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I think Kallend became an Atheist after many years of cheering on the Cubs.
NWFlyer 2
Slow, gradual process. I was raised in a mostly non-religious household. We'd go to church from time to time but it was mostly a social thing - major holidays, or because a family friend or extended family member wanted us to go. I mostly felt awkward and uncomfortable because the church setting was unfamiliar to me and as a pretty shy & awkward kid, I was always worried about inadvertently doing something wrong that would call attention to myself. So I was mostly quiet and polite and tried to stay invisible.
I grew to be pretty cynical about organized religion, but hadn't rejected the concept of a god. In my 20s I actually decided to give church a try - kind of thinking "I shouldn't reject out of hand something I haven't given a fair shake," and a friend and I went to a couple different Presbyterian churches fairly regularly (couple times a month, anyway) for a year or so. Throughout that whole time, I thought that it was a nice experience; a chance to sit quietly and reflect in a pretty setting, hear a (sometimes) good speaker talk about a particular moral issue, and listen to some nice music. Other than that, though, I didn't get anything out of it. I didn't suddenly believe. I didn't feel the presence of god. I mostly thought "these seem like nice people but I don't get what they're getting out of this."
So I stopped going to church, with the rare exception of weddings & funerals, or an occasional service with my parents when I visit them, or touring churches as architectural/historical sites when I'm traveling.
I guess I trucked along as your basic agnostic after that, till I started to really think about it and challenge myself to understand why I might still doubt. I read a lot and asked myself some key questions. And somewhere along the line, I was able to admit to myself that I truly didn't believe in god.
Now, as I said in the other thread, I'm about as apathetic an atheist as there is. I don't try to convince anyone to see it my way, and I'm all about mutual tolerance; please don't try to convince me to believe what you believe, because I'm not going to try to convince you to believe what I (don't) believe. I will attend religious services like weddings and funerals with respect because it's not about me and my (non) belief, it's about the person or people being celebrated. I dig the heck out of gospel music and some other music with religious themes. I appreciate a lot of the art and architecture that's been created in the name of religion. Doesn't mean I'm not still varying between skeptical, cynical, and angry about some of the crap that is perpetuated by organized religion and believers, but I can appreciate the good stuff it's brought, too.
I resent any implication that because I don't believe in a god, that I am also amoral. Far from it; I've got a strong moral compass that guides me day-to-day in evaluating right and wrong. It's got no origins in religious teaching, nor is it managed through religious teaching.
As for "how it was received" ... as I mentioned I'm pretty passive so it's not like I went to my family and said "Mom, Dad, I've got something to tell you - I'm an atheist." Not that I think my parents would care one way or another, the topic just hasn't come up. I've got extended family that's pretty deeply religious, but I'm not super-close to them, so it's easiest to just keep the topic of religion out of the few conversations we do have.
I grew to be pretty cynical about organized religion, but hadn't rejected the concept of a god. In my 20s I actually decided to give church a try - kind of thinking "I shouldn't reject out of hand something I haven't given a fair shake," and a friend and I went to a couple different Presbyterian churches fairly regularly (couple times a month, anyway) for a year or so. Throughout that whole time, I thought that it was a nice experience; a chance to sit quietly and reflect in a pretty setting, hear a (sometimes) good speaker talk about a particular moral issue, and listen to some nice music. Other than that, though, I didn't get anything out of it. I didn't suddenly believe. I didn't feel the presence of god. I mostly thought "these seem like nice people but I don't get what they're getting out of this."
So I stopped going to church, with the rare exception of weddings & funerals, or an occasional service with my parents when I visit them, or touring churches as architectural/historical sites when I'm traveling.
I guess I trucked along as your basic agnostic after that, till I started to really think about it and challenge myself to understand why I might still doubt. I read a lot and asked myself some key questions. And somewhere along the line, I was able to admit to myself that I truly didn't believe in god.
Now, as I said in the other thread, I'm about as apathetic an atheist as there is. I don't try to convince anyone to see it my way, and I'm all about mutual tolerance; please don't try to convince me to believe what you believe, because I'm not going to try to convince you to believe what I (don't) believe. I will attend religious services like weddings and funerals with respect because it's not about me and my (non) belief, it's about the person or people being celebrated. I dig the heck out of gospel music and some other music with religious themes. I appreciate a lot of the art and architecture that's been created in the name of religion. Doesn't mean I'm not still varying between skeptical, cynical, and angry about some of the crap that is perpetuated by organized religion and believers, but I can appreciate the good stuff it's brought, too.
I resent any implication that because I don't believe in a god, that I am also amoral. Far from it; I've got a strong moral compass that guides me day-to-day in evaluating right and wrong. It's got no origins in religious teaching, nor is it managed through religious teaching.
As for "how it was received" ... as I mentioned I'm pretty passive so it's not like I went to my family and said "Mom, Dad, I've got something to tell you - I'm an atheist." Not that I think my parents would care one way or another, the topic just hasn't come up. I've got extended family that's pretty deeply religious, but I'm not super-close to them, so it's easiest to just keep the topic of religion out of the few conversations we do have.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
nanook 1
QuoteI think Kallend became an Atheist after many years of cheering on the Cubs.
Yup. That will do it. I agree. Cubs fan for years here.
_____________________________
"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln
"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln
nanook 1
. . .but in seriousness.
I believe there are some people that cannot truly test their belief that there is a better place to go and a higher diety to answer after death as an athiest till they are faced with their own mortality on a regular basis. And i'm not talking about the simple act of hurling one's own self out of a plane. There is a phrase that is thrown out there. . ."there's no athiests in a foxhole". I've met many athiests who have been in that proverbial "foxhole" while I played "U. S. Army" in Iraq. They weren't S2 or HHC's. They were 2/502 and and 3ID 11B's and 25A's that played outside the wire on a regular basis. I played also. I didn't convert to Christ. I had my nightsweats the evening before the mission up Route Tampa/Irish as usual, and I faced my mortality regulary. This wasn't stubborness. I know that I would never know that I was dead. I would know nothing. The end. My worry was about my wife and daughter, not some silly day of reconing that is to become.
I never really believed. Just felt wrong for some reason. It was when I was older when I was able to research other literature, visit actual places in the Bible and talk to the locals of said area that had a different, if secular reasoning behind what was written in the books, that I realised the difference between the magical qualities of those who never been outside the Bible Belt with their belief and the locals who have lived many generations in on and around the magical areas described. Here, I learned that it was all crap.
And you know what? If someone else believes, I would never in my life try to take that away from them. I wouldn't argue against God existing. It's unethical to do this in my opinion. It doesn't take anything away from me. Hell, If my daughter takes up with religion, I would even support her. In the end, it doesn't hurt me.
I believe there are some people that cannot truly test their belief that there is a better place to go and a higher diety to answer after death as an athiest till they are faced with their own mortality on a regular basis. And i'm not talking about the simple act of hurling one's own self out of a plane. There is a phrase that is thrown out there. . ."there's no athiests in a foxhole". I've met many athiests who have been in that proverbial "foxhole" while I played "U. S. Army" in Iraq. They weren't S2 or HHC's. They were 2/502 and and 3ID 11B's and 25A's that played outside the wire on a regular basis. I played also. I didn't convert to Christ. I had my nightsweats the evening before the mission up Route Tampa/Irish as usual, and I faced my mortality regulary. This wasn't stubborness. I know that I would never know that I was dead. I would know nothing. The end. My worry was about my wife and daughter, not some silly day of reconing that is to become.
I never really believed. Just felt wrong for some reason. It was when I was older when I was able to research other literature, visit actual places in the Bible and talk to the locals of said area that had a different, if secular reasoning behind what was written in the books, that I realised the difference between the magical qualities of those who never been outside the Bible Belt with their belief and the locals who have lived many generations in on and around the magical areas described. Here, I learned that it was all crap.
And you know what? If someone else believes, I would never in my life try to take that away from them. I wouldn't argue against God existing. It's unethical to do this in my opinion. It doesn't take anything away from me. Hell, If my daughter takes up with religion, I would even support her. In the end, it doesn't hurt me.
_____________________________
"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln
"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln
kallend 2,027
QuoteI think Kallend became an Atheist after many years of cheering on the Cubs.
I wouldn't go to any MLB game even if they gave me free tickets, free parking and free beer. Ditto for NBA.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
nanook 1
QuoteQuoteI think Kallend became an Atheist after many years of cheering on the Cubs.
I wouldn't go to any MLB game even if they gave me free tickets, free parking and free beer. Ditto for NBA.
NFL?
_____________________________
"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln
"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln
Zymurdoo 0
QuoteI see it like this. Deitys have the same amount of evidence of their existence as unicorns, boogie man, leprechauns, or any other fantasy creature. It's really hard for me to say there might possibly be a deity of any kind. But it is possible, sort of, just like it's possible that unicorns exist.
Leprechauns do exist.
Blue Skies, Soft Docks and Happy Landings!
CWR #23
(It's called CRW, add an e if you like, but I ain't calling it CFS. FU FAI!)
CWR #23
(It's called CRW, add an e if you like, but I ain't calling it CFS. FU FAI!)
Marinus 0
QuoteI rejected god because I couldn't square the idea of a good and all-powerful deity with a world in which little kids get cancer, and where earthquakes, floods, and other natural disasters kill thousands of innocent people, and leave countless others injured, homeless, and suffering. There is simply way too much misery and pain in this world, misery and pain that has nothing to do with human choices or actions, for me to believe in god.
The problem of evil isn't really an argument against the existence of god(s) it's an argument against the existence of a couple of specific gods. Nowhere in the job description it states that a god has to be good or even interested in humanity.
quade 4
QuoteNowhere in the job description it states that a god has to be good or even interested in humanity.
Assuming a god not described by the Old or New Testament. However, if you're talking about THAT god, it most definitely DOES come with the job description.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
Marinus 0
Let me quote myself:
Quoteit's an argument against the existence of a couple of specific gods.
The problem of evil is a good argument against (for example) Christianity...
happy now?
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