dorbie 0 #201 October 29, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Basic human nature, flawed as it is, is still very interesting. According to the Christian view of how the world should be, human nature is indeed flawed, but then again, Christianity views lust, which is in fact rather essential to the survival of the species, also largely as a flaw. Quote Anyway, that aside, what does that make you if you tell lies or what would you call me if I told you a lie? Human? Really? So if I stood in front of you and told you a bold faced lie, you wouldn't think I was a liar? You'd be ok with it because, of course, it's only human nature. Wow! You are understanding. I guess you wouldn't take it personally if the salesman intentionally "mislead" you and it cost you money. I mean, it's only human nature. Must be alright. Not legally, of course, but morally. I guess, as long as you don't get caught. Have you ever told a lie? Don't bother answering you're human so we know the answer. In denying your true nature you're lying to yourself. Pretending you have some moral high ground over another poster because he told a truth about humans that you deny is preposterous, he's not the liar in this argument, he's the one speaking the cold hard truth. If your spouse asked you if their ass looked big in their pants you might not be forthcoming with your opinion. If someone with terminal cancer wanted the facts you might not "give it to them straight" if they were not psychologically able to handle it. If a stranger asks you how you're feeling you might say "great" even if that's not the case. There are a myriad of similar circumstances big and small. These are very different from criminal fraud and most adults can tell the difference unless their brain is poisoned with silly absolutist nonsense that we all know they cannot live up to. And no we don't need more lies about a god to put a band-aid on this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #202 October 29, 2011 OK, that wasn't very clear. I meant that Paul didn't see lust inside the bounds of marriage as a good thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #203 October 29, 2011 Quote Quote Second your misrepresentation of what I wrote Frustrating...in'it? You may wanna cut that out... Your misrepresentations are easily corrected and only undermine your position. I cannot correct your refusal to look at evidence or give the facts a fair hearing because it threatens your belief in the contents of a bronze aged book. Have a look at those videos. Then shoot for a substantive response. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO1a1Ek-HD0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi7rUyaPT-c Understand that these morphological differences are supported by the timeline of the appearance of these creatures in the fossil record AND the genetic mutation evidence from sequenced DNA in the modern creatures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #204 October 29, 2011 Quote Quote According to the Christian view of how the world should be, human nature is indeed flawed, but then again, Christianity views lust, which is in fact rather essential to the survival of the species, also largely as a flaw. Outside the bounds of marriage, yes. Lust is a strong motivator for many people getting married or getting into relationships that are a precursor to marriage. It is natural, it is intrinsic to the human reproduction. Saying it is wrong is utter nonsense. If couples weren't horny they'd take little interest in each other and we'd be on borrowed time as a species. I'm not married and I will continue to find some women sexy despite the repressive statements in your silly old book of nonsense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #205 October 29, 2011 Quote Ok, although I disagree that is ever ethical to lie, So it's WW II, you're living in occupied Amsterdam, and you've got a Jewish girl called Anne hiding in your annex. A nazi asks "Are you hiding Jews?" you lie. How on earth is that unethical? Quote how many proper deceptive lies have you ever told? tens of thousands probably, however, I usually try to prevent harm. Most of my lies are harmless. Quote If you're like the rest of us, what would that make you...or, if I told you a bald faced lie to your face, what would you say that I was? Seriously... Don't pull that ray comfort crap on me. If you lied to me, you would be a human that lied to me. Why should I label you a "liar" on one action? One action that might not even have consequences for me? If I ask you "How's life?" and you said "good" while I knew you had problems, why the hell would I think of you as a liar? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybird18c 24 #206 October 29, 2011 Yes. I have told lies and God used to see me as a liar. The Bible says that all liars will have their part in the lake of fire. However, Jesus Christ stood in my "law place" 2000 years ago and took the eternal punishment for my countless lies upon Himself. That's the point. Now I can be seen as righteous not because of anything I've done or could do but because of what Jesus did in my place. He paid an infinite price for my infinite obligation. Now, it's not that I can't lie anymore but that I try and never lie because of what He has done for me. Repentance and trust in Jesus Christ are needed to appropriate that forgiveness. Until then, you not only stand guilty in the eyes of God but are in fact rebellious enemies. But it doesn't have to end that way. Just some thoughts. Going to the Auburn football game. Later guys. WAR EAGLE!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #207 October 29, 2011 Quote Your misrepresentations are easily corrected and only undermine your position. It was your misrepresentation of Jay's post that got this ball rolling in the first place and you refused to acknowledge my response on that issue and presented a short rant on zombies...and now you still continue to misrepesent Jay's position...I now see the vanity in trying to correct you w/r/t this matter. Quote I cannot correct your refusal to look at evidence or give the facts a fair hearing because it threatens your belief This was never about my acceptance or rejection of evolution...I already explained that crystal clear to you several times now. This idea you have of my beliefs seems be be some type of bizzare quasi strawman that you've created in your head.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #208 October 29, 2011 Quote Lust is a strong motivator for many people getting married or getting into relationships that are a precursor to marriage. It is natural, it is intrinsic to the human reproduction. Marriage is nothing but a human construct, based on natural human drives. It's not that people stay together because they marry, people marry because they stay together. While H. Sapiens isn't truly monogamous, we're at least serial monogamous Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #209 October 29, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Everything else seems to be eternal Like what? anything that matters... Like what? Quote Quote First of all, you're using the word evolution in two completely different senses Of course...so what, he was using the word zombie in two completely different senses. Oh, so you already realise that your argument for the likelihood of eternal spiritual existence is total bollocks. That'll save us some timeDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #210 October 29, 2011 Quote Quote Quote So you're ok with being a liar or with people lying to you since it's all just "natural?" Whether lying is good or bad entirely depends on the situation, but it doesn't take a whole lot to realize that lying is essential to human society. So yes, lying is natural for humans to the point we couldn't survive without it. Interesting. I wonder if we should trust anything you say or do. You say that it's impossible for you to never lie. If you don't think he's trustworthy, then you must admit that you are equally untrustworthy.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #211 October 29, 2011 Quote Quote Ok, although I disagree that is ever ethical to lie, So it's WW II, you're living in occupied Amsterdam, and you've got a Jewish girl called Anne hiding in your annex. A nazi asks "Are you hiding Jews?" you lie. How on earth is that unethical? According to Ron it would be your biblical duty to co-operate fully with the Gestapo.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #212 October 29, 2011 Oh, I'm sorry...I didn't realize I presented an argument.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #213 October 29, 2011 Quote Going to the Auburn football game. Later guys. WAR EAGLE!!! This should be a nice starting point for a discussion about real Football vs. American Football..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #214 October 29, 2011 Quote According to Ron it would be your biblical duty to co-operate fully with the Gestapo. And after all: The Jews killed Jesus didn't they? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #215 October 29, 2011 Quote Oh, I'm sorry...I didn't realize I presented an argument. Four paragraphs of justification for the possibility of eternal existence... what did you think you were doing?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #216 October 29, 2011 Quote Quote Oh, I'm sorry...I didn't realize I presented an argument. Four paragraphs of justification for the possibility of eternal existence... what did you think you were doing? Schooling dorbie on the eaze and futility of rambling on and misrepresenting ones beliefs based on a strawman... The only real argument I presented in this thread was in my original reply to dorbie about his misrepresentation of Jay's post. Thus far he has refused to respond and continues to squaredance with scarecrows made of straw.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #217 October 29, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Oh, I'm sorry...I didn't realize I presented an argument. Four paragraphs of justification for the possibility of eternal existence... what did you think you were doing? Schooling dorbie on the eaze and futility of rambling on and misrepresenting ones beliefs based on a strawman... The only real argument I presented in this thread was in my original reply to dorbie about his misrepresentation of Jay's post. Oh, ok. So you don't think that everything else except life is eternal, you don't have a problem with sentience ceasing to exist and you don't think the concept of 'evolving' into spiritual perfection is plausible. Yes?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #218 October 29, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Oh, I'm sorry...I didn't realize I presented an argument. Four paragraphs of justification for the possibility of eternal existence... what did you think you were doing? Schooling dorbie on the eaze and futility of rambling on and misrepresenting ones beliefs based on a strawman... The only real argument I presented in this thread was in my original reply to dorbie about his misrepresentation of Jay's post. Oh, ok. So you don't think that everything else except life is eternal, you don't have a problem with sentience ceasing to exist and you don't think the concept of 'evolving' into spiritual perfection is plausible. Yes? You already know what I believe for the most part. What I don't believe is that dorbie has to believe in that stuff based on belief in evidence that life evolved from dung or whatever...besides, that's not how one comes to know God anyway.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #219 October 29, 2011 >Thus far he has refused to respond and continues to squaredance with scarecrows made of straw. 10 yard penalty, incomprehensible mixing of metaphors, no first down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmanpilot 0 #220 October 29, 2011 It was not until I was an adult. I began to question what I saw as clear inconsistencies and contradictions in Christianity (and all theistic notions). In order to be a truthful human being I was forced to conduct a spiritual and factual investigation and to thoughtfully consider the results. That's all it takes really; serious thought valuing credibility and ethics above faith and comfort._________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #221 October 30, 2011 Quote Quote Your misrepresentations are easily corrected and only undermine your position. It was your misrepresentation of Jay's post that got this ball rolling in the first place and you refused to acknowledge my response on that issue and presented a short rant on zombies...and now you still continue to misrepesent Jay's position...I now see the vanity in trying to correct you w/r/t this matter. Quote I cannot correct your refusal to look at evidence or give the facts a fair hearing because it threatens your belief This was never about my acceptance or rejection of evolution...I already explained that crystal clear to you several times now. This idea you have of my beliefs seems be be some type of bizzare quasi strawman that you've created in your head. Nonsense, you're still dodging and backslapping your Christian buddy is weak validation. You refuse to consider evidence of any sort. The zombie issue has been addressed and you've even been given chapter and verse. I don't have a quasi straw man idea of what you believe. I'm familiar with it, I used to be a Christian. Again your objection is a semantic one. Calling Christ a zombie god and mentioning the zombie uprising described in Mathew brings into sharp focus the utterly ridiculous nature of what Christians believe. You can object to the word zombie all you like but it is a fair use of the word. If you don't like the semantics that's too bad, I don't care, it's not an excuse to ignore the numerous valid criticisms you have been dodging. You do believe Christ resurrected in the flesh, holes poked by doubting Thomas and all. If you do not then your reject your foundational text. The only way anyone can believe in the Christian mythology and attack evolution in its defense as you did is to ignore the science and what is known about the history of their own scripture. Listen to "The Bible Geek" for a few years then get back to me on what you think you know about Christianity. All you've presented so far is dogma and personal affirmation without a shred of evidence or deeper knowledge on any matter of science or scripture. When challenged you've scurried away from the evidence that addresses your own question refusing to look at it and hiding behind the same crap because you dont like a word I used. Just who are you kidding? Go watch the video, it answers the very question YOU POSTED. And go listen to "The Bible Geek" if you want to understand your own Bible in greater depth instead of pretending to know more about Christianity than others simply because you believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #222 October 30, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Oh, I'm sorry...I didn't realize I presented an argument. Four paragraphs of justification for the possibility of eternal existence... what did you think you were doing? Schooling dorbie on the eaze and futility of rambling on and misrepresenting ones beliefs based on a strawman... The only real argument I presented in this thread was in my original reply to dorbie about his misrepresentation of Jay's post. Thus far he has refused to respond and continues to squaredance with scarecrows made of straw. Nonsense, There was no misrepresentation or strawman and there is chapter and verse to prove it. When you're confronted as you have been on numerous occasions by several posters you squeal "zombie" as if your semantic objection fools anyone or you move the goalposts like saying it was never about XYZ when YOU are the one who posted XYZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #223 October 30, 2011 Quote >Thus far he has refused to respond and continues to squaredance with scarecrows made of straw. 10 yard penalty, incomprehensible mixing of metaphors, no first down. Can you get a 10 yard penalty when you're still in your own endzone? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #224 October 30, 2011 Quote Quote Going to the Auburn football game. Later guys. WAR EAGLE!!! This should be a nice starting point for a discussion about real Football vs. American Football..... But don't bother - they never listen (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #225 October 30, 2011 Quote But don't bother - they never listen + Of course one wouldn't start such a discussion to get anywhere, one would starts such a discussion for he ensuing shit storm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
