Penn State Fires Paterno and Spanier

[NWFlyer 2]

I gotta say, ever since the whole Jerry Sandusky story broke wide on Saturday, I doubted very seriously that Paterno would get anything more than being strongly encouraged to (finally) retire. When he announced his retirement this morning, I figured that was that, they were going to let JoePa fade off into the sunset with a bit of a cloud over his head, but with no institutional censure. Even though he may not be legally culpable, morally, he should be called to account.

I'm glad to see that I was proven wrong and that finally, someone in this whole mess (well, a unanimous group of someones) has acted with honor. Well done, Penn State Board of Trustees.

Now comes the really hard work.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi Kris,

+1

There was a very good discussion today on NPR about how they hunker down to protect the institution and have not the slightest concern about the victim(s). They being things like the BSA & the Catholic church.

Some days we do get a little justice,

JerryBaumchen

PS) Now off to SC.

[Arvoitus 1]

I dislike the idea that if someone is accused of a crime they should be punished before they've been found guilty in a court of law. Even more so punishing people who haven't committed any crimes. Hell even publishing the names of the accused before they've been convicted of crimes is wrong. Especially considering how harmful a simple accusation can be to a man.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[NWFlyer 2]

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I dislike the idea that if someone is accused of a crime they should be punished before they've been found guilty in a court of law. Even more so punishing people who haven't committed any crimes. Hell even publishing the names of the accused before they've been convicted of crimes is wrong. Especially considering how harmful a simple accusation can be to a man.

And I dislike the idea that people like Joe Paterno and Penn State officials can decide they are the law, rather than reporting the allegations to the proper authorities who can then investigate the allegations in a timely fashion. Do I know for certain that Jerry Sandusky will be found guilty in a court of law? Nope, but a grand jury sure thinks there's enough there to charge him, which is how the process should have worked years ago, not now. Our legal system gets to decide these things, not football coaches and University administrators.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[normiss 800]

Can someone tell me why the hell the person that caught the rape in progress gets off with no responsibility?
He reported to his higher up and he's ok.
He's higher up does the same thing and gets ruined by the media.
All because he's the only one with any name recognition.
I also love how the rapist is getting almost no mention anywhere.
Instead it's all PATERNO! PATERNO! PATERNO!

Damn shame a fucking sicko - who should have and could have been legally killed when caught in the act. ANY normal man would have beat the fuck outta that sick bastard on the spot. THEN call the cops for what they're good at. Clean up.

[Gravitymaster 0]

I think it's sad that all the attention has been focused on Paterno and how this damages Penn State. Why isn't anyone talking about the victims?

[NWFlyer 2]

Agree, McQueary should prrobably go, too. But he was not in the position of power that Paterno was. In that culture he probably had reasonable fear of retaliation if he went outside the chain of command. Doesn't mean he shouldn't have anyway, but you can bet that w/o Paterno's backing he would have been crucified in the court of public opinion. Should he have been more courageous? Of course. But to try to let Paterno off the hook because McQueary went to him and not the police isn't right, either.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[muff528 3]

So ...now that they're both gone, who wins ...Paterno or Bowden?

[NWFlyer 2]

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I think it's sad that all the attention has been focused on Paterno and how this damages Penn State. Why isn't anyone talking about the victims?

That's the whole point. Because a lot of people cared more about the damage to Penn State than the victims, this was allowed to go on long after it should have been reported. It might not have saved his first victims, but it damn sure could have helped prevent further victims.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[normiss 800]

So a subordinate comes to you at work and states "So and so is HORSING AROUND with one of those kids".
You call the cops for horseplay?????
Horseplay isn't a violent sexual felony.
The guy that caught them is a piece of human shit.

It could also be argued that this guy had them all fooled. He had this program for so long, I would bet nobody thought anything of him with a kid. So it was easy to dismiss.

Read the testimony. Stop listening to media. He reported the rapist as simply "horsing around". To what degree that was understood appears to be anybody's guess.

I hope Paterno sues the fuck outta that piece of shit administration. Every single victim as well. Maybe Penn State doesn't deserve an athletic program.

[Austintxflight 0]

Does anyone else see parallels to the church sex scandals?

[livendive 8]

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Can someone tell me why the hell the person that caught the rape in progress gets off with no responsibility?
He reported to his higher up and he's ok.
He's higher up does the same thing and gets ruined by the media.
All because he's the only one with any name recognition.
I also love how the rapist is getting almost no mention anywhere.
Instead it's all PATERNO! PATERNO! PATERNO!

Damn shame a fucking sicko - who should have and could have been legally killed when caught in the act. ANY normal man would have beat the fuck outta that sick bastard on the spot. THEN call the cops for what they're good at. Clean up.

What he said. Someone allegedly saw Sandusky raping a young boy. THAT PERSON should have a) stopped it and b) called the cops. Instead, they told Paterno. Not having seen it himself, and the perp not having worked for him for years, he did the logical thing and told his boss. Calling cops with "I heard such & such" isn't something many of us would do either.

Paterno got crucified on this deal, and for no real good reason. It's a damned shame that someone who's been such an upstanding model for the sporting community (literally one of the only people in that industry whom I respect) has his entire body of work tarnished, his good deeds negated, solely because someone else was a sick bastard.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[NWFlyer 2]

Mark, I have read the grand jury report. It indicates that McQueary reported a rape. It's the guys at the top of the food chain who claim that only "horsing around" was reported. Do I know who's lying and who's telling the truth? No. But there are a lot of culpable people here and this stinks from the top on down.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[lawrocket 3]

Take a look at Sandusky and you have a textbook example sociopath child predator.

What is it that a predator wants? Victims. How does one go about getting victims? By finding those without protection. To Sandusky they were “at risk youths.” The guy created an organization where the victims would be brought to him. At the same time he would be lauded for helping them.

Many predators are well-known philanthropists. Take a look at Michael Jackson – scoping out kids with parents who cared more about money. Sandusky? Targets kids WITHOUT parental guidance. Madoff? Bemoaning his fate in prison but not one scintilla of sympathy for the people he hosed. He was the head of a stock exchange, a well known philanthropist. He set the table perfectly to use. He wasn’t a child predator, though. He was a money predator.

Sandusky set up an organization where the money and the kids flowed in. it was easy pickings for the sick fuck.

What is a sociopath? A person who has absolutely no shame, guilt or remorse. They have no empathy for others. They make fantastic liars because there is no guilt in them, they are great actors who know how to use the emotions of others. And they pounce when the guard is down.

I think it would be nice for people to start paying attention to people like Sandusky. Perhaps figure out a bit about how they operate. Sure, the story is fine with regard to Paterno just broke the career wins record and NOW this comes out. Just after the career wins record set. How about that? Gotta appreciate the true sheer coincidence of that, huh? Next thing you MLB will wait until after a player gets 3,000 hits to suspend for things like steroids. Isn’t that right, Palmeiro?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jclalor 12]

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Can someone tell me why the hell the person that caught the rape in progress gets off with no responsibility?
He reported to his higher up and he's ok.
He's higher up does the same thing and gets ruined by the media.
All because he's the only one with any name recognition.
I also love how the rapist is getting almost no mention anywhere.
Instead it's all PATERNO! PATERNO! PATERNO!

Damn shame a fucking sicko - who should have and could have been legally killed when caught in the act. ANY normal man would have beat the fuck outta that sick bastard on the spot. THEN call the cops for what they're good at. Clean up.

What he said. Someone allegedly saw Sandusky raping a young boy. THAT PERSON should have a) stopped it and b) called the cops. Instead, they told Paterno. Not having seen it himself, and the perp not having worked for him for years, he did the logical thing and told his boss. Calling cops with "I heard such & such" isn't something many of us would do either.

Paterno got crucified on this deal, and for no real good reason. It's a damned shame that someone who's been such an upstanding model for the sporting community (literally one of the only people in that industry whom I respect) has his entire body of work tarnished, his good deeds negated, solely because someone else was a sick bastard.

Blues,
Dave

If someone told me they heard of an adult raping a child, I would be on the phone in seconds. Letting the police figure it out is better than second guessing.

If it was your child who was raped because people passed the buck, you would probably be a little more critical.

Plenty of people that dropped the (pardon the pun) ball.

[lawrocket 3]

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Paterno got crucified on this deal, and for no real good reason.

If Paterno was being crucified by law enforcement and there wasn’t anything that required him to do anything, then you’re damned right I’d be saying, “This is bullshit. He committed no crime.” But this is public opinion, and that is something for which standards are different.

Let’s look at power. Who was more powerful than Sandusky? Joe Pa and nobody else. Some grad student goes after Sandusky and that grad student goes to jail. Sandusky was like Pa – squeaky clean. Some grad student beats the old man claiming that there was rape?

There was a power gradient here. The Assistant went to the only person he could think of and left it to him to handle it. The word of a graduate assistant versus the philanthropist defensive coordinator.

That’s where Pa did it wrong. Joe Pa presided over a culture where the assistant was afraid. Pa neither fixed the problem nor did he create a culture where the assistant felt he could do what was right.

He deserves to be crucified. I respected him, too. Past tense.

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It's a damned shame that someone who's been such an upstanding model for the sporting community (literally one of the only people in that industry whom I respect) has his entire body of work tarnished, his good deeds negated, solely because someone else was a sick bastard.

Joe Pa has been an upstanding model. Yes - model. It's not tarnished because somebody was a sick bastard. Had Joe Pa acted appropriately when it happened, he would STILL be an upstanding model. "He turned in his defensive coordinator. Sandusky? No way! He’s been the coordinator for 15 years and is as well loved as anybody in college football. For raping a boy? WOW!”

Pa would be the upstanding model for doing that. Risking his defense for doing the right thing. He didnt do the right thing. Now there are 40 counts that Sandusky faces.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[normiss 800]

I say bullshit.

NOBODY is powerful enough that my kicking their ass because I caught them in the violent sexual assault and rape of a minor would put me in jail. For long anyway. ;-p

I don't care WHO 'he' is.

[DesertAttorney 0]

Even if Paterno is not criminally indicted, the Civil Suits that will be delicious to behold, as the Victims decimate Penn State, Sandusky, Paterno, and all of the other asswipes who stayed quiet.

Hundreds of millions. Paterno might as well just liquidate his entire estate and pay it out just before putting a 9mm slug into his own brainstem.

[Amazon 7]

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Even if Paterno is not criminally indicted, the Civil Suits that will be delicious to behold, as the Victims decimate Penn State, Sandusky, Paterno, and all of the other asswipes who stayed quiet.

Hundreds of millions. Paterno might as well just liquidate his entire estate and pay it out just before putting a 9mm slug into his own brainstem.

DAYUM.. it must suck for you... to be missing out on all that

[lawrocket 3]

DA doesn't do that type of law. But I'd be happy to apply pro hac vice for the chance.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[livendive 8]

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Paterno got crucified on this deal, and for no real good reason.

Joe Pa has been an upstanding model. Yes - model. It's not tarnished because somebody was a sick bastard. Had Joe Pa acted appropriately when it happened, he would STILL be an upstanding model. "He turned in his defensive coordinator. Sandusky? No way! He’s been the coordinator for 15 years and is as well loved as anybody in college football. For raping a boy? WOW!”

Pa would be the upstanding model for doing that. Risking his defense for doing the right thing. He didnt do the right thing. Now there are 40 counts that Sandusky faces.

You realize Sandusky hadn't been a coach for three years prior to this incident? He didn't work for JoePa when this happened. Also, I've read that Schultz (who JoePa *did* tell) oversaw campus police at the time. Could Joe Pa have done more? Yes. But it's McCleary who had the power to stop it, and the only one with first-hand knowledge of the crime to assist police/prosecutors. Yet he still works for Penn State and JoePa takes the fall, despite seeing nothing (that we know of).

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[lawrocket 3]

Quit making good points, Dave.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[DesertAttorney 0]

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Quit making good points, Dave.

Best case scenario for JoePa and PSU?

A nice fat out of Court Settlement. 7-figures minimum...

[normiss 800]

This is most likely where this is all going.

The perv will go to prison, hopefully his stay will be uber short prior to transitioning to some other level of existence. Or not....

The abused kids will hopefully ALL sue the fuck outta Penn State, as will Paterno. Do away with the Penn State sports programs, replace ALL leadership there, including the board.
Clean slate time.

[DesertAttorney 0]

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This is most likely where this is all going.

The perv will go to prison, hopefully his stay will be uber short prior to transitioning to some other level of existence. Or not....

The abused kids will hopefully ALL sue the fuck outta Penn State, as will Paterno. Do away with the Penn State sports programs, replace ALL leadership there, including the board.
Clean slate time.

I sincerely hope that's a typo, and you don't actually believe Paterno has a cause of action against PSU of the kids...I'd wager that the kids have a claim against Paterno.

His "I did all that was required of me" smacks of the usual war crimes tribunal response of "I was only following orders."

The old fuck should rot in hell for not speaking up.