For the atheists...

[shropshire 0]

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Actually, God is good...perfectly good...all the time. Our problem is usually that we misunderstand what good is. Ultimately, it's based on His standard of righteousness and not our own.

How could you possibly know that?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[jaybird18c 24]

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Actually, God is good...perfectly good...all the time. Our problem is usually that we misunderstand what good is. Ultimately, it's based on His standard of righteousness and not our own.

How could you possibly know that?

Because it is in His very nature.
Psalm 119:68

[Meso 38]

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Because it is in His very nature.

The video I posted on the previous page is an intellectual discussion into why it makes no sense to believe that Gods nature is perfect despite what the bible says.

If Gods nature is always perfect, then why did his nature change in the New Testament? Why did things that were deemed right suddenly because wrong. The presence of Jesus should have no effect on Gods perfect nature, as if his nature was perfect there would be no need for change. Unless perfect is simply something that you attribute to any decision God makes.

[jakee 1,489]

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Actually, God is good...perfectly good...all the time.

Hmm, some new definition of good that involves not being nice and not being just.

Tell me more.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[pchapman 279]

I was lucky not to be indoctrinated as a kid. I went to church Christmas & Easter with my mom. While pleasant, it was more a social / cultural / tradition thing. I read bits of the tiny bible they (who?) handed out at school. Nothing was ever said against the existence of God, but God was never talked about either.

So I was able to come to my own understanding of God, and it all just seemed so silly.

There seemed to be no scientific need for God, nothing happening in the world where it looked like believing in God helped. The Christians had these bizarre ancient tales in some book that they keep arguing about and trying to understand. It seemed a bit of a scam, churches and kings telling people what to do in this life so they'd be better off in some later life that seems unprovable one way or another.

The organized churches really ruin the whole God thing. Catholicism has been mired in the dark ages when adjusting to modern society, and so many wars have been fought in the name of some God or other -- including some sect of Christians against another sect of Christians.

Another clincher for me was wondering why I should have been born one of the chosen ones. Yes I was lucky enough to be born in a stable first world democracy. But if there is a God, and just about every society has had a God, why was the locally favoured God (the Christian one) the only correct God, the one true God, and everyone else was going to hell? So all those people of other religions are inferior? Most people don't pick a religion because they've compared them and prefer one religion's value system. Physics wouldn't get far if people just believed the science their local ancestors believed.

It did take me a long time to give religion a little credit, in that in times of weakness and suffering and death, it is very convenient to believe in a god and something higher than oneself. It can be psychologically comforting, as humans can't deal with such things very well. But what you believe in when you are out of your mind with grief or on your deathbed isn't a good test of what you should believe in.

What Ron said in defence of religion works just as well against religion -- we have a strange sort of agreement there:

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the respondents rejected God and Christ because they did not need Him.

One can use God as a psychological crutch if that's useful, but that's no reason to truly believe in such a magical being, nor all the crap that's unfortunately associated with religion.

[jaybird18c 24]

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The video I posted on the previous page is an intellectual discussion into why it makes no sense to believe that Gods nature is perfect despite what the bible says.

Despite what the Bible says?? How would anyone ever know anything about the personal nature of God apart from His special revelation through scripture?

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If Gods nature is always perfect, then why did his nature change in the New Testament? Why did things that were deemed right suddenly because wrong. The presence of Jesus should have no effect on Gods perfect nature, as if his nature was perfect there would be no need for change. Unless perfect is simply something that you attribute to any decision God makes.

God's nature does not change. The God of the OT is the same God of the NT. The Bible is a "progressive revelation" of God's plan of salvation for His people. Shadowy representations in the OT are revealed more fully in the NT. The purpose of the Law in the OT is to point you to Christ. Jesus is the "perfect" representation of God's nature because it is the same. Everything "points" to Christ. God's uncompromising execution of justice in the OT is still going to take place. Jesus came in peace to save sinners in the NT. Judgment has been "postponed" but it will occur. The next time Jesus comes, He will come as Judge...and there will literally be hell to pay for those who do not know Him.

[Coreece 190]

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Our problem is usually that we misunderstand what good is.

The concept of good and evil seems to be somewhat subjective and, to the carnal mind, rather difficult to impart. I think a more practical measure to convey the idea would be to contrast the variance between pide and humility...tho I'll admit even the subtlties of pride seem to elude us at times. I suppose the most obvious of these (at least to others) would be the self-recognition/glorification of ones own humility...or...the sense of conceit from an exorbitant soliloquy of inordinate and pretentious words in received pronunciation.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[NWFlyer 2]

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I read bits of the tiny bible they (who?) handed out at school. Nothing was ever said against the existence of God, but God was never talked about either.

This reminded me that in my sophomore year honors English class in my public high school, we read the Bible (Old Testament) as literature. I think that we had to get our parents to sign a form saying they were okay with it (and we could have opted out if they weren't), but it was very much not religious teaching, but more the Bible as a written work and a cultural tome. This was back in 1985; such a classroom exercise today would probably be much more difficult; I feel like we've just become too polarized on the topic of religion to really explore it in an academic way (at least pre-college), which is a shame, because it really is an interesting and important part of history, literature, art, social sciences, etc.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[kallend 2,027]

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If God is in fact holy, then He must hate that which is unholy. If God is in fact just, then he must punish that which is unjust (sin).

If.

(Or, slightly less poetically, no.)

Ok..."If"...God does exist and you're judged when you die, will you be found innocent or guilty?

Which of the thousands of gods would that be.

There is exactly the same amount of evidence for the existence of each of them.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nigel99 473]

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If God is in fact holy, then He must hate that which is unholy. If God is in fact just, then he must punish that which is unjust (sin).

If.

(Or, slightly less poetically, no.)

Ok..."If"...God does exist and you're judged when you die, will you be found innocent or guilty?

Which of the thousands of gods would that be.

There is exactly the same amount of evidence for the existence of each of them.

Not true. I believe in Zeus and every time he gets pissed off with whoever it is that is responsible for lightening he proves to me that he exists.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[kallend 2,027]

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If God is in fact holy, then He must hate that which is unholy. If God is in fact just, then he must punish that which is unjust (sin).

If.

(Or, slightly less poetically, no.)

Ok..."If"...God does exist and you're judged when you die, will you be found innocent or guilty?

Which of the thousands of gods would that be.

There is exactly the same amount of evidence for the existence of each of them.

Not true. I believe in Zeus and every time he gets pissed off with whoever it is that is responsible for lightening he proves to me that he exists.

OK, but there are 45 other thunder gods - how do you know it's Zeus?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 800]

That's NOT "good".

[nigel99 473]

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If God is in fact holy, then He must hate that which is unholy. If God is in fact just, then he must punish that which is unjust (sin).

If.

(Or, slightly less poetically, no.)

Ok..."If"...God does exist and you're judged when you die, will you be found innocent or guilty?

Which of the thousands of gods would that be.

There is exactly the same amount of evidence for the existence of each of them.

Not true. I believe in Zeus and every time he gets pissed off with whoever it is that is responsible for lightening he proves to me that he exists.

OK, but there are 45 other thunder gods - how do you know it's Zeus?

Wow I didn't know that there were so many.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Marinus 0]

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Well, there's the first misconception.

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..and there's a second one.

And since you fail to provide arguments as to why those are misconceptions, I assume that's because you don't have any arguments.

[shropshire 0]

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Actually, God is good...perfectly good...all the time. Our problem is usually that we misunderstand what good is. Ultimately, it's based on His standard of righteousness and not our own.

How could you possibly know that?

Because it is in His very nature.
Psalm 119:68

That's really funny ... using the bible to prove the bible

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[normiss 800]

For some odd reason it has worked.
For thousands of years.
On millions of sheeple.

They even re-write it fairly regularly.

[maadmax 0]

One can use God as a psychological crutch if that's useful, but that's no reason to truly believe in such a magical being, nor all the crap that's unfortunately associated with religion.

[Coreece 190]

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OK, but there are 45 other thunder gods

We are not gods, we're simply training for armageddon...privately funded of course:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMDmGgl-FN4

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[stevebabin 0]

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The Christian God is supposed to be all good,

Well, there's the first misconception.

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so that makes the existence of undeserved evil, (like a toddler dying of AIDS in some godforsaken desert while crows are picking his /her eyes out) a rather big problem.

...and there's a second one.

The primary misconception is that god exists.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[kallend 2,027]

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If God is in fact holy, then He must hate that which is unholy. If God is in fact just, then he must punish that which is unjust (sin).

If.

(Or, slightly less poetically, no.)

Ok..."If"...God does exist and you're judged when you die, will you be found innocent or guilty?

Which of the thousands of gods would that be.

There is exactly the same amount of evidence for the existence of each of them.

Not true. I believe in Zeus and every time he gets pissed off with whoever it is that is responsible for lightening he proves to me that he exists.

OK, but there are 45 other thunder gods - how do you know it's Zeus?

Wow I didn't know that there were so many.

Hey, if you think that's a lot, you should check out fertility goddesses.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nigel99 473]

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Hey, if you think that's a lot, you should check out fertility goddesses.

Does that make sex more or less important than thunder? And why are they normally goddesses not gods?

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[kallend 2,027]

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Hey, if you think that's a lot, you should check out fertility goddesses.

Does that make sex more or less important than thunder?

Yes.

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And why are they normally goddesses not gods?

www.gotterdammerung.org/photo/travel/italy/pompeii/060925-164034%20The%20fertility%20god%20Priapus%20at%20the%20House%20of%20the%20Vettii.jpg

Even Viagra sounds like a goddess's name.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,489]

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Does that make sex more or less important than thunder?

More common, in most places!

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And why are they normally goddesses not gods?

Firstly I would imagine it's because women get pregnant and give birth.

Secondly, there are probably more fertility gods than you're aware of, it's just that in modern, prudish times people might be a bit embarrassed to talk about them, given that they generally involve numerous depictions of enormous hard ons.

(In ancient Greece, there was once a major political upheaval triggered by a wave of desecrations of the herms which used to stand outside every residence.)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Coreece 190]

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there are probably more fertility gods than you're aware of, it's just that in modern, prudish times people might be a bit embarrassed to talk about them, given that they generally involve numerous depictions of enormous hard ons.

This makes me wonder if Kokopelli was actually a snake charmer:

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/35056481/aview/_BpmRULwBmk___KGrHqUH_DkEu_I0IwUmBLsCwyZ7Cg___1.JPG

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[dorbie 0]

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He came to preach the truth to the poor is spirit; to set free those held in bondage to behavior stemming from defects of character; to open the eyes of those who are spiritually blind; to give freedom and hope to those who are under the control and subjugation of tyrannical power.

Simply put, the respondents rejected God and Christ because they did not need Him.

So you are saying that Atheists are stronger in spirit, have fewer defects in character are not as spiritually blind and are more free than the religious.

OK