skiskyrock 0 #26 September 16, 2011 QuoteQuote> That editorial from WSJ (too cool to post a link, or at minimum URL text?), and many of the "conclusive studies"... brought to you by big pharma, the makers of the vaccines that include such "safe" ingredients as aluminum, formaldehyde, MSG, and thimerosal. Wonderful ingredients for infants. Hi. I'm the guy from big pharma that decides what goes in the vials. I'm just curious.... why do you think we put that stuff in there? Why do you think the FDA allows us to put it in there? What possible benefit could we derive for putting unnecessary ingredients in our product? Do you think we get a kick back from Amalgamated Mercury for putting thimerosal in the formulation or something? If it is in there we have presented evidence to the FDA that it is safe and that it's use is scientifically justified. As a necessary part of a drug product that prevents or treats disease, these are in fact wonderful for infants. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #27 September 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote it appears that you're defending her, absolutely NOT. Did you even read what I wrote? If anything, i have a worse outlook on her than the rest of you - I accusing her of intentially trying to get people to infer a falsehood - but leaving herself open to own it or deny it depending on how it plays with the masses. "do you Dowd very much? tactical quote trimming is disingenuous at best -" exactly, he's cut my quote in order to make others read my intent completely wrong thanks ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #28 September 16, 2011 Quote exactly, he's cut my quote in order to make others read my intent completely wrong thanks actually, I posted that because you did it with mine as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #29 September 16, 2011 Quoteyou did it with mine as well. not intentionally I just commented to part where you thought it "appeared that I was supporting her" the rest of your post was (as I took it) about something not related to that. important as an unrelated point, but not about Jakee's Dowding. not quoting that bit didn't add or detract from your content. I'll check out the context again - Edit: Ok, here's a better reply Quoteit appears that you're defending her, just because other politicians used anecdoctal stories too That's a bad take on it - "because the other guy does it too" is not justification, it's an observation about how bad this is in general with all pols. Your additional note that this is even worse because of the perceived relative consequences is interesting, but it would be terrible if she was direct about it or devious about it. So my point is an add on, not a differentiator gotta admit - I'm pretty distressed that the whole "others do it, so it's ok" attitude/assumption is even acceptable by decent people. Ditto with "well, the other guy is even worse". we should maintain higher standards for ourselves and others ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,500 #30 September 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteyou did it with mine as well. not intentionally I just commented to part where you thought it "appeared that I was supporting her" OK. Now do the working...Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterblaster72 0 #31 September 16, 2011 Quote Hi. I'm the guy from big pharma that decides what goes in the vials. I'm just curious.... why do you think we put that stuff in there? Why do you think the FDA allows us to put it in there? What possible benefit could we derive for putting unnecessary ingredients in our product? Do you think we get a kick back from Amalgamated Mercury for putting thimerosal in the formulation or something? If it is in there we have presented evidence to the FDA that it is safe and that it's use is scientifically justified. As a necessary part of a drug product that prevents or treats disease, these are in fact wonderful for infants. Okay, neither you nor Bill nor kelpdiver nor jclalor have responded to the fact that the DHHS has awarded a plaintiff for damages caused by a vaccination. What happened here is not an isolated case; it has happened thousands of times. Rather than people making blanket statements like "30+ vaccinations before the age of 2 is perfectly safe," perhaps we should be asking questions such as "are certain people predisposed to neurological damages from vaccines containing neurotoxins such as mercury, even in trace amounts? QuoteAccording to the medical records, CHILD consistently met her developmental milestones during the first eighteen months of her life. The record of an October 5, 1999 visit to the Pediatric Center notes that CHILD was mimicking sounds, crawling, and sitting. Pet. Ex. 31 at 9. The record of her 12-month pediatric examination notes that she was using the words "Mom" and "Dad," pulling herself up, and cruising. Id. at 10. At a July 19, 2000 pediatric visit, the pediatrician observed that CHILD "spoke well" and was "alert and active." Pet. Ex. 31 at 11. CHILD's mother reported that CHILD had regular bowel movements and slept through the night. Id. At the July 19, 2000 examination, CHILD received five vaccinations - DTaP, Hib, MMR, Varivax, and IPV. Id. at 2, 11. According to her mother's affidavit, CHILD developed a fever of 102.3 degrees two days after her immunizations and was lethargic, irritable, and cried for long periods of time. Pet. Ex. 2 at 6. She exhibited intermittent, high-pitched screaming and a decreased response to stimuli. Id. MOM spoke with the pediatrician, who told her that CHILD was having a normal reaction to her immunizations. Id. According to CHILD's mother, this behavior continued over the next ten days, and CHILD also began to arch her back when she cried. Id. On July 31, 2000, CHILD presented to the Pediatric Center with a 101-102 degree temperature, a diminished appetite, and small red dots on her chest. Pet. Ex. 31 at 28. The nurse practitioner recorded that CHILD was extremely irritable and inconsolable. Id. She was diagnosed with a post-varicella vaccination rash. Id. at 29. Two months later, on September 26, 2000, CHILD returned to the Pediatric Center with a temperature of 102 degrees, diarrhea, nasal discharge, a reduced appetite, and pulling at her left ear. Id. at 29. Two days later, on September 28, 2000, CHILD was again seen at the Pediatric Center because her diarrhea continued, she was congested, and her mother reported that CHILD was crying during urination. Id. at 32. On November 1, 2000, CHILD received bilateral PE tubes. Id. at 38. On November 13, 2000, a physician at ENT Associates noted that CHILD was "obviously hearing better" and her audiogram was normal. Id. at 38. On November 27, 2000, CHILD was seen at the Pediatric Center with complaints of diarrhea, vomiting, diminished energy, fever, and a rash on her cheek. Id. at 33. At a follow-up visit, on December 14, 2000, the doctor noted that CHILD had a possible speech delay. Id. CHILD was evaluated at the Howard County Infants and Toddlers Program, on November 17, 2000, and November 28, 2000, due to concerns about her language development. Pet. Ex. 19 at 2, 7. The assessment team observed deficits in CHILD's communication and social development. Id. at 6. CHILD's mother reported that CHILD had become less responsive to verbal direction in the previous four months and had lost some language skills. Id. At 2. On December 21, 2000, CHILD returned to ENT Associates because of an obstruction in her right ear and fussiness. Pet. Ex. 31 at 39. Dr. Grace Matesic identified a middle ear effusion and recorded that CHILD was having some balance issues and not progressing with her speech. Id. On December 27, 2000, CHILD visited ENT Associates, where Dr. Grace Matesic observed that CHILD's left PE tube was obstructed with crust. Pet. Ex. 14 at 6. The tube was replaced on January 17, 2001. Id. Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a pediatric neurologist, evaluated CHILD at the Kennedy Krieger Children's Hospital Neurology Clinic ("Krieger Institute"), on February 8, 2001. Pet. Ex. 25 at 1. Dr. Zimmerman reported that after CHILD's immunizations of July 19, 2000, an "encephalopathy progressed to persistent loss of previously acquired language, eye contact, and relatedness." Id. He noted a disruption in CHILD's sleep patterns, persistent screaming and arching, the development of pica to foreign objects, and loose stools. Id. Dr. Zimmerman observed that CHILD watched the fluorescent lights repeatedly during the examination and would not make eye contact. Id. He diagnosed CHILD with "regressive encephalopathy with features consistent with an autistic spectrum disorder, following normal development." Id. At 2. Dr. Zimmerman ordered genetic testing, a magnetic resonance imaging test ("MRI"), and an electroencephalogram ("EEG"). Id. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,998 #32 September 16, 2011 >Okay, neither you nor Bill nor kelpdiver nor jclalor have responded to >the fact that the DHHS has awarded a plaintiff for damages caused by a >vaccination. That's because there is a law that says that the DHHS has to pay out for injury claims even if there is no scientific evidence to support the claim. The title of the law is "1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA)." Google it. It's basically no-fault insurance. Claiming that a payout means anything is silly. It's like claiming that you are at fault for an accident because your insurance company paid out to another driver after an accident in a no-fault insurance state. >Rather than people making blanket statements like "30+ vaccinations >before the age of 2 is perfectly safe," This is what's referred to as a "strawman argument." You feel you cannot win the argument so you rephrase it in a way that you CAN win. However, since no one except yourself has made this claim, you have no one to argue with other than yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #33 September 16, 2011 QuoteRather than people making blanket statements like "30+ vaccinations before the age of 2 is perfectly safe," I'd think it might make a kid a bit scared of needles. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jclalor 12 #34 September 16, 2011 I'm more than happy to reply, Lets say 10 people were awarded damages for harm done by a vaccine, So what, nothing is perfect. Are you capable of weighing the risk versus the rewards? Look at how many millions of lives have been saved by vaccines, and yet people like you cling to the tiniest of percentage points where something went wrong. I guess you undergo zero medical procedures, some people drop dead just from getting their blood drawn. If you want to live in fear and not get vaccinated as an adult, you go knock yourself out. When you force your beliefs on children that have no choice, that should be a crime. you should really study about herd immunity, when you don't vaccinate your children, you put my children's life in danger of a hiddious death. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jclalor 12 #35 September 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteRather than people making blanket statements like "30+ vaccinations before the age of 2 is perfectly safe," I'd think it might make a kid a bit scared of needles. My experience is that the more shots a child receives, the more comfortable they are getting them. Look at diabetic kids. Kids fear the unknown. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterblaster72 0 #36 September 17, 2011 Quote>Okay, neither you nor Bill nor kelpdiver nor jclalor have responded to >the fact that the DHHS has awarded a plaintiff for damages caused by a >vaccination. That's because there is a law that says that the DHHS has to pay out for injury claims even if there is no scientific evidence to support the claim. The title of the law is "1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA)." Google it. It's basically no-fault insurance. Claiming that a payout means anything is silly. It's like claiming that you are at fault for an accident because your insurance company paid out to another driver after an accident in a no-fault insurance state. >Rather than people making blanket statements like "30+ vaccinations >before the age of 2 is perfectly safe," This is what's referred to as a "strawman argument." You feel you cannot win the argument so you rephrase it in a way that you CAN win. However, since no one except yourself has made this claim, you have no one to argue with other than yourself. Okay, I'll concede that my arguments on the topic are far less factual (I have not done a lot of scholarly research on this issue) than emotional as my sister is one of those parents who has seen her child's behavior change immediately following vaccinations (and not by screaming when pricked by a needle as you so lightly put it earlier) -- very visible signs of autism. My arguments come mostly from what she told me. My sister worked her ass off years since, put the kid on a gluten/lactose/caseine free diet, got lots of therapy for him, and the nephew is doing fine now, so long as he remains on his strict diet. I'll even concede that I stuck my neck out here and got a drubbing on my stance on the issue. Nonetheless, I think we should be asking the questions: is the increase in frequency of vaccines safe for everyone, or are certain children predisposed to neurological damage from 30+ vaccines before the age of 2? I'm not even proposing we don't vaccinate children. How about spreading out the schedule so there isn't such a high number of vaccinations at once? How about alternatives to the vaccine additives (even if those parents have to pay more)? Before these 30+ vaccines by the age of 2, people weren't dying left and right, so to me, these are questions worth asking and ideas worth considering. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterblaster72 0 #37 September 17, 2011 QuoteWhen you force your beliefs on children that have no choice, that should be a crime. you should really study about herd immunity, when you don't vaccinate your children, you put my children's life in danger of a hiddious death. Nowhere have I said that kids shouldn't get vaccinated. Nor can you can you convince me that a heavy vaccine schedule does not cause *some* children neurological damage when I've heard the same accounts from many parents of their children going autistic immediately after having received certain vaccines. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks2065 0 #38 September 17, 2011 QuoteI'm more than happy to reply, Lets say 10 people were awarded damages for harm done by a vaccine, So what, nothing is perfect. Are you capable of weighing the risk versus the rewards? Look at how many millions of lives have been saved by vaccines, and yet people like you cling to the tiniest of percentage points where something went wrong. I guess you undergo zero medical procedures, some people drop dead just from getting their blood drawn. If you want to live in fear and not get vaccinated as an adult, you go knock yourself out. When you force your beliefs on children that have no choice, that should be a crime. you should really study about herd immunity, when you don't vaccinate your children, you put my children's life in danger of a hiddious death. If your kids are vaccinated, why are they in danger? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jclalor 12 #39 September 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteI'm more than happy to reply, Lets say 10 people were awarded damages for harm done by a vaccine, So what, nothing is perfect. Are you capable of weighing the risk versus the rewards? Look at how many millions of lives have been saved by vaccines, and yet people like you cling to the tiniest of percentage points where something went wrong. I guess you undergo zero medical procedures, some people drop dead just from getting their blood drawn. If you want to live in fear and not get vaccinated as an adult, you go knock yourself out. When you force your beliefs on children that have no choice, that should be a crime. you should really study about herd immunity, when you don't vaccinate your children, you put my children's life in danger of a hiddious death. If your kids are vaccinated, why are they in danger? Herd immunity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jclalor 12 #40 September 17, 2011 QuoteNowhere have I said that kids shouldn't get vaccinated. Nor can you can you convince me that a heavy vaccine schedule does not cause *some* children neurological damage when I've heard the same accounts from many parents of their children going autistic immediately after having received certain vaccines. I did not mean you personally. Children receive many vaccines in the first few years of life, it's the same time period that the symptoms of Autism are seen I think parents are desperate to Link the autism to a cause. Humans are pattern seeking animals. Statistically, Some children will shows symptoms of Autism after drinking milk and some children will die in car crashes after eating carrots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #27 September 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote it appears that you're defending her, absolutely NOT. Did you even read what I wrote? If anything, i have a worse outlook on her than the rest of you - I accusing her of intentially trying to get people to infer a falsehood - but leaving herself open to own it or deny it depending on how it plays with the masses. "do you Dowd very much? tactical quote trimming is disingenuous at best -" exactly, he's cut my quote in order to make others read my intent completely wrong thanks ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #28 September 16, 2011 Quote exactly, he's cut my quote in order to make others read my intent completely wrong thanks actually, I posted that because you did it with mine as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #29 September 16, 2011 Quoteyou did it with mine as well. not intentionally I just commented to part where you thought it "appeared that I was supporting her" the rest of your post was (as I took it) about something not related to that. important as an unrelated point, but not about Jakee's Dowding. not quoting that bit didn't add or detract from your content. I'll check out the context again - Edit: Ok, here's a better reply Quoteit appears that you're defending her, just because other politicians used anecdoctal stories too That's a bad take on it - "because the other guy does it too" is not justification, it's an observation about how bad this is in general with all pols. Your additional note that this is even worse because of the perceived relative consequences is interesting, but it would be terrible if she was direct about it or devious about it. So my point is an add on, not a differentiator gotta admit - I'm pretty distressed that the whole "others do it, so it's ok" attitude/assumption is even acceptable by decent people. Ditto with "well, the other guy is even worse". we should maintain higher standards for ourselves and others ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #30 September 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteyou did it with mine as well. not intentionally I just commented to part where you thought it "appeared that I was supporting her" OK. Now do the working...Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #31 September 16, 2011 Quote Hi. I'm the guy from big pharma that decides what goes in the vials. I'm just curious.... why do you think we put that stuff in there? Why do you think the FDA allows us to put it in there? What possible benefit could we derive for putting unnecessary ingredients in our product? Do you think we get a kick back from Amalgamated Mercury for putting thimerosal in the formulation or something? If it is in there we have presented evidence to the FDA that it is safe and that it's use is scientifically justified. As a necessary part of a drug product that prevents or treats disease, these are in fact wonderful for infants. Okay, neither you nor Bill nor kelpdiver nor jclalor have responded to the fact that the DHHS has awarded a plaintiff for damages caused by a vaccination. What happened here is not an isolated case; it has happened thousands of times. Rather than people making blanket statements like "30+ vaccinations before the age of 2 is perfectly safe," perhaps we should be asking questions such as "are certain people predisposed to neurological damages from vaccines containing neurotoxins such as mercury, even in trace amounts? QuoteAccording to the medical records, CHILD consistently met her developmental milestones during the first eighteen months of her life. The record of an October 5, 1999 visit to the Pediatric Center notes that CHILD was mimicking sounds, crawling, and sitting. Pet. Ex. 31 at 9. The record of her 12-month pediatric examination notes that she was using the words "Mom" and "Dad," pulling herself up, and cruising. Id. at 10. At a July 19, 2000 pediatric visit, the pediatrician observed that CHILD "spoke well" and was "alert and active." Pet. Ex. 31 at 11. CHILD's mother reported that CHILD had regular bowel movements and slept through the night. Id. At the July 19, 2000 examination, CHILD received five vaccinations - DTaP, Hib, MMR, Varivax, and IPV. Id. at 2, 11. According to her mother's affidavit, CHILD developed a fever of 102.3 degrees two days after her immunizations and was lethargic, irritable, and cried for long periods of time. Pet. Ex. 2 at 6. She exhibited intermittent, high-pitched screaming and a decreased response to stimuli. Id. MOM spoke with the pediatrician, who told her that CHILD was having a normal reaction to her immunizations. Id. According to CHILD's mother, this behavior continued over the next ten days, and CHILD also began to arch her back when she cried. Id. On July 31, 2000, CHILD presented to the Pediatric Center with a 101-102 degree temperature, a diminished appetite, and small red dots on her chest. Pet. Ex. 31 at 28. The nurse practitioner recorded that CHILD was extremely irritable and inconsolable. Id. She was diagnosed with a post-varicella vaccination rash. Id. at 29. Two months later, on September 26, 2000, CHILD returned to the Pediatric Center with a temperature of 102 degrees, diarrhea, nasal discharge, a reduced appetite, and pulling at her left ear. Id. at 29. Two days later, on September 28, 2000, CHILD was again seen at the Pediatric Center because her diarrhea continued, she was congested, and her mother reported that CHILD was crying during urination. Id. at 32. On November 1, 2000, CHILD received bilateral PE tubes. Id. at 38. On November 13, 2000, a physician at ENT Associates noted that CHILD was "obviously hearing better" and her audiogram was normal. Id. at 38. On November 27, 2000, CHILD was seen at the Pediatric Center with complaints of diarrhea, vomiting, diminished energy, fever, and a rash on her cheek. Id. at 33. At a follow-up visit, on December 14, 2000, the doctor noted that CHILD had a possible speech delay. Id. CHILD was evaluated at the Howard County Infants and Toddlers Program, on November 17, 2000, and November 28, 2000, due to concerns about her language development. Pet. Ex. 19 at 2, 7. The assessment team observed deficits in CHILD's communication and social development. Id. at 6. CHILD's mother reported that CHILD had become less responsive to verbal direction in the previous four months and had lost some language skills. Id. At 2. On December 21, 2000, CHILD returned to ENT Associates because of an obstruction in her right ear and fussiness. Pet. Ex. 31 at 39. Dr. Grace Matesic identified a middle ear effusion and recorded that CHILD was having some balance issues and not progressing with her speech. Id. On December 27, 2000, CHILD visited ENT Associates, where Dr. Grace Matesic observed that CHILD's left PE tube was obstructed with crust. Pet. Ex. 14 at 6. The tube was replaced on January 17, 2001. Id. Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a pediatric neurologist, evaluated CHILD at the Kennedy Krieger Children's Hospital Neurology Clinic ("Krieger Institute"), on February 8, 2001. Pet. Ex. 25 at 1. Dr. Zimmerman reported that after CHILD's immunizations of July 19, 2000, an "encephalopathy progressed to persistent loss of previously acquired language, eye contact, and relatedness." Id. He noted a disruption in CHILD's sleep patterns, persistent screaming and arching, the development of pica to foreign objects, and loose stools. Id. Dr. Zimmerman observed that CHILD watched the fluorescent lights repeatedly during the examination and would not make eye contact. Id. He diagnosed CHILD with "regressive encephalopathy with features consistent with an autistic spectrum disorder, following normal development." Id. At 2. Dr. Zimmerman ordered genetic testing, a magnetic resonance imaging test ("MRI"), and an electroencephalogram ("EEG"). Id. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #32 September 16, 2011 >Okay, neither you nor Bill nor kelpdiver nor jclalor have responded to >the fact that the DHHS has awarded a plaintiff for damages caused by a >vaccination. That's because there is a law that says that the DHHS has to pay out for injury claims even if there is no scientific evidence to support the claim. The title of the law is "1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA)." Google it. It's basically no-fault insurance. Claiming that a payout means anything is silly. It's like claiming that you are at fault for an accident because your insurance company paid out to another driver after an accident in a no-fault insurance state. >Rather than people making blanket statements like "30+ vaccinations >before the age of 2 is perfectly safe," This is what's referred to as a "strawman argument." You feel you cannot win the argument so you rephrase it in a way that you CAN win. However, since no one except yourself has made this claim, you have no one to argue with other than yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #33 September 16, 2011 QuoteRather than people making blanket statements like "30+ vaccinations before the age of 2 is perfectly safe," I'd think it might make a kid a bit scared of needles. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #34 September 16, 2011 I'm more than happy to reply, Lets say 10 people were awarded damages for harm done by a vaccine, So what, nothing is perfect. Are you capable of weighing the risk versus the rewards? Look at how many millions of lives have been saved by vaccines, and yet people like you cling to the tiniest of percentage points where something went wrong. I guess you undergo zero medical procedures, some people drop dead just from getting their blood drawn. If you want to live in fear and not get vaccinated as an adult, you go knock yourself out. When you force your beliefs on children that have no choice, that should be a crime. you should really study about herd immunity, when you don't vaccinate your children, you put my children's life in danger of a hiddious death. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #35 September 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteRather than people making blanket statements like "30+ vaccinations before the age of 2 is perfectly safe," I'd think it might make a kid a bit scared of needles. My experience is that the more shots a child receives, the more comfortable they are getting them. Look at diabetic kids. Kids fear the unknown. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #36 September 17, 2011 Quote>Okay, neither you nor Bill nor kelpdiver nor jclalor have responded to >the fact that the DHHS has awarded a plaintiff for damages caused by a >vaccination. That's because there is a law that says that the DHHS has to pay out for injury claims even if there is no scientific evidence to support the claim. The title of the law is "1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA)." Google it. It's basically no-fault insurance. Claiming that a payout means anything is silly. It's like claiming that you are at fault for an accident because your insurance company paid out to another driver after an accident in a no-fault insurance state. >Rather than people making blanket statements like "30+ vaccinations >before the age of 2 is perfectly safe," This is what's referred to as a "strawman argument." You feel you cannot win the argument so you rephrase it in a way that you CAN win. However, since no one except yourself has made this claim, you have no one to argue with other than yourself. Okay, I'll concede that my arguments on the topic are far less factual (I have not done a lot of scholarly research on this issue) than emotional as my sister is one of those parents who has seen her child's behavior change immediately following vaccinations (and not by screaming when pricked by a needle as you so lightly put it earlier) -- very visible signs of autism. My arguments come mostly from what she told me. My sister worked her ass off years since, put the kid on a gluten/lactose/caseine free diet, got lots of therapy for him, and the nephew is doing fine now, so long as he remains on his strict diet. I'll even concede that I stuck my neck out here and got a drubbing on my stance on the issue. Nonetheless, I think we should be asking the questions: is the increase in frequency of vaccines safe for everyone, or are certain children predisposed to neurological damage from 30+ vaccines before the age of 2? I'm not even proposing we don't vaccinate children. How about spreading out the schedule so there isn't such a high number of vaccinations at once? How about alternatives to the vaccine additives (even if those parents have to pay more)? Before these 30+ vaccines by the age of 2, people weren't dying left and right, so to me, these are questions worth asking and ideas worth considering. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #37 September 17, 2011 QuoteWhen you force your beliefs on children that have no choice, that should be a crime. you should really study about herd immunity, when you don't vaccinate your children, you put my children's life in danger of a hiddious death. Nowhere have I said that kids shouldn't get vaccinated. Nor can you can you convince me that a heavy vaccine schedule does not cause *some* children neurological damage when I've heard the same accounts from many parents of their children going autistic immediately after having received certain vaccines. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #38 September 17, 2011 QuoteI'm more than happy to reply, Lets say 10 people were awarded damages for harm done by a vaccine, So what, nothing is perfect. Are you capable of weighing the risk versus the rewards? Look at how many millions of lives have been saved by vaccines, and yet people like you cling to the tiniest of percentage points where something went wrong. I guess you undergo zero medical procedures, some people drop dead just from getting their blood drawn. If you want to live in fear and not get vaccinated as an adult, you go knock yourself out. When you force your beliefs on children that have no choice, that should be a crime. you should really study about herd immunity, when you don't vaccinate your children, you put my children's life in danger of a hiddious death. If your kids are vaccinated, why are they in danger? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #39 September 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteI'm more than happy to reply, Lets say 10 people were awarded damages for harm done by a vaccine, So what, nothing is perfect. Are you capable of weighing the risk versus the rewards? Look at how many millions of lives have been saved by vaccines, and yet people like you cling to the tiniest of percentage points where something went wrong. I guess you undergo zero medical procedures, some people drop dead just from getting their blood drawn. If you want to live in fear and not get vaccinated as an adult, you go knock yourself out. When you force your beliefs on children that have no choice, that should be a crime. you should really study about herd immunity, when you don't vaccinate your children, you put my children's life in danger of a hiddious death. If your kids are vaccinated, why are they in danger? Herd immunity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #40 September 17, 2011 QuoteNowhere have I said that kids shouldn't get vaccinated. Nor can you can you convince me that a heavy vaccine schedule does not cause *some* children neurological damage when I've heard the same accounts from many parents of their children going autistic immediately after having received certain vaccines. I did not mean you personally. Children receive many vaccines in the first few years of life, it's the same time period that the symptoms of Autism are seen I think parents are desperate to Link the autism to a cause. Humans are pattern seeking animals. Statistically, Some children will shows symptoms of Autism after drinking milk and some children will die in car crashes after eating carrots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #41 September 18, 2011 . . . a narrow-minded, self-serving, hypocrite; who only poses additional danger because enough people of similar ilk just might be able to vote her into the highest office in the land. Her current status is that she is moderately dangerous to her region (MN) and only slightly dangerous at the national level. Her danger level will definitely increase if she is elected POTUS." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #42 September 19, 2011 that's a good description, P - Quotea narrow-minded, self-serving, hypocrite; who only poses additional danger because enough people of similar ilk just might be able to vote her into the highest office in the land. look at the damage that personality already caused over the last nearly 12 years already I prefer her current status - she can make big, and necessary, stinks about spending and taxes be totally out of control - absolutely useful and necessary. While any of her nutbag social/religious crap can be highly diluted amongst her +500 cohorts - all of whom are nutty in their own areas. but, please, PLEASE don't let her get anywhere farther in the next few months - so she can go back to congress and obscurity - kinda where BHO should have stayed I'd like a fiscal conservative without social baggage to go up against our commander in spending - we don't need 4 more years of nutbags/suicidal spending policy - right or left wing - ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #43 July 19, 2012 Insane Hillary Clinton might do bad things because the dead father of one of her staffers used to run an organization that had the support of a guy who'd previously been in an organization sometimes associated with the Muslim Brotherhood? lol! Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #44 July 19, 2012 Quote Insane Hillary Clinton might do bad things because the dead father of one of her staffers used to run an organization that had the support of a guy who'd previously been in an organization sometimes associated with the Muslim Brotherhood? lol! Blues, Dave Nice to see McCain back at being less polarizing, and more mentally "there". Presidential runs are not good for people.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #45 July 19, 2012 Unbelievable that time gets wasted dealing with that kind of stuff. The US must be doing really well if people have time to come up with partisan shit like this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #46 July 19, 2012 QuoteInsane "Scalia dismisses talk of internal court rancor". They have a Rancor inside the Supreme Court? That sounds far more dangerous. Shouldn't Bachmann be investigating that?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #47 July 19, 2012 Quote Insane Hillary Clinton might do bad things because the dead father of one of her staffers used to run an organization that had the support of a guy who'd previously been in an organization sometimes associated with the Muslim Brotherhood? lol! Blues, Dave If Bachmann ever actually read history, she might learn about this guy named Joseph McCarthy..."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #48 July 19, 2012 >They have a Rancor inside the Supreme Court? That sounds far more >dangerous. Shouldn't Bachmann be investigating that? Eh, they're big and noisy, but fairly dumb and single-minded. Just let it be and it will leave and start a talk radio show eventually. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #49 July 19, 2012 QuoteIf Bachmann ever actually read history, she might learn about this guy named Joseph McCarthy... ... And use him as an inspiration.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
