is portrayed as cool.
I'll use gangsta rap as an example of encouraging inner-city gang violence. Gangsta rap reflects the reality of life in the worst parts of the city. The song 'Gangsta Paradise' illustrates the gangsta life.
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I'm well aware that there is too much violence in America. Poor parenting, violence in the media, violent video games, violent video games, violent music, are some big factors in this. There is research to prove all of that.

But I think it is a big stretch to say that just because kids are playing cops and robbers, or cowboys and indians, or even army, that they could very well grow up to be psychotic killers, because of that.

I raised two daughters. One of the most memorable Christmases that they often recall is when I bought them both cap pistols. We spent a very fun, cold, Christmas Day playing with these cap pistols. The house was filled with the fumes of cap guns. We loved every minute of it.

Guess what....neither of my daughters were harmed by that. The oldest works in a school, the other in a bank. Both are happy, healthy, productive adults.

My gosh, What's the world coming to! Now they are trading in toy guns. Don't people realize there are much bigger things to worry about?

[DanG 1]

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My gosh, What's the world coming to! Now they are trading in toy guns. Don't people realize there are much bigger things to worry about?

Of course you're right. There are much more important things than toy gun buy-backs, such as complaining about toy gun buy-backs on the internet.

- Dan G

[freethefly 6]

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But I think it is a big stretch to say that just because kids are playing cops and robbers, or cowboys and indians, or even army, that they could very well grow up to be psychotic killers, because of that.

In an urban area where gang culture tends to be passed from one generation to the next, toy gun play may very well be an element that cultivate real gun violence.

"Little kids, they're young adults," Onque said. "They keep growing, and if they keep playing with guns, in a negative way ... Guns in urban communities, there's nothing good about it. We're just trying to change mindsets."http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2011/08/22/1726018/man-shoots-self-near-kids-nj-toy.html

Who is better to know? The people who live in the most violent neighborhoods are. They see it on a daily basis. I do not see them as trying to take away guns from responsible owners, only to change the gun culture in their neighborhood.

David Codrea, Gun Rights Examiner http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/toy-buyback-shows-utter-incompetence-of-gungrabbers-at-reducing-violence, attempts to turn the table from its true intention by implying that children are in more danger by playing hockey.
His examples:
Boy killed with hockey stick‏ - YouTube
Another Youtube fake. I conclude that Codrea is an idiot and believes that his followers are idiots, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhE9p6QaXq4

Police probe death of public schoolboy, 12, killed by hockey ball.
I searched for this incident and find that the boy was hit by a hockey ball and subsequently died of a heart attack.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1091613/Police-probe-death-public-schoolboy-12-killed-hockey-ball-game.html
Further investigation reveals the medical examiners finding.
Giancarlo Ferrara, 12, suffered a fatal brain haemorrhage after a friend took a shot at him while he kept goal.
Just moments before Giancarlo had been telling his classmates to "bring it on" as they began shooting practice, but he died almost instantly when he was hit by the 5.5oz solid plastic ball. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7037398/Schoolboy-killed-after-being-hit-in-head-by-hockey-ball.html
I am assuming the kids would not be playing with a solid plastic ball, rather a ball or puck designed for street hockey. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_hockey

Man killed with hockey stick Court told of semi-clothed man and woman found in bloodsplattered bedroom.
Wasn't hard to find the story. I have no idea what the analogy is to kids playing street hockey.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/man-killed-with-hockey-stick-court-told-of-semi-clothed-man-and-woman-found-in-blood-splattered-bedroom-1.407699

Neighbor says man killed raccoons with hockey stick.
Another extremely far stretched and lame attempt to paint street hockey as dangerous.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/07/20/bc-esquimalt-raccoons-deaths-spca.html

Family of girl killed by hockey puck gets settlement
I remember this incident. A quick search finds:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/news/2002/03/20/puck_death_ap/
Still, this is not street hockey. There is a major difference between the two. As a teenager, in St. Louis, I played both, street hockey and ice hockey. Never saw any injuries, other than road rash, playing street hockey. I did see some gashes playing on ice.
From all indications, the toy gun buy-back is not promoting ice hockey, but street hockey. Playing on ice has cost that the street version does not. I would think that the low income parents could afford the cost.

Referee killed by ice hockey puck
Again, this is ice hockey. A hard, heavy rubber puck is used on ice. The puck moves at a high rate of speed. In street hockey a lite weight puck is used and moves nowhere near that of a ice hockey puck.
http://tvnz.co.nz/othersports-news/ice-hockey-ref-killed-puck-3346093

LOVE RIVAL KILLED MAN WITH HOCKEY STICK, COURT TOLD
I'm missing the point. Exactly, what does this have to do with kids playing hockey?
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-110798835.html

Codrea's examples showing nothing more than his "utter incompetence" at writing a simple argument to support his claim. His examples only weakens the gun rights case by showing that they are desperate enough to go as far as to hold up a faked video from Youtube as an example to the danger of hockey.
His piece his comical at most.

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I raised two daughters. One of the most memorable Christmases that they often recall is when I bought them both cap pistols. We spent a very fun, cold, Christmas Day playing with these cap pistols. The house was filled with the fumes of cap guns. We loved every minute of it.

Guess what....neither of my daughters were harmed by that. The oldest works in a school, the other in a bank. Both are happy, healthy, productive adults.

I am assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) that you did not raise your children in a ghetto that is ruled by gang culture. The dynamics at work in an area that is prone to gang violence and the culture that cultivates such is far different than the dynamics and culture in the rural farming community that I now live.
There is no doubt that toy guns are not the main cause of gun violence in gang culture. There is no doubt that some children who grow up in underprivileged communities tend to see guns as a means to power. It should not be hard to draw a conculsion that toy guns at an early age may be an element that breaks down the barrier between play and reality. I have no doubt that the parents of vulnerable children want to change that perception by changing the culture.

Gun rights activist would better serve their image by jumping on board with groups aiming to curb gun violence, instead of creating the false pretense of gun grabbing. If gun activist are so concern for the children's playtime, they should then go live in the neighborhoods those kids live in.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[steve1 5]

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My gosh, What's the world coming to! Now they are trading in toy guns. Don't people realize there are much bigger things to worry about?

Of course you're right. There are much more important things than toy gun buy-backs, such as complaining about toy gun buy-backs on the internet.

You have a point. But this is so ridiculous it's hard not to respond....

[kelpdiver 2]

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In an urban area where gang culture tends to be passed from one generation to the next, toy gun play may very well be an element that cultivate real gun violence.

"Little kids, they're young adults," Onque said. "They keep growing, and if they keep playing with guns, in a negative way ... Guns in urban communities, there's nothing good about it. We're just trying to change mindsets."http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2011/08/22/1726018/man-shoots-self-near-kids-nj-toy.html

Who is better to know? The people who live in the most violent neighborhoods are. They see it on a daily basis.

If the people in the violent neighborhoods knew what to do about it, why haven't those neighborhoods improved? The obvious answer: they don't know. Second answer: too busy protesting the police trying to do it for them.

Look - you got your pet theory, but you've provided not a single bit of evidence to support it. "It just feels logical to me." Let me trumpet out my own:

Kids gravitate towards the forbidden. Alcohol is a prime example - they can't have it until they're 21, and spend every waking hour in college in pursuit. In Europe, where the age is typically 16, and it's often served at the family dinner, they don't have the same rate of abuse and issues. Therefore, it's better to show children guns, to demystify them, and to ward off the false impressions given by the media.

Feels good to me, and a step past you, actually has a vague analogy thrown in.

But if you want to deal with something more tangible, consider: we've had zero tolerance (intelligence) policies at schools regarding fake gun play for quite some time now. It's reasonable to say that the frequency of playing cops/robbers or cowbows/indians is dramatically lower than it once was. Toy guns used to be rather authentic, now they legally and for marketing reasons are quite distorted. And yet, has violence changed at all? Nope. There's no relationship here.

[JohnRich 4]

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There is no doubt that some children who grow up in underprivileged communities tend to see guns as a means to power. It should not be hard to draw a conculsion that toy guns at an early age may be an element that breaks down the barrier between play and reality. I have no doubt that the parents of vulnerable children want to change that perception by changing the culture.

So then, using that same rationale, you are also in favor of banning violent video games, TV shows and movies in those same neighborhoods?

[steve1 5]

Mark,
I think what you are trying to describe may border on gun phobia. There are much bigger things to target, in terms of causes of violence, other than kids playing with toy guns.

I work with a teacher who freaks out at the mere thought of a gun. She literally went beserk, at a little fifth grader, last year, for bringing a plastic toy replica of a gun to school. This replica was about one inch long.

(I work as a school counselor.) Another time this same teacher, told me about two boys on the playground who were playing cops and robbers. They were using their fingers as guns. This poor excuse for a teacher wanted me to talk to these boys, because they were surely disturbed, to do something as evil as that. I think the only person who is disturbed is this teacher.

Please don't assume that I know nothing about gang culture, or economically deprived people, or ghetto's for that matter. I've spent the past 28 years working in just that sort of place.

When I started work on this Indian reservation, the town I work in, had the highest murder rate in the United States (per capita). Gangs are very prevalent here. We have the Bloods, Crypts, and several other gangs.

One thing I teach is gun safety. I also have an outdoor club where kids can learn about hunting.

One reason kids turn to gangs is because they have nothing better to do.

I grew up in an extremely difficult, dysfunctional, home. Guns and hunting is what kept me out of trouble. If It hadn't been for that I'm not sure where I would have ended up. That passion is what kept me going when life looked awful.

I have a hard time picturing guns as something evil. For some people that is all they can see....

[freethefly 6]

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In an urban area where gang culture tends to be passed from one generation to the next, toy gun play may very well be an element that cultivate real gun violence.

"Little kids, they're young adults," Onque said. "They keep growing, and if they keep playing with guns, in a negative way ... Guns in urban communities, there's nothing good about it. We're just trying to change mindsets."http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2011/08/22/1726018/man-shoots-self-near-kids-nj-toy.html

Who is better to know? The people who live in the most violent neighborhoods are. They see it on a daily basis.

If the people in the violent neighborhoods knew what to do about it, why haven't those neighborhoods improved? The obvious answer: they don't know. Second answer: too busy protesting the police trying to do it for them.

Look - you got your pet theory, but you've provided not a single bit of evidence to support it. "It just feels logical to me." Let me trumpet out my own:

Kids gravitate towards the forbidden. Alcohol is a prime example - they can't have it until they're 21, and spend every waking hour in college in pursuit. In Europe, where the age is typically 16, and it's often served at the family dinner, they don't have the same rate of abuse and issues. Therefore, it's better to show children guns, to demystify them, and to ward off the false impressions given by the media.

Feels good to me, and a step past you, actually has a vague analogy thrown in.

But if you want to deal with something more tangible, consider: we've had zero tolerance (intelligence) policies at schools regarding fake gun play for quite some time now. It's reasonable to say that the frequency of playing cops/robbers or cowbows/indians is dramatically lower than it once was. Toy guns used to be rather authentic, now they legally and for marketing reasons are quite distorted. And yet, has violence changed at all? Nope. There's no relationship here.

First, I said thet toy gun play in violent neighborhoods,may be an element. I also stated that gang culture tends to be carried on into the next generation. I don't think any attempt to curb gun violence should be met with opposition.

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Toy guns used to be rather authentic, now they legally and for marketing reasons are quite distorted.

My understanding for the change is so that fake guns could be distinguished from real guns.
http://www.google.com/search?q=fake%20gun%20mistaken%20for%20real&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np

I find this to be real interesting.
http://whitehouse.gov1.info/doj/index.html
The Obama Administration believes that by encouraging parents to buy their young children realistic looking toy (and we mean TOY!) guns, the future level of gun violence will decline over time.

Does this mean that I will have to colorize my Model of 1917 Winchester one of these colors, pink, mauve,or purple?

The Federal Mandatory Weapon Colorization Program has received widespread support and has recently been endorsed by the National Rifle Association as "A common-sense solution we can all live with". The President is optimistic that his Cradle-to-Grave Gun Control Solution will have a lasting positive impact on our nation.

I can almost see a decline in NRA membership by guys angry that they had colorize their favorite Glock pink.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Andy9o8 2]

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There is no doubt that some children who grow up in underprivileged communities tend to see guns as a means to power. It should not be hard to draw a conculsion that toy guns at an early age may be an element that breaks down the barrier between play and reality. I have no doubt that the parents of vulnerable children want to change that perception by changing the culture.

So then, using that same rationale, you are also in favor of banning violent video games, TV shows and movies in those same neighborhoods?

It's less about "banning" - which tend to be a hot-button word - and more about parental and adult guidance of children whose judgment is still in the developmental stage.

Anyhow, as I mentioned above, when our kids were little, my wife and I didn't let our kids own toy guns, and we tried to keep them away from violent TV shows and movies, and video games, too, until they were well into their teens - old enough for our family's non-violence creed to have become firmly ingrained in them. All for essentially the same reason.

[kelpdiver 2]

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First, I said thet toy gun play in violent neighborhoods,may be an element. I also stated that gang culture tends to be carried on into the next generation. I don't think any attempt to curb gun violence should be met with opposition.

And we're telling you that this is a waste of time, is not a real attempt to do anything.

And just admit it - you're spending a lot more effort here than a simple belief of "may." But if you're going to continue to argue it, how about coming up with some foundation, not a red herring about an Examiner (that's like the Inquirer) column on hockey injuries.

[freethefly 6]

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I think what you are trying to describe may border on gun phobia. There are much bigger things to target, in terms of causes of violence, other than kids playing with toy guns.

I love guns and grew up around guns. I have no problem with kids playing cops and robbers. I'm only trying to see it from the point of view of parents in an area immersed in gang culture and how guns are a major part of the culture.

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I work with a teacher who freaks out at the mere thought of a gun. She literally went beserk, at a little fifth grader, last year, for bringing a plastic toy replica of a gun to school. This replica was about one inch long.

(I work as a school counselor.) Another time this same teacher, told me about two boys on the playground who were playing cops and robbers. They were using their fingers as guns. She wanted me to talk to these boys, because they must surely be disturbed, to do something as evil as that. I think the only person who is disturbed is this teacher.

I agree, it is completely silly, on the teachers behalf.
Back in 7th grade (1973) I was suspended for having a brush that had a handle that kind of looked like a steak knife handle. It was in my back pocket. The brush was a small Goody brush. My did had a shit fit over them suspending me. The one week suspension stood and nothing could change it. (Actually, I rather enjoyed the week off.) But yes, schools tend to go over board.

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Please don't assume that I know nothing about gang culture, or economically deprived people, or ghetto's for that matter. I've spent the past 28 years working in just that sort of place.

When I started work on this Indian reservation, the town I work in, had the highest murder rate in the United States (per capita). Gangs are very prevalent here. We have the Bloods, Crypts, and several other gangs.

Back in the 80s-early 90s, I rode in what could be considered an "outlaw" motorcycle club. Club house was in North St. Louis city (St. Louis Ave and Blair). Not a very good area. We dealt, quite a lot, with the Bloods. I'll let you consider what kind of stuff we dealt with. I wasn't shocked to see small kids dressed like gang bangers and running around "capping" each other. It was just the reality of the area, sad as that is. Not much real hope when that is what is learned at an early age. I think this is what the toy gun buy-back is trying to change. Playing "gang banger" and "capping" each other is not the same as cops and robbers, and is not healthy play, in my opinion.

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One thing I teach is guns safety, and I have an outdoor club where kids can learn about hunting.

They would do well to implement programs like this as well.

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One reason kids turn to gangs is because they have nothing better to do.

My nephew called earlier today. He is with the drug task force in the KC area. He is the K9 handler and his department drug abuse expert. We talked about this program in Newark. He often does classroom visits at the area schools. He interacts with gang members and future members. Mostly, he told me (and I already knew, as I am sure you know also) kids seek gangs for a sense of belonging. They also seek them for the "glory" as well as a means of income. He says that kids prone to joining gangs see guns as merely a tool to be used to get what you want. He agreed that the buy-back was good to change their perception and that starting at an early age is the only way to get the ball rolling. Ryan said he was sick and tired of seeing kids dead or injured from (real) gun play. Most of these kids are under 16 years old.

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I grew up in an extremely difficult, dysfunctional, home. Guns and hunting is what kept me out of trouble. If It hadn't been for that I'm not sure where I would have ended up. That passion is what kept me going when life looked awful.

My parents fought constantly. My dad liked to drink. However, my childhood wasn't bad. Motorcycles, we raced motocross, my dad drag raced, we had a front engine dragster, we had guns and hunted. Not to bad. Parents divorced in 79. My dad was a 21 year Navy man, Senior Chief. Despite all of his faults, he is a good guy and he tried his best to instil responsibility in us. Somewhere along the way, I took a different route, but got back on track later. Good parenting does not always mean that a kid while be a model citizen. Just as bad parenting does not always mean that a kid will be a criminal.

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I have a hard time picturing guns as something evil. For some people that is all they can see....

It's impossible for an inanimate object to be anything other than an object. It is the context in which it is used that is either good or evil. Context, being the key word.
I hope this clears up my stance, as I am not against guns. I'll being buying another one before long. I just hope that their effort in Newark is not in vain. But the results of such an undertaking cannot be known for some years down the road.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[mnealtx 0]

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It's impossible for an inanimate object to be anything other than an object. It is the context in which it is used that is either good or evil. Context, being the key word.

Then why do you keep mentioning 'gun violence' instead of 'violent criminals'?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[freethefly 6]

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It's impossible for an inanimate object to be anything other than an object. It is the context in which it is used that is either good or evil. Context, being the key word.

Then why do you keep mentioning 'gun violence' instead of 'violent criminals'?

Why do they say "Gunfight"? It's not two or more "guns" fighting.
Why do they say "Firefight" when guns are used? They're not fighting with fire nor are two flames fighting each other.

I think you know exactly what is meant by the term "gun violence."
Thanks for being you, The King of the Eloquent Prose. Always entertaining. No more than one line zingers.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

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First, I said thet toy gun play in violent neighborhoods,may be an element. I also stated that gang culture tends to be carried on into the next generation. I don't think any attempt to curb gun violence should be met with opposition.

And we're telling you that this is a waste of time, is not a real attempt to do anything.

And just admit it - you're spending a lot more effort here than a simple belief of "may." But if you're going to continue to argue it, how about coming up with some foundation, not a red herring about an Examiner (that's like the Inquirer) column on hockey injuries.

There are a number of studies that suggest that toy guns lead to gun violence (just Google.) I tend to disagree. However, talking, today, with my nephew (he is a drug cop and does work with gang bangers around Kansas City) on this subject, I agree, as he does, that in certain neighborhoods, toy guns may very well be just one of the elements that can lead certain kids towards real gun violence. Ryan likes to push sports as an alternative.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young