kallend 2,027 #101 September 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Clicky. I am actually torn about this proposal. Guys like you keep claiming that the "rich" need to pay their fair share and that a little regulation never hurts anyone. Hate to break it to you.... but a guy like you with a toy car and a private plane.... You are "rich" to many people. And all of us that spend money to jump out of planes for fun have a little bit extra disposable income than most people. This is a fine example of you being good with additional taxes EXCEPT when it comes to the things YOU like. Really? I think the existing tax on aviation fuel is a far more efficient way of financing the system (as do most people who actually THINK about it) and have no problem paying an appropriate amount in proportion to my usage, even if it means fuel tax rates must be raised. Experience in Europe has shown that aviation as a whole suffers when user fees are imposed, with no noticeable improvement in aviation safety. It's not like I'm asking you to pay my fuel taxes, I'm quite happy to pay them myself. Before running off at the keyboard you should do a little research. So you are ok with paying your fair share of fuel taxes, so why are you not ok with paying your fair share of income taxes? False assumption. Find a single post where I have complained about paying income tax.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #102 September 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Clicky. I am actually torn about this proposal. Guys like you keep claiming that the "rich" need to pay their fair share and that a little regulation never hurts anyone. Hate to break it to you.... but a guy like you with a toy car and a private plane.... You are "rich" to many people. And all of us that spend money to jump out of planes for fun have a little bit extra disposable income than most people. This is a fine example of you being good with additional taxes EXCEPT when it comes to the things YOU like. Really? I think the existing tax on aviation fuel is a far more efficient way of financing the system (as do most people who actually THINK about it) and have no problem paying an appropriate amount in proportion to my usage, even if it means fuel tax rates must be raised. Experience in Europe has shown that aviation as a whole suffers when user fees are imposed, with no noticeable improvement in aviation safety. It's not like I'm asking you to pay my fuel taxes, I'm quite happy to pay them myself. Before running off at the keyboard you should do a little research. So you are ok with paying your fair share of fuel taxes, so why are you not ok with paying your fair share of income taxes? False assumption. Find a single post where I have complained about paying income tax. probably can't find 1, but I can find alot that you complain that many need to pay more than you. kinda selfish on your part. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #103 September 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Clicky. I am actually torn about this proposal. Guys like you keep claiming that the "rich" need to pay their fair share and that a little regulation never hurts anyone. Hate to break it to you.... but a guy like you with a toy car and a private plane.... You are "rich" to many people. And all of us that spend money to jump out of planes for fun have a little bit extra disposable income than most people. This is a fine example of you being good with additional taxes EXCEPT when it comes to the things YOU like. Really? I think the existing tax on aviation fuel is a far more efficient way of financing the system (as do most people who actually THINK about it) and have no problem paying an appropriate amount in proportion to my usage, even if it means fuel tax rates must be raised. Experience in Europe has shown that aviation as a whole suffers when user fees are imposed, with no noticeable improvement in aviation safety. It's not like I'm asking you to pay my fuel taxes, I'm quite happy to pay them myself. Before running off at the keyboard you should do a little research. So you are ok with paying your fair share of fuel taxes, so why are you not ok with paying your fair share of income taxes? False assumption. Find a single post where I have complained about paying income tax. probably can't find 1, but I can find alot that you complain that many need to pay more than you. kinda selfish on your part. Go on then...... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #104 September 28, 2011 QuoteYou deny there is a difference between health care and health insurance so there is no point in continuing the discussion No, but what you are refusing to do is anything that helps your cause. You refuse to do anything that will help the plight of the people you claim to care about as long as they will bring you money. If you REALLY cared about the uninsured going bankrupt due to injury.... you would not let them jump out of your planes. Instead, you want me and everyone else to pay more in taxes so you can continue to make money off of them. QuoteI'm done - arguing with someone who thinks the tax issue and HC issue are simply defined by only 2 choices for any question So you ONLY seem to care when it is a WIN-WIN for YOU and YOU alone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #105 September 28, 2011 QuoteQuotelets spread it around instead of targeting "those who can most afford it." I am all for that too - unless you read somewhere where I am not. Did you write your congressman to express that opinion? I bet you did not. I did. many times over the past several years. so much for hypocrisy. ASSume much lately? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #106 September 28, 2011 QuoteReally? I think the existing tax on aviation fuel is a far more efficient way of financing the system (as do most people who actually THINK about it) and have no problem paying an appropriate amount in proportion to my usage, even if it means fuel tax rates must be raised You support raising taxes on the "rich". Well, people that spend thousands of dollars a year in pursuit of ONLY enjoyment are doing pretty damn well. The average person makes ~100 jumps a year and at $25 a jump that is 2500 a year on just "play". Those people could easily afford to make half as many jumps and pay twice as much for them to better support the poor. QuoteBefore running off at the keyboard you should do a little research. Before running off at the mouth, you should check to see if you have a consistent message.... cause you don't when it comes to your toys and activities. "The rich should pay more...... Uh, except in aviation" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #107 September 28, 2011 QuoteThe way the proposal is written a cessna 182 load of 4 jumpers would be charged the same $100 per flight as an Otter load of 21 jumpers. That will impact the small 182 DZ per lift ticket price much more than the turbine DZ. Are you ready to run the small DZ out of business? Fact is Kallend and others have proposed that the "rich" pay more. Well, people that have several thousand dollars in equipment to be able to spend several thousand dollars a year to "play" are pretty rich in most peoples eyes. Seems they support the "rich" paying more... TILL the "rich" become them and the added taxes seem poised to hurt their hobbies. Kallend is for more regulation on guns from the ATF, but against more regulation of rockets motors from the ATF. Kallend is for additional taxes, except where he would have to pay them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #108 September 28, 2011 QuoteI think the class warfare term was generated by the right wing. Most of us on the left have suggested over and over again that taxes have to go up for EVERYONE for the mess to get resolved. Really???? EVERYONE???? "Let me be clear -- if you are a family making less than $250,000 a year ... you will not see your taxes go up," Obama July 2008, Springfield, Mo. So the top Lefty in the Country is not saying that everyones taxes should go up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #109 September 28, 2011 Quote Quote The way the proposal is written a cessna 182 load of 4 jumpers would be charged the same $100 per flight as an Otter load of 21 jumpers. That will impact the small 182 DZ per lift ticket price much more than the turbine DZ. Are you ready to run the small DZ out of business? Fact is Kallend and others have proposed that the "rich" pay more. Well, people that have several thousand dollars in equipment to be able to spend several thousand dollars a year to "play" are pretty rich in most peoples eyes. Seems they support the "rich" paying more... TILL the "rich" become them and the added taxes seem poised to hurt their hobbies. Paying user fees under this proposal as written would actually cost me less You should stop making ASSumptions about me and my financial status, it just makes you look stupid. Just because the right is motivated by greed and selfishness doesn't mean the rest of us are. According to AOPA: No matter what form they take, user fees would destroy general aviation as we know it. In every country where they've been implemented, user fees have made flying available only to the wealthy few, and have led to the immediate decline - and in some cases, the ultimate destruction - of general aviation. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #110 September 28, 2011 Quote You should stop making ASSumptions about me and my financial status, it just makes you look stupid. Kallend you know I love you but YOU are rich, there's no assumption you demostrate that in your life style and toys. And I don't believe anyone can find a post where Kallend said he wouldn't pay more taxes. It's something I admire about him and Bill. They would I believe. I can admire it...I don't agree with it thoughKevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutem 0 #111 September 28, 2011 Quoteno one minds paying an increase in fuel tax (well they do but it is easier to swallow), than a user fee. A user fee means the jumbo jet pays $100, which is a drop in the bucket, and the Cessna 150 pays $100, which is a huge impact. Hypothetical example. If they charged a 'doctor fee' to 'use the services off the HHS Dept', well, General Electric would have to pay $100 to use the services for their employees, and YOU as an individual would also conceivably have to pay $100. It is a scale of impacts. If everyone had to pay $2 more every time they went to the doctor as a fee, it would generate just as much revenue and would have less individual impact. First, show me that the FAA needs the money. I have yet to see an outline of NextGen, what it is, how it will work and how much it will cost, even an estimate. THe right wing is so hell-bent that everyone should be paying "for their own shit" and all that "personal responsibility" crap, I find it hard to believe that anyone would advocate a tax that supposedly pays for something that cannot be described Again, if they want to say - "hey - we are simply raining taxes to help pay for the deficit or we are going to fund education or healthcare with it", then I will consider this tax differently, as I have already said. I think we agree on the user fees situation. If my posts have lead you to think otherwise I must not have been clear in my writing. I believe the fuel tax to be the most equitable way to handle this. It is already in place and easy to implement. If ATC is not being adequately funded through this then raise it. Creating hard to enforce/collect user fees is not the answer. James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutem 0 #112 September 28, 2011 QuoteQuote You should stop making ASSumptions about me and my financial status, it just makes you look stupid. Kallend you know I love you but YOU are rich, there's no assumption you demostrate that in your life style and toys. And I don't believe anyone can find a post where Kallend said he wouldn't pay more taxes. It's something I admire about him and Bill. They would I believe. I can admire it...I don't agree with it though Calling Kallend rich is a point of view thing. To many he is and to others he probably is not even close. I agree with the bolded portion of your post 100%. Instead of using this issue to take shots at Kallend and TK we should be banding together as users of GA to fight user fees. James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #113 September 28, 2011 QuoteJust because the right is motivated by greed and selfishness doesn't mean the rest of us are. Huh, I am just using the SAME logic you use on just about every other issue that does not affect you. QuoteAccording to AOPA: Ah, yes... An organization made up of small plane owners built with the intent to lobby the Govt. So, I'll make you a deal: Ill accept the AOPA's opinion about small aircraft as soon as you start accepting the NRA's position on firearms..... Deal? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #114 September 28, 2011 Quote ...WIN-WIN for YOU and YOU alone. .... Yes, that's why I support Universal Healthcare - it's all about me... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #115 September 28, 2011 QuoteASSume much lately? wow, is that all you got? Your mother must be so proud.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #116 September 28, 2011 QuoteReally???? EVERYONE???? "Let me be clear -- if you are a family making less than $250,000 a year ... you will not see your taxes go up," Obama July 2008, Springfield, Mo. So the top Lefty in the Country is not saying that everyones taxes should go up. um, I did not vote for Obama. I currently do not support him. 'EVERYONE' was my quote, not his. I am advocating that EVERYONE pay more, yes. try to pay attention a little more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #117 September 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteJust because the right is motivated by greed and selfishness doesn't mean the rest of us are. Huh, I am just using the SAME logic you use on just about every other issue that does not affect you. Yet another ASSumption on your part. Taxes certainly affect me. Quote QuoteAccording to AOPA: Ah, yes... An organization made up of small plane owners built with the intent to lobby the Govt. So, I'll make you a deal: Ill accept the AOPA's opinion about small aircraft as soon as you start accepting the NRA's position on firearms..... Deal? Incredibly stupid logic. Just incredible. Why don't you tell us all why you believe the AOPA statement is incorrect instead of lamely attempting to couple it with a totally unrelated issue.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #118 September 28, 2011 QuoteYes, that's why I support Universal Healthcare - it's all about me...http://www.dropzone.com/graphics/forum/crazy.gif Fact is that you have an altruistic motive..... But REFUSE to take any steps that would help the problem that would hurt your business. You claim you want to people to have health care... But you don't provide insurance to any of your employees. Yes, you contact politicians, but you DO nothing to help your employees when you COULD. You claim that the lack of HC bankrupts people. Yes, you advocate a single payer system, but AT THE SAME TIME ALLOW UNINSURED PEOPLE TO JUMP. So yes, you do write a few letters. But you also fail to act in the ways you could TOMORROW to help the situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #119 September 28, 2011 Quote Quote ...WIN-WIN for YOU and YOU alone. .... Yes, that's why I support Universal Healthcare - it's all about me... I don't think it is all about you. Who doesn't like the idea of everyone having equal access to unlimited high quality health care. It sounds awesome on the surface. Many employers already improve the quality of their employees healthcare by offering health insurance at a great expense."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #120 September 28, 2011 And your one warning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #121 September 28, 2011 And your one warning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #122 September 28, 2011 QuoteIncredibly stupid logic. Just incredible. Time after time you claim the NRA is not a good source. But somehow when the SAME type of organization created to do the SAME thing but in a hobby YOU participate in it should be listened to? Hypocritical scale off the chart. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutem 0 #123 September 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteJust because the right is motivated by greed and selfishness doesn't mean the rest of us are. Huh, I am just using the SAME logic you use on just about every other issue that does not affect you. QuoteAccording to AOPA: Ah, yes... An organization made up of small plane owners built with the intent to lobby the Govt. So, I'll make you a deal: Ill accept the AOPA's opinion about small aircraft as soon as you start accepting the NRA's position on firearms..... Deal? Many AOPA members are no where near able to own their own aircraft. It is the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Assoc. My wife and I drive old vehicles so that we can afford to fly a little each month. One car payment plus the increased insurance cost (liability only on our old vehicles) is enough to alow me to fly a few hours a month. I would wager that you make more than I do. I understand the publics view of pilots as rich, but I as do many fall into the middle to lower middle class of income. I do consider myself rich, just not in a monetary way. James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #124 September 28, 2011 QuoteMany AOPA members are no where near able to own their own aircraft. It is the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Assoc. My wife and I drive old vehicles so that we can afford to fly a little each month. One car payment plus the increased insurance cost (liability only on our old vehicles) is enough to alow me to fly a few hours a month. I would wager that you make more than I do. I understand the publics view of pilots as rich, but I as do many fall into the middle to lower middle class of income. I do consider myself rich, just not in a monetary way. I have a pilots license. The point is that he discounts the NRA, yet wants to claim the AOPA is a good source. And the public does see pilots as rich, just as anyone that has "fun money" is rich. But lets face it, Kallend has a "fun" car and a Mooney... according to the majority of Americans... He is "rich". So I am merely pointing out his hypocrisy of: NRA = Bad source AOPA = Good source And The "rich" should pay taxes... Just not this one since it will affect me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #125 September 28, 2011 Quote Quote ...WIN-WIN for YOU and YOU alone. .... Yes, that's why I support Universal Healthcare - it's all about me... Well, so long as you have the insurance that you don't provide your employees, anyway.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
