frequentfaller 0 #1 September 23, 2011 The finding would seem to challenge Albert Einstein's special theory of relativity, and the long-established law of physics that nothing can exceed the speed of light. http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/23/world/europe/switzerland-science/index.html?&hpt=hp_c2Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 September 23, 2011 It's premature to make that statement. Much more work would need to be done to confirm that.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #3 September 23, 2011 QuoteIt's premature to make that statement. Much more work would need to be done to confirm that. Actually, Paul, that statement is spot on. That finding _seems_ to challenge relativity. That kinda means that they need to confirm things, you know...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #4 September 23, 2011 This is pretty cool. But I wonder whether neutrinos can convey information. I'll definitely be following this. It's fascinating. And cheers to the scientists for saying it needs to be confirmed. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bertt 0 #5 September 23, 2011 Can neutrinos convey information? Absolutely. A neutrino burst could be short or long, with spaces in between, like Morse code. And with the Neutrino Signaling Device, you can get information 60 billionths of a second before your friends.You don't have to outrun the bear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #6 September 23, 2011 What's the big deal? So we change E=MC^2 to E=MN^2 I think the Swiss clocks finally lost some time and they can't find it. Maybe VB has been screwing around again. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #7 September 23, 2011 I was referring to your thread title.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #8 September 23, 2011 Perhaps light was just having a bad day. If the effect is real, I'm surprised MINOS at Fermilab hasn't seen it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #9 September 23, 2011 I agree with Quade. CERN has a WAYS to go before they can adamantly determine if neutrinos are truly faster than the speed of light. Not saying it cant be done, but much more emperical evidence and testing needs to be performed to be certain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #10 September 23, 2011 >Can neutrinos convey information? Absolutely. I wouldn't be 100% sure of that. There are other entities in physics (wave-group velocities for example) that can exceed the speed of light - but cannot carry any information. If this turns out to be a similar phenomena there may be no way to encode information in the stream. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #11 September 23, 2011 Quote Perhaps light was just having a bad day. If the effect is real, I'm surprised MINOS at Fermilab hasn't seen it. A team at Fermilab had similar faster-than-light results in 2007. But that experiment had such a large margin of error that it undercut its scientific significance. http://www.toledoblade.com/Energy/2011/09/23/European-scientists-claim-neutrinos-traveled-faster-than-speed-of-light.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #12 September 23, 2011 CERN is on borrowed time, they are running out of funding and interest. This it just a "hey look at me" by them once again, a couple months ago they did the same thing releasing a report that they found the GOD particle the higgs. A couple days later after peer review of their findings...oops my bad it was a false. I bet in a couple days they are going to say it was a false detector, or something. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #13 September 23, 2011 Actually a technician published on a blog that there was some results that indicated a Higgs. The press then announced that CERN had found it. If I recall correctly the scientists quickly quashed that notion. It will be a great shame if CERN shuts down due to funding. Another area for the Chinese to overtake the west perhaps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #14 September 23, 2011 QuoteSher also mentions a third option: that the measurement is correct. Some theories posit that there are extra, hidden dimensions beyond the familiar four (three of space, one of time). It's possible that the speedy neutrinos tunnel through these extra dimensions, reducing the distance they have to travel to get to the target. This would explain the measurement without requiring the speed of light to be broken. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20957-dimensionhop-may-allow-neutrinos-to-cheat-light-speed.htmlstay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #15 September 23, 2011 Quote Perhaps light was just having a bad day.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #16 September 23, 2011 The neutrino was using blades so it doesn't count.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #17 September 23, 2011 Quote It will be a great shame if CERN shuts down due to funding. +1We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #18 September 23, 2011 QuoteThe neutrino was using blades so it doesn't count. Those neutrinos are so fast they can flip the light off and be in bed before it gets dark. Double (maybe even triple) entendre intended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #19 September 23, 2011 Quote>Can neutrinos convey information? Absolutely. I wouldn't be 100% sure of that. There are other entities in physics (wave-group velocities for example) that can exceed the speed of light - but cannot carry any information. If this turns out to be a similar phenomena there may be no way to encode information in the stream. If it can be switched on and off, information can be encoded. I've pondered the possibilities of this for decades and what it would mean in terms of communications and sending messages to ourselves from the future. It's a fascinating topic, but I'm afraid we're a hell of a long way from even confirming the existence of such a thing. I wrote a short story a couple decades about it and a screenplay a few years ago. Coincidentally the discovery in those fictional stories came from neutrino research. I'm kind of happy that if this shows even the least amount of promise of being true, I was able to make the leap in my head of how that might go down. I might also add that if this does turn out to be true, the US needs to hop on the research as quickly as possible because the ramifications are both wonderful and incredibly frightening.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #20 September 23, 2011 >If it can be switched on and off, information can be encoded. Yes. And since you can modulate the RF energy of an EM wave, you can encode information in its wave group, and the wave group can have a group velocity faster than light. But the information cannot. >I've pondered the possibilities of this for decades and what it would mean in >terms of communications and sending messages to ourselves from the future. Sending information faster than light does not imply the ability to send information backwards in time. (We can always, of course, send information forward in time, and a faster-than-light communications system would allow us to do that more effectively.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #21 September 23, 2011 QuoteSending information faster than light does not imply the ability to send information backwards in time. I strongly disagree. I'm working right now so I can't really steal enough time between renders to go in much detail right now, but I'm more than willing explain my reasoning later tonight.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #22 September 23, 2011 QuoteSending information faster than light does not imply the ability to send information backwards in time. it increases the possibility...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #23 September 23, 2011 QuoteIt's premature to make that statement. Much more work would need to be done to confirm that. nah, we got enough evidence to convict. Let's try it in Texas so we can be sure to get a death sentence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #24 September 23, 2011 Remember how hard it was to make the trains run on time in Italy. Why does anyone trust them to get neutrinos to arrive on time?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #25 September 23, 2011 QuoteRemember how hard it was to make the trains run on time in Italy. Why does anyone trust them to get neutrinos to arrive on time? My guess is that when all is said and done, they will discover that somewhere between the design and building of their facility they didn't account for a length of cable that got shortened by only a few feet. That, or their clocks are off.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
