JohnRich 4 #26 October 1, 2011 QuoteSame as you....by your own words, you favor the death penalty in Texas but abhor it when it happens in another country. You appear to be complaining about Iran executing someone and at the same time defending Texas doing it. It's conflicting and confusing as to what you really are trying to say. The only reason you're confused is because you're ignoring the REASON they are being executed. You can't take that out of the equation. It has nothing to do with different countries. Heinous murders - death penalty okay. Preaching - death penalty NOT okay. Regardless of what country they're in. The fact that you consider them all the same is what's conflicting. QuoteThanks for you PM, though. You deserved it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #27 October 1, 2011 OK, John. And no, I didn't deserve your nastygram. But I did get a chuckle out of it. It said a lot about you and your arrogant intolerance of others beliefs. Say good night, GracieMy reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #28 October 1, 2011 QuoteYou sure seem to know a whole lot about what Liberals think. It's relatively quite easy, actually...liberal or conservative. It's the independants that tend to be rather ambiguious....Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #29 October 1, 2011 Quote Quote You sure seem to know a whole lot about what Liberals think. It's relatively quite easy, actually...liberal or conservative. It's the independants that tend to be rather ambiguious.... Well, easy for you maybe. I all cornfused. One mind-reader tells me I'm a liberal, another tells me I'm a conservative, one tells me I'm an asshole, one tells me it's time to wake up and exit the plane. Hell, I just don't know WHAT to think....any other mind-readers out there willing to help? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #30 October 1, 2011 You're just cool fuckin' cool pops...fuckin' cool man...no worries. Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 362 #31 October 1, 2011 QuoteApparently many people put no limits at all on this cultural relativism idea - anything goes! And the same folks have no balls for simply standing up against what's just plain wrong.Well John, here's one "liberal" who would choose your door #2 ("Their law is wrong; no one deserves to be executed for speaking their religious views.") As a point of principle I support laws that tend to maximize freedom; though I know you and I might differ from time to time about how to maximize freedom, I suspect 95% of the time we would be in agreement. The question is, in this case how do you propose to "stand up against what's just plain wrong"? Diplomatic protest (which is being done)? Send emails to Immadinnerjacket? Put together a commando team, sneak into Iran, and rescue the good pastor, hopefully killing mass quantities of Iranian guards in the process? Persuade our government to invade yet another country, so as to spread our principles by force instead of by example and reasonable argument? What course of action appeals to you, John? You rail against "cultural relativism", but there is a parallel problem with "cultural absolutism". If you are entitled to believe in your preferred set of cultural (and moral) values, are other people not entitled to believe in theirs? And if those "other people" happen to be a distinct nation, what does it mean to be a nation if outsiders seek to use force to change their values? Wouldn't that mean that entities that disagree with our values and use force (terrorism) to impose their values are in a sense justified? Really, although it might seem "weak" to you, all we can do is protest, seek to persuade through "diplomatic means" (made tougher with Iran because we don't have diplomatic relations), and refuse to trade with nations whose behavior appalls us. Actual armed conflict should be reserved to cases where other countries have initiated violent conflict with us. The good pastor apparently knowingly violated an unjust law, aware of the possible consequences. He is obviously a man of principle, willing to stand up as a martyr if necessary to affect change in his country. We should support him in those ways that are consistent with our own principles, and that are most likely to result in real, lasting change in the ideas that prevail in Iran (within the government at any rate, I suspect the values of the people may be more "liberal). Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #32 October 1, 2011 Okay, I have not dug into this too deeply, but Iran has apparently decided not to execute this guy for religious reasons. They do, however, intend to execute him for rape. There is a bit of an Alice in Wonderland quality to the Iranian system of justice - such as it is. Call me a cynic, but something seems odd with a case where they conveniently have this guy dead to rights for rape. Maybe they wanted to execute him without embarrassing him, so they charged him with being apostate and left out mention of the rape until everyone made a fuss. Yeah, that could happen. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #33 October 1, 2011 QuoteCall me a cynic, but something seems odd with a case where they conveniently have this guy dead to rights for rape. Perhaps if he wanted to emulate an American pastor, he felt he needed to fully commit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #34 October 2, 2011 Quote Quote Call me a cynic, but something seems odd with a case where they conveniently have this guy dead to rights for rape. Perhaps if he wanted to emulate an American pastor, he felt he needed to fully commit. Dang, Andy! You present yourself as a legal go-to guy but in my estimation you really missed your calling as a stand-up comedian.a I find it hard to laugh at that joke but OTOH, I find it very hard not to. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
