OWS - NYC, peaceful protest, my ass!

[CameraNewbie 0]

Today 5 cops got doused with vinegar in their eyes. 1 cop got his hand slashed by a broken bottle. Thanks for making it a peaceful protest!!!

What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks!

[skinnay 0]

at least the cops got their revenge on the guy who flicked the hat off a cop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNsG1szQPqo

[quade 4]

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Today 5 cops got doused with vinegar in their eyes. 1 cop got his hand slashed by a broken bottle. Thanks for making it a peaceful protest!!!

Source?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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at least the cops got their revenge on the guy who flicked the hat off a cop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNsG1szQPqo

Your video reference only shows an injured man who appears to be in police custody. If you wanted your video reference to mean anything it would need to show what happened before this man was injured and show how he was injured.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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at least the cops got their revenge on the guy who flicked the hat off a cop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNsG1szQPqo

Source of information?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Agreed. For all we know he was throwing rocks at cops.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Andy9o8 2]

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Agreed. For all we know he was throwing rocks at cops.

Or, for all we know, he simply flipped them the bird and they beat the shit out of him for daring to offend them. Seems to me, in America, cops are (supposedly) trained to control their emotions in crowd-control situations.

Or maybe we should all just STFU with the speculation until we know what really happened.

(Maybe it was Hitler.)

[Anvilbrother 0]

Agreed. Cops do get out of hand sometimes

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Kennedy 0]

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at least the cops got their revenge on the guy who flicked the hat off a cop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNsG1szQPqo

And here we have another wonderful example of selective editting. Your videographer must've studied at the Rodney King School of Video Fun. (except at that school they teach you to at least get actual excessive force on tape)

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/protester-brandon-watts-pitch-a-tent-zuccotti-park-bloody-face-day-action-article-1.979573

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snip
On Thursday, Watts stood atop a wall inside Zuccotti Park and tossed objects — including a AAA battery — at cops standing outside the barricade along Liberty St., police said.

Suddenly, the 6-foot-1, 160-pound Watts charged the officers and snatched a hat off the head of a deputy inspector, cops said.

Cops caught him as he ran back into the park, but he began to fight back, police said. He was wrestled to the ground and busted his head on the concrete, causing a gash to gush blood down his face.

He was taken to Bellevue Hospital and later charged with assault and grand larceny.

It wasn’t the first time Watts tussled with cops since the Occupied Wall Street movement began downtown.

He has been arrested four times since Sept. 24 for resisting arrest, loitering in disguise, escaping from a prisoner van and stealing orange mesh fencing, police said.

He even bragged about some of the arrests to a Daily News reporter on Oct. 1.

“I got loose from them and I ran and I knocked down the barricades as much as I could,” he said of one collar.

snip

“I got blades on the bottoms of my shoes and a blade in my pocket.”

But he said he never had to use a weapon.

“I roundhouse kicked [one] in the balls,” he said. “I got only two black eyes, and they got carried out with handcuffs and stretchers.”

snip

So tell me again about your peaceful protests.
eta: I don't know what OP CameraNewbie is talking about, but I know skinnay is talking out of his ass.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Andy9o8 2]

Loitering in disguise? Why didn't you say so? That son of a bitch.

[muff528 3]

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Loitering in disguise? Why didn't you say so? That son of a bitch.

"He was taken to Bellevue Hospital and later charged with assault and grand larceny."

I wonder why he wasn't charged with "battery", too. ("...and tossed objects — including a AAA battery...")

[Kennedy 0]

I'm far more interested in the assaults on officers, the intentional damage, charging at officers manning a barricade, theft of public property, resisting arrest, fighting in public, and carrying concealed razor blades.

As to the loitering, since NYPD isn't snatching up every idiot in a mask, and this kid has already demonstrated that he's going to show his ass, I think its safe to say there was more to the arrest than just loitering in disguise.
Side note: do you think the courts were wrong in KKK vs Kerik?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[dks13827 3]

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at least the cops got their revenge on the guy who flicked the hat off a cop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNsG1szQPqo

Where is Harry Callahan when we really need him ? That guy LOOKED TOO GOOD !!!

[dks13827 3]

Bill Ayers has been shown recently talking to the protestors. If one observes Ayers, you can tell that his goal is the destruction of society.... no more, no less. Why ? Just because. That's what guys like him do.

[rushmc 23]

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Bill Ayers has been shown recently talking to the protestors. If one observes Ayers, you can tell that his goal is the destruction of society.... no more, no less. Why ? Just because. That's what guys like him do.

And a funny thing is, he was Obama's mentor and is still his friend. Obama's political kick off party was in Bill Ayers house. Obama served on two boards with Bill Ayers and gave more than one speech with him

birds of a feather...

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

And I, in reply, am far more interested in why "snatching the hat off an officer" (the horror!) amounts to an offense that warrants having his head bashed and bloodied. Mind you, THAT was why he was beaten up, not because he was an asshole.

Here's some more police brutality against some Occupy demonstrators. For those who choose not to watch the video, a group of people peacefully sitting across a university campus walkway are repeatedly pepper-sprayed in the face before being dragged off by the cops.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/19/uc-davis-police-pepper-spray-students_n_1102728.html?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk3|114240

Are you going to be an apologist for these cops, too? I always thought that tolerance of citizen public demonstration was one of the hallmarks of what separates the US from most other countries. Did we, as a nation, really learn nothing from Selma in 1965, or Chicago in 1968? How quickly we forget.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Loitering in disguise? Why didn't you say so? That son of a bitch.

"He was taken to Bellevue Hospital and later charged with assault and grand larceny."

He was taken to the hospital because the cops were bright enough to make sure he didn't die of a brain injury after they bashed his head in. He was charged with assault because once police beat the shit out of someone, they always, always, always, ALWAYS charge them with assault - that's how it works, see? He was charged with grand larceny for stealing some plastic mesh fencing. That son of a bitch. They oughta bash his head in.

[Elite_Marksman 0]

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Here's some more police brutality against some Occupy demonstrators. For those who choose not to watch the video, a group of people peacefully sitting across a university campus walkway are repeatedly pepper-sprayed in the face before being dragged off by the cops.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/19/uc-davis-police-pepper-spray-students_n_1102728.html?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk3|114240

I emphasized the important bit there for you. Sitting across a walkway, road, etc, is not protesting, it is causing an unnecessary inconvenience to other people.

One's rights to free speech and public assembly end when they infringe upon the rights of other people to go about their daily business with minimal interference.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Here's some more police brutality against some Occupy demonstrators. For those who choose not to watch the video, a group of people peacefully sitting across a university campus walkway are repeatedly pepper-sprayed in the face before being dragged off by the cops.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/19/uc-davis-police-pepper-spray-students_n_1102728.html?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk3|114240

I emphasized the important bit there for you. Sitting across a walkway, road, etc, is not protesting, it is causing an unnecessary inconvenience to other people.

One's rights to free speech and public assembly end when they infringe upon the rights of other people to go about their daily business with minimal interference.

Alice's Restaurant redux, eh?

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causing an unnecessary inconvenience to other people.

The horror. Those sons of bitches.

You never really learned anything in your civics classes, did you?
That's a pretty wide miss, for an elite marksman.

[Elite_Marksman 0]

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causing an unnecessary inconvenience to other people.

The horror. Those sons of bitches.

You never really learned anything in your civics classes, did you?
That's a pretty wide miss, for an elite marksman.

Watch the video. The part before the pepper spray.

They were blocking police officers from leaving. They were ordered to move. They refused to move. They were warned they would be sprayed if they did not move. The still refused to move. They were moved.

The right to peaceably assemble does not give one the right to interfere with the lives and business of others. Watch the video closely, they were ordered only to clear the sidewalk, not disperse completely. The only people sprayed were those who refused a lawful order to clear the sidewalk.

[Amazon 7]

http://www.thenation.com/article/164501/paramilitary-policing-seattle-occupy-wall-street

External political factors are also to blame, such as the continuing madness of the drug war. Last year police arrested 1.6 million nonviolent drug offenders. In New York City alone almost 50,000 people (overwhelmingly black, Latino or poor) were busted for possession of small amounts of marijuana—some of it, we have recently learned, planted by narcotics officers. The counterproductive response to 9/11, in which the federal government began providing military equipment and training even to some of the smallest rural departments, has fueled the militarization of police forces. Everyday policing is characterized by a SWAT mentality, every other 911 call a military mission. What emerges is a picture of a vital public-safety institution perpetually at war with its own people. The tragic results—raids gone bad, wrong houses hit, innocent people and family pets shot and killed by police—are chronicled in Radley Balko’s excellent 2006 report Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America.

It is ironic that those police officers who are busting up the Occupy protesters are themselves victims of the same social ills the demonstrators are combating: corporate greed; the slackening of essential regulatory systems; and the abject failure of all three branches of government to safeguard civil liberties and to protect, if not provide, basic human needs like health, housing, education and more. With cities and states struggling to balance the budget while continuing to deliver public safety, many cops are finding themselves out of work. And, as many Occupy protesters have pointed out, even as police officers help to safeguard the power and profits of the 1 percent, police officers are part of the 99 percent.

There will always be situations—an armed and barricaded suspect, a man with a knife to his wife’s throat, a school-shooting rampage—that require disciplined, military-like operations. But most of what police are called upon to do, day in and day out, requires patience, diplomacy and interpersonal skills. I’m convinced it is possible to create a smart organizational alternative to the paramilitary bureaucracy that is American policing. But that will not happen unless, even as we cull “bad apples” from our police forces, we recognize that the barrel itself is rotten.

Assuming the necessity of radical structural reform, how do we proceed? By building a progressive police organization, created by rank-and-file officers, “civilian” employees and community representatives. Such an effort would include plans to flatten hierarchies; create a true citizen review board with investigative and subpoena powers; and ensure community participation in all operations, including policy-making, program development, priority-setting and crisis management. In short, cops and citizens would forge an authentic partnership in policing the city. And because partners do not act unilaterally, they would be compelled to keep each other informed, and to build trust and mutual respect—qualities sorely missing from the current equation.

It will not be easy. In fact, failure is assured if we lack the political will to win the support of police chiefs and their elected bosses, if we are unable to influence or neutralize police unions, if we don’t have the courage to move beyond the endless justifications for maintaining the status quo. But imagine the community and its cops united in the effort to responsibly “police” the Occupy movement. Picture thousands of people gathered to press grievances against their government and the corporations, under the watchful, sympathetic protection of their partners in blue.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Watch the video. The part before the pepper spray.

Oh, I did. They were - OMFG!! - blocking a paved walkway in the middle of a lawn-covered expanse of college campus. Anyone and everyone could have simply walked around the "obstruction" with ease. The police decision to show them who's boss and move them by physical force, rather than choosing not to escalate the situation, was overbearing and unnecessary to the circumstances. The decision to pepper-spray them in the face was completely unwarranted brutality.

Again: do you remember what country this is?
'Nother swing-and-a-miss for the marksman.

[Andy9o8 2]

Both sides of the story are aired here, if you read the full article.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/20/us/california-occupy-pepperspray/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

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California university launches inquiry into pepper spray of protesters

We report. You decide.

[Kennedy 0]

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And I, in reply, am far more interested in why "snatching the hat off an officer" (the horror!) amounts to an offense that warrants having his head bashed and bloodied. Mind you, THAT was why he was beaten up, not because he was an asshole.

Andy you're more knowledgable than that. His injuries are a result of his poor decision-making. He chose to commit a criminal offense. He chose to flee from officers. When caught, he chose to resist a lawful arrest. Officers used the force necessary to overcome resistance and complete the arrest. Unless you can show me video or reliable independant witnesses who say the officers pounded his head into the concrete or used of excessive force, I am not going to accept as fact the idea that officers intentionally caused that injury. It is possible, but with that many protestors and cameras and (miraculously) no footage of the area, it's doubtful.

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Here's some more police brutality against some Occupy demonstrators. For those who choose not to watch the video, a group of people peacefully sitting across a university campus walkway are repeatedly pepper-sprayed in the face before being dragged off by the cops.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/19/uc-davis-police-pepper-spray-students_n_1102728.html?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk3|114240

Are you going to be an apologist for these cops, too? I always thought that tolerance of citizen public demonstration was one of the hallmarks of what separates the US from most other countries. Did we, as a nation, really learn nothing from Selma in 1965, or Chicago in 1968? How quickly we forget.

Look at pretty much any police department use of force policy. Pepper spray is lower than hands-on techniques. It is normal practice across the country to use chemical agents prior to hands-on with non-compliant suspects. It is safer for the suspect and for the officer. The college (folks that control the space) called in officers to remove subjects who were not abiding by the rules (call it blocking a right of way, trespass, disorderly, whatever). The college has the right to set the rules. The protestors didn't follwo the rules even after being given a deadline. So the campus admins called in police. The protestors were warned several times. If you think thet college was wrong to call in law enforcement, take it up with UC-Davis. Police are not going to decide which calls for service they answer or which laws they enforce.

If you don't like the pepper spray option, what would you prefer the officers have done?
(the officers were very professional, engaged the protestors verbally, warned them, and used limited force; also, it's clear they were trained in Mobile Field Force tactics and used those tactice effectively)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Marinus 0]

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If you don't like the pepper spray option, what would you prefer the officers have done?

It's almost tragic you've to ask that, but here's an option:

The cop tells the protester to move his ass. If the protester refuses the cop warns him he will be arrested. If the protester refuses to move after that, he/she gets arrested. With as little as force possible. In civilized countries pepper-spray is usually only used against aggressive people, that pose a threat for the officer. Pepperspray isn't harmless and only an idiot would use it for no reason whatsoever.

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it's clear they were trained in Mobile Field Force tactics and used those tactice effectively

I've no idea what Mobile Field Force Tactics are, but I'm rather sure you don't need them against a couple of kids sitting on the pavement doing nothing.