billvon 2,991
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rushmc 23
Quote>The wind companies have shit in their own nest around here
I guess that's why installed capacity has been increasing an average of 30% a year over the past decade.
>Damn straight not in my back yard!
Yep. The cry of every NIMBY everywhere. "Someone else do it!"
>NOTE: there are many non-farmers who home sites are becoming unmarketable
>because of these monstrosities
I bet these people would do almost anything to have homes in your so-called "unmarketable" sites:
===================
The TVA Kingston Fossil Plant coal fly ash slurry spill occurred just before 1 a.m. on Monday December 22, 2008, when an ash dike ruptured at an 84-acre (0.34 km2) solid waste containment area at the Tennessee Valley Authority's Kingston Fossil Plant in Roane County, Tennessee, USA. 1.1 billion US gallons (4,200,000 m3) of coal fly ash slurry was released. . . .
The spill caused a mudflow wave of water and ash that covered 12 homes, pushing one entirely off its foundation, rendering three uninhabitable, and caused some damage to 42 residential properties. It also washed out a road, ruptured a major gas line, obstructed a rail line, downed trees, broke a water main, and destroyed power lines.
The spill covered surrounding land with up to six feet of sludge. The EPA first estimated that the spill would take four to six weeks to clean up; however, Chandra Taylor, the staff attorney for the Southern Environmental Law Center, said the cleanup could take months and possibly years. As of June 2009, six months following the spill, only 3% of the spill had been cleaned and is now estimated to cost between $675 and $975 million to clean, according to the TVA.
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One acident (or failure of a company) does not make your position more solid.
Damns have caused more damage and death than this ONE example you give
Going to get rid of them too?
And the capacity growth is ONLY because the gov subsidies
Unles extended the growth will slow or end at the end of 2012
The wind farms were allowed here in good faith
Nothing prepared the locals for what they are going through now
So NIMBY? cant claim that here cause they are already here
There will only be more on lands that have already been leased cause no one else here will give the SOB's any more land than they all ready have
Waste of money and land
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
[Reply]NIMBYs are, unfortunately, a big factor in our power decisions.
Just as a curiosity, what is unfortunate about NIMBY? I think it's one of the great things about private property ownership. Who wants a freeway running through their backyard? Or a runway being built that will have his house subject to jet noise at all hours?
NIMBY is private right taking precedence over public opinion. NIMBYism always sucks until it's your house that will become much less of a lovely place to be.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
kallend 2,027
QuoteQuote>The wind companies have shit in their own nest around here
I guess that's why installed capacity has been increasing an average of 30% a year over the past decade.
>Damn straight not in my back yard!
Yep. The cry of every NIMBY everywhere. "Someone else do it!"
>NOTE: there are many non-farmers who home sites are becoming unmarketable
>because of these monstrosities
I bet these people would do almost anything to have homes in your so-called "unmarketable" sites:
===================
The TVA Kingston Fossil Plant coal fly ash slurry spill occurred just before 1 a.m. on Monday December 22, 2008, when an ash dike ruptured at an 84-acre (0.34 km2) solid waste containment area at the Tennessee Valley Authority's Kingston Fossil Plant in Roane County, Tennessee, USA. 1.1 billion US gallons (4,200,000 m3) of coal fly ash slurry was released. . . .
The spill caused a mudflow wave of water and ash that covered 12 homes, pushing one entirely off its foundation, rendering three uninhabitable, and caused some damage to 42 residential properties. It also washed out a road, ruptured a major gas line, obstructed a rail line, downed trees, broke a water main, and destroyed power lines.
The spill covered surrounding land with up to six feet of sludge. The EPA first estimated that the spill would take four to six weeks to clean up; however, Chandra Taylor, the staff attorney for the Southern Environmental Law Center, said the cleanup could take months and possibly years. As of June 2009, six months following the spill, only 3% of the spill had been cleaned and is now estimated to cost between $675 and $975 million to clean, according to the TVA.
=======================
One acident (or failure of a company) does not make your position more solid.
Damns have caused more damage and death than this ONE example you give
Damn coal mines?
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Amazon 7
You dont really expect Marc to look up the VERY long and devastating list of coal mine disasters, coal mine deaths, coal mine pollution, and the vast areas of environmental degradation of the land water and air in the last 250 years worldwide. I wonder what the total death toll from his favorite industry REALLLY is... MILLIONS would not be a stretch from direct and indirect human lives lost.
kallend 2,027
QuoteQuoteQuoteGonna take it back from eveybodya?
Farmers? Solar? Wind? All of them?
Well, I'm only talking about energy subsidies, but yeah, take it back from everyone. Ethanol, solar, wind, coal, oil, nuclear.
My point is, it is unfair to complain about subsidies for emerging technologies but be okay with past subsidies (and continuing, completely ridiculous subsidies) to established technologies.
And you point is well taken
However
Solar and wind can not turn profits even with subsidies. At least coal, gas and oil will survive with out gov help
Those others can not
Stopped at a wind turbine yesterday to see what kind of noise it made.
Unfortunately a freight train (coal) was passing at the time, and the noise it made completely drowned out the sound of the turbine.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
billvon 2,991
>Just as a curiosity, what is unfortunate about NIMBY?
It replaces logical decisionmaking with emotion, which overall is unfortunate. It means that nuclear power plants are not built within 500 miles of someone's home while a research reactor operates a few miles from the person.
>Who wants a freeway running through their backyard?
Well, no one; who wants to lose their back yard? (You understand, of course, that "their back yard" has almost nothing to do with NIMBYs; they protest things that are hundreds of miles away.)
It replaces logical decisionmaking with emotion, which overall is unfortunate. It means that nuclear power plants are not built within 500 miles of someone's home while a research reactor operates a few miles from the person.
>Who wants a freeway running through their backyard?
Well, no one; who wants to lose their back yard? (You understand, of course, that "their back yard" has almost nothing to do with NIMBYs; they protest things that are hundreds of miles away.)
rushmc 23
Quote>Still waiting for the obit that shows that power plant emissions killed someone
============
HSPH Report Quantifies Health Impact of Air Pollution From Two Massachusetts Power Plants
For immediate release: May 04, 2000
Boston, MA--Air pollution from two Massachusetts coal-fired power plants contributes to particulate matter, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide and ozone exposure over a large region. Using a sophisticated model of how particulate matter and its precursors are dispersed in the atmosphere, Harvard School of Public Health scientists Jonathan Levy and John D. Spengler have calculated exposures to 32 million residents living in New England, eastern New York and New Jersey from these older plants.
Their report estimated that current emissions from the Salem Harbor and Brayton Point power plants can be linked to more than 43,000 asthma attacks and nearly 300,000 incidents of upper respiratory symptoms per year in the region. The study also estimated that 159 premature deaths per year could be attributed to this pollution.
The health risks are greatest for people living closer to the plants. Twenty percent of the total health impact occurs on 8 percent of the population that lives within 30 miles of the facilities.
============
Here is another study and comments
http://junkscience.com/2011/11/07/huge-study-air-pollution-asthma-epidemic-link-in-tatters/
Not air polution?
Hmmmmmm
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
DaVinci 0
QuoteStopped at a wind turbine yesterday to see what kind of noise it made.
Unfortunately a freight train (coal) was passing at the time, and the noise it made completely drowned out the sound of the turbine.
A good point... but you must admit that a train does not run by 24/7 and a wind turbine could.
BTW, I am all FOR alternative energy methods to include wind and solar.... But you must admit my point.
rhaig 0
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2058342/Wind-farms-disrupt-military-radar-inhibit-weather-tracking.html
This was interesting... isolated effect, and they've found a workaround, but I hadn't heard about it until recently.
This was interesting... isolated effect, and they've found a workaround, but I hadn't heard about it until recently.
--
Rob
Rob
I guess that's why installed capacity has been increasing an average of 30% a year over the past decade.
>Damn straight not in my back yard!
Yep. The cry of every NIMBY everywhere. "Someone else do it!"
>NOTE: there are many non-farmers who home sites are becoming unmarketable
>because of these monstrosities
I bet these people would do almost anything to have homes in your so-called "unmarketable" sites:
===================
The TVA Kingston Fossil Plant coal fly ash slurry spill occurred just before 1 a.m. on Monday December 22, 2008, when an ash dike ruptured at an 84-acre (0.34 km2) solid waste containment area at the Tennessee Valley Authority's Kingston Fossil Plant in Roane County, Tennessee, USA. 1.1 billion US gallons (4,200,000 m3) of coal fly ash slurry was released. . . .
The spill caused a mudflow wave of water and ash that covered 12 homes, pushing one entirely off its foundation, rendering three uninhabitable, and caused some damage to 42 residential properties. It also washed out a road, ruptured a major gas line, obstructed a rail line, downed trees, broke a water main, and destroyed power lines.
The spill covered surrounding land with up to six feet of sludge. The EPA first estimated that the spill would take four to six weeks to clean up; however, Chandra Taylor, the staff attorney for the Southern Environmental Law Center, said the cleanup could take months and possibly years. As of June 2009, six months following the spill, only 3% of the spill had been cleaned and is now estimated to cost between $675 and $975 million to clean, according to the TVA.
=======================
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