nigel99 569
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jclalor 12
I was wondering why this thread was so small, and then I realized...
QuoteI was wondering why this thread was so small, and then I realized...
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."
kallend 2,106
Quote
Plenty of controlled studies showing that prayer is useless in healing the sick. PLACEBO works far better.
For those who know God and pray utilizing the power of His Spirit, prayer has a 100% success rate in healing a broken spirit.
You have any controlled, double blind experimental data to back that claim?
We KNOW Placebo works in some 20-40% of cases (depending on the disease).
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 2,106
QuoteQuoteQuotePLACEBO the wonder drug seems to have a rather better cure rate than prayer. Works in about 35% of people (Beecher HK; "The powerful placebo". J Am Med Assoc 159 (17): 1602–6. PMID 13271123.)
The power of the mind is amazing.
How many of your 35% were non-religious?
How many of your 35% were religious?
How many of your 35% also prayed?
How many of your 35% did not pray?
How many of your 35% were religiophobes?Zing. Good comeback Andy.
But you forgot to ask who they prayed to.
In 19th Century Galton made the first statistical analysis of third-party prayer effectiveness. He hypothesized that if prayer was effective, members of the British Royal Family would live longer than average, given that thousands prayed for their well-being every Sunday. He found no correlation.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
champu 1
Quotebut anyway, how many people really would convert if presented with a regenerated limb account? I bet none. The hardened would look for natural causes, maybe touting some unlocked gene theory, or simple case of mistaken identity, or plain fraud.
The "hardened"? Does that make theists the "softened"?
And I wouldn't take that bet. The idea of basing your world view on an "account" or collection thereof is exactly what turns critical thinkers off to most flavors of religion in the first place. In any event, analyzing observations and getting to the bottom of them is a great way to make a living, as is selling hope to people via fanciful hypotheticals like the above. To each their own.
wolfriverjoe 1,523
QuoteIn 19th Century Galton made the first statistical analysis of third-party prayer effectiveness. He hypothesized that if prayer was effective, members of the British Royal Family would live longer than average, given that thousands prayed for their well-being every Sunday. He found no correlation.
Well, considering that the 19th century was in the midst (albeit towards the end) of the British Empire, I would think that millions across the world were praying for their demise.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy
"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo
"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo
jakee 1,563
QuoteIn 19th Century Galton made the first statistical analysis of third-party prayer effectiveness. He hypothesized that if prayer was effective, members of the British Royal Family would live longer than average, given that thousands prayed for their well-being every Sunday. He found no correlation.
But was there a correlation regarding how often they died on a sunday?
Didn't think of that, eh, you so called academic!
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
billvon 3,072
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>edit: but anyway, how many people really would convert if presented with
>a regenerated limb account?
Probably the same number as the number of religious who would abandon their faith if they prayed REALLY hard for God to grow their arm back, but didn't.
>a regenerated limb account?
Probably the same number as the number of religious who would abandon their faith if they prayed REALLY hard for God to grow their arm back, but didn't.
lewmonst 0
QuoteQuoteYou might enjoy this...
They have a complex relationship.
oh get real.
http://www.exitshot.com
jakee 1,563
QuoteQuoteQuoteYou might enjoy this...
They have a complex relationship.
oh get real.
Touche! I didn't think that pun could get any worse
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
kallend 2,106
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYou might enjoy this...
They have a complex relationship.
oh get real.
Touche! I didn't think that pun could get any worse
A beer for the first pun on "quarternion".
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Coreece 190
QuoteI was wondering why this thread was so small, and then I realized...
Ya, well the original thread had like 20+ pages that got deleted because Jakee couldn't control himself and called Jay a devious little twerp after BV gave a warning...not sure why the PA's weren't just deleted instead of the entire thread.
Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...
jaybird18c 24
Quote...that may have missed it last time.
10 Questions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&feature=related
QuoteSimple Question: Why, if God is omnipotent, never , ever in all Bible was a case of an amputation healed? Except the ear that Jesus put it back. I m talking about a missing limb that Jesus or someone could have make it to grow back?
Your question seems to merely be a very specific re-articulation of the general argument against God due to the existence of evil. Formally restating your argument:
1. An omnipotent God would heal amputees.
2. Amputees are not healed.
3. Therefore, an omnipotent God does not exist.
You could just as easily replace the major premise with anything else unpleasant: why do people lose limbs in the first place? The ultimate question you’re really asking is Why Does God’s Creation Include Death and Suffering? If you already believe that flaws in the world disprove God, then naming any flaw that God doesn’t fix—or any good deed God doesn’t do—will just reaffirm your perspective. But once you understand that the problems in this world are a result of sin—tracing back to the Fall in Genesis 3—we can reconcile the existence of a perfectly good and loving God with the existence of death and suffering. The Curse is actually the punishment for sin necessitated by God’s role as perfect Judge. Knowing that, it is nonsensical to blame God for the consequences of our own sin.
Answering your question completely requires a few tangential comments:
• Miracles aren’t a grab-bag of goodies for us to enjoy; rather, God uses miracles in particular points of time for very specific purposes. God doesn't need to prove Himself to us (we’re on trial, not Him), nor does He “need” to bless us. When He does bless us, it is entirely out of mercy.
• God has done greater works than restoring limbs. If He created the entire universe out of nothing, spoke all plants and animals into existence, sculpted and breathed life into the first two humans, and raised His Son from death, it is clear that He has the power to heal amputees if and when it is His will.
• If there is no God, why should we care if people have lost limbs? To borrow from C. S. Lewis, in a truly godless world, amputations wouldn’t be “good” or “bad”; they would simply be, a fact of life no different from a tree shedding leaves. Attacking theism on a moral basis undermines the argument.
• You qualify your own question with “[e]xcept the ear that Jesus put it back.” You may as well ask, “If God is all-powerful, why did He never part the Red Sea—except for that one time in Exodus?”1 And not only is your argument qualified; it is also, essentially, an argument from silence. Even if the Bible doesn’t record the healing of an amputee, that doesn’t mean God never has.
• So far we have conceded your point that, other than the scene in Luke 22, “never, ever in all Bible was a case of an amputation healed.” But is this so? First, it may be that there was no biblical Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic word for “amputee”2; it is possible that some passages referring to individuals as “lame” or “crippled” (Matthew 15:30, 21:14; John 5:2–9a) are actually referring to those who had lost limbs. Besides, how is healing a totally useless limb any less miraculous than restoring an amputated limb? Second, because of the nature of leprosy, the healings of lepers in the Bible actually does imply the restoration of some body parts, such as fingers.
Why Won’t God Heal Amputees?
jaybird18c 24
I want to know why He won't fix my receding hairline and bald spot.
kallend 2,106
QuoteI want to know why He won't fix my receding hairline and bald spot.
I can think of several possibilities. The most likely by far is that he doesn't exist.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
jaybird18c 24
QuoteQuoteI want to know why He won't fix my receding hairline and bald spot.
I can think of several possibilities. The most likely by far is that he doesn't exist.
Or it could be that God is more concerned with our righteousness and where we will spend eternity than all of the other trivial things we come up with.
jaybird18c 24
Atheists are in desperate need of new material. The topic of this thread is ridiculous.
QuoteAtheists are in desperate need of new material. The topic of this thread is ridiculous.
Here you go:
http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/
You won't read it though...it'd make your kool-aid taste bad.
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."
maadmax 0
Atheists are in desperate need of new material. The topic of this thread is ridiculousHere you go:
http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/
You won't read it though...it'd make your kool-aid taste bad.
http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/
You won't read it though...it'd make your kool-aid taste bad.
Genesis along with the rest of the Bible has the answer to the only question that really matters.
How to resolve the depravity of man and know the God of our creation.
QuoteAtheists are in desperate need of new material. The topic of this thread is ridiculousHere you go:
http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/
You won't read it though...it'd make your kool-aid taste bad.
Genesis along with the rest of the Bible has the answer to the only question that really matters.
How to resolve the depravity of man and know the God of our creation.
Fables and fairy tales. Max. There's no truth in Genisis. You taking meaning from it is about you(and your indoctrination) and not about how "special" the bible is.
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."
jclalor 12
QuoteQuoteI want to know why He won't fix my receding hairline and bald spot.
That's a great question, The bible promises that if you just ask, you shall receive.
QuotePrayer Promises
Jer 1:12........ "I am ready to perform My Word."
Jn 16:24....... "Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full."
Mt 21:22........."...whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."
Jer 33:3......... "Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things..."
Jn 14:14........ "If you ask anything in my name, I will do it."
Jn 16:23........ "...whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you."
Jas 5:16........ "The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."
Job 22:27...... "You will make your prayer to Him, He will hear you..."
1Jn 5:14........ "Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us."
1Jn 5:15........ "And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him."
Jn 14:13........ "And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son."
Isa 55:11....... "So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it."
Jn 15:7.......... "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you."
Mt 18:18........ "Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Mt 18:19........ "Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven."
Jn 15:16........ "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you."
Jer 29:12........ "Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you."
Isa 65:24........ "It shall come to pass that before they call, I will answer, and while they are speaking I will hear."
Ps 91:15........ "He shall call upon Me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him and honor him."
Ps 141:2......... "Let my prayer be set before You as incense, the lifting of my hands as the evening sacrifice."
jakee 1,563
QuoteOr it could be that God is more concerned with our righteousness and where we will spend eternity than all of the other trivial things we come up with.
God's handiwork is trivial?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
But you forgot to ask who they prayed to.
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