OWS - NYC, peaceful protest, my ass!

[Kennedy 0]

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>How many bridges, streets or sidewalks did TEA Party rallies shut down?

Not many. But he wasn't talking about that - he was talking about groups trying to make their point by being as noisy and irritating as possible. And THAT is something the Tea Party are masters of.

OK, so we all kow how noisy and irritating fleabaggers are. How are the teabaggers noisy and irritating? (in your view)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[kelpdiver 2]

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Save your feelings. I'm sick and tired of arguing facts and laws again people's feelings. I tried sharing information with uninformed folks, particularly marinus. Whether you like it or not, that is how things work.

"This is how things work" is the generic answer to every protest movement we've ever seen. Nothing changes without these sorts of events. Obviously not having a cause (yet) will make it hard for OWS, but this rationalization wears thin.

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I have said before peaceful and nonviolent are not the same thing. Do you think they are? If not, what is the difference to your mind?

While I can imagine a few situations that I might describe as nonviolent yet not peaceful (KKK marches, for example), the union of the two terms is pretty high - 90%? I think you'll need to man up and actually tell us how sitting on a sidewalk refusing to move is not peaceful. It's not at all like looting, breaking windows, tearing down fences, attacking cops, and other mishaps we've seen over the past couple months.

[Marinus 0]

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I tried sharing information with uninformed folks, particularly marinus.

Marinus might consider the option of taking you seriously more serious if you didn't display the demeanour of an immature 21 year old. It also doesn't help that you claim that the UK is as pepper spray happy as you guys while that isn't the case. If I need information about police forces I'd rather turn to wikipedia than to you.

[Kennedy 0]

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Save your feelings. I'm sick and tired of arguing facts and laws again people's feelings. I tried sharing information with uninformed folks, particularly marinus. Whether you like it or not, that is how things work.

"This is how things work" is the generic answer to every protest movement we've ever seen. Nothing changes without these sorts of events. Obviously not having a cause (yet) will make it hard for OWS, but this rationalization wears thin.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. We were discussing use of pepper spray in a specific incident and it's justification as applied to law enforcement. There are reasons to agree with OWS and reasons to disagree. But it's difficult to discuss a legal issue like use of force when people don't know what they're talking about and won't listen when you try to share information. If they just want to vent and share feelings, well whoop di do for them, but that has no bearing on how police work or why government does what it does.

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I have said before peaceful and nonviolent are not the same thing. Do you think they are? If not, what is the difference to your mind?

While I can imagine a few situations that I might describe as nonviolent yet not peaceful (KKK marches, for example), the union of the two terms is pretty high - 90%? I think you'll need to man up and actually tell us how sitting on a sidewalk refusing to move is not peaceful. It's not at all like looting, breaking windows, tearing down fences, attacking cops, and other mishaps we've seen over the past couple months.

An activity cannot be peaceful without being nonviolent. However an activity can be non-violent without being peaceful. Sitting on a sidewalk (or street, bridge, port, park, etc) and refusing to move is denying others their right to use that sidewalk. It is a statement that you have control over it, that your rights and claims are superior to that of others. That is non-violent. That is not peaceful.

An activity, such as a protest, that fails to follow Time Place Manner restrictions is most likely not going to be peaceful. To some extent, I understand the idea that you have to make waves to be noticed. On the other hand, you do not have the right to interfere with other people's right to go about their lives. Your freedom of speech does not include making an ungodly racket at 3am in front of their house. Your right to assemble does not include the right to block other's access to buildings or to assemble in a place where you have no right to be (like private property where the owner/controller states you are unwelcome). That noise is noviolent, that trespass or denial of access is nonviolent, but it is not peaceful. In fact is disturbs the peace. That's why people call the police, and that's why the police will arrest the people who don't stop their illegal activity.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[kelpdiver 2]

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An activity cannot be peaceful without being nonviolent. However an activity can be non-violent without being peaceful. Sitting on a sidewalk (or street, bridge, port, park, etc) and refusing to move is denying others their right to use that sidewalk. It is a statement that you have control over it, that your rights and claims are superior to that of others. That is non-violent. That is not peaceful.

I'll agree that true blocking (bridge, intersection, entrance to abortion clinic) are suitable examples. It's not clear to me that anything was being blocked here...that is, people could easily walk around it. If so, they're a nuisance, not a not peaceful non violent act.

It's a weird scene outside my office in SF. Significant portions of the sidewalks in front of my block and the next door Federal Reserve are now blocked off with metal barriers. These were spots where people had been pitching tents. I agree with the stopping of that, but I'm not happy to see the sidewalks removed entirely - people do have the right to assemble to protest. I just don't believe the camping aspect is also guaranteed, esp with the consequences.

[Amazon 7]

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Save your feelings. I'm sick and tired of arguing facts and laws again people's feelings. I tried sharing information with uninformed folks, particularly marinus. Whether you like it or not, that is how things work.

"This is how things work" is the generic answer to every protest movement we've ever seen. Nothing changes without these sorts of events. Obviously not having a cause (yet) will make it hard for OWS, but this rationalization wears thin.

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I have said before peaceful and nonviolent are not the same thing. Do you think they are? If not, what is the difference to your mind?

While I can imagine a few situations that I might describe as nonviolent yet not peaceful (KKK marches, for example), the union of the two terms is pretty high - 90%? I think you'll need to man up and actually tell us how sitting on a sidewalk refusing to move is not peaceful. It's not at all like looting, breaking windows, tearing down fences, attacking cops, and other mishaps we've seen over the past couple months.

Wouldn't you love to know what oriface those fuckers keep pulling those "lawful orders" out of..... a hell of a lot of them seem to smell kinda nasty.

[tri160 1]

Then by all means tell us what they should do differently. or is all you can do spew venomous bullshit. By all means enlighten us since you know everything.

[Amazon 7]

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Then by all means tell us what they should do differently. or is all you can do spew venomous bullshit. By all means enlighten us since you know everything.

It's called an education... perhaps... you should have tried it

[popsjumper 2]

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I was attempting to make a joke, and failed miserably I guess. If I lurked right on these forums, 99 of 100 times when people don't have a problem with fast progression it's due to their Mad Skillz.

OK you busted me. I'm an idiot. I see the joke now.


"What we have here is a failure to communicate!"

-from an old movie you probably are too young to remember. Assuming, of course, that you even watch 'Merican movies.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[verbil 0]

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Then by all means tell us what they should do differently. or is all you can do spew venomous bullshit. By all means enlighten us since you know everything.

It's called an education... perhaps... you should have tried it

If the effluent you spew on this board is the metric for education, I'd wager many here would be happy to self-label as "uneducated."

[popsjumper 2]

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If I were protesting I wouldn't plant my ass down on a public sidewalk obstructing the rights of other people to use it. I would set down on the grass right next to the sidewalk and make my opinion known from there. That's how I would treat others and expect to be treated.

Ahhh..you are just a too-considerate protester. Sit on it.


It was a joke!!!!!! Honest!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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I have said before peaceful and nonviolent are not the same thing. Do you think they are? If not, what is the difference to your mind?

Yet you would react to them both the same way. Got it.

Depending on "operating procedure" is a small way of thinking. You may have heard of situational awareness?

My opinion on how you view peaceful vs nonviolent is irrelevant. Get back to the absurdity of supporting the actions of the police and the choices they made in this situation.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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>In simple terms they are trying to make their point by being as noisy and irritating
>as possible everyone else be damned.

Are you talking about the Tea Party or the OWS people here?

Could have been the Yuppies maybe?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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But it's difficult to discuss a legal issue like use of force when people don't know what they're talking about and won't listen when you try to share information.

What you fail to realize is that "legal" has nothing to do with it other than for the supporters to use as justification for being such violent pricks.

If you choose to be a violent prick just because it's legal...I'm sorry. That's just beyond all common decency.

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but that has no bearing on how police work or why government does what it does.

Knowing 'why" has no bearing on the issue. What was done was piss-toasting bully/thug and has to be stopped.

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An activity cannot be peaceful without being nonviolent. However an activity can be non-violent without being peaceful. Sitting on a sidewalk (or street, bridge, port, park, etc) and refusing to move is denying others their right to use that sidewalk. It is a statement that you have control over it, that your rights and claims are superior to that of others. That is non-violent. That is not peaceful.

So...peaceful/non-violent...the solution is to give them a good ol' legal butt whippin', right?

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That's why people call the police, and that's why the police will arrest the people who don't stop their illegal activity.

Rightfully so! Where does your morals allow for a good ol' legal ass-whuppin' to solve a non-violent situation?

I give up. Your mentality is warped, IMHO.
It just doesn't make sense, legal or not, on any level to physically attack people for protesting non-violently and/or peacefully.

God help you had you been standing on the sidelines in 1968 Chicago.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[tri160 1]

I already have an education, a damn good one at that. Besides you seem to be proof positive that education does not equal intelligence.

[Coreece 190]

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"What we have here is a failure to communicate!"

-from an old movie you probably are too young to remember.

Maybe so, but he may very well be a GN'R fan...

Guns N' Roses - Civil War:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALhwQKTRAgA

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[popsjumper 2]

I like guns and I like roses...I just don't like Axl.
N

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Coreece 190]

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I just don't like Axl.

http://content.clearchannel.com/cc-common/mlib/792/10/792_1318429454.jpg

http://cdn.nextround.net/upcoming/thumbs/2011/10/10/Meme-Watch-Fat-Axl-Rose-889-m.jpg

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Amazon 7]

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I already have an education, a damn good one at that. Besides you seem to be proof positive that education does not equal intelligence.

Oh really... Facts not in evidence.



WAITER... we have another one in severe need of fromage to go with his choice of whine.

[Marinus 0]

Well, it was a bit far fetched to begin with, and humour in another language is a b**** to pull off, so you can still blame me if you want.

I had to google that line to see where it originally came from, but it was "covered" a multitude of times in other movies, series and even sampled in house music.

Most of the movies I watch are in English, and most of those movies are American. Unlike most European countries we don't dub movies.

[rushmc 23]

If the effluent you spew on this board is the metric for education, I'd wager many here would be happy to self-label as "uneducated."

Amen

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[verbil 0]

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I already have an education, a damn good one at that. Besides you seem to be proof positive that education does not equal intelligence.

Oh really... Facts not in evidence.



WAITER... we have another one in severe need of fromage to go with his choice of whine.

How is it that when others complain/express displeasure, it is whining, while when you complain/express displeasure, it is NOT whining?

[rushmc 23]

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Quote

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I already have an education, a damn good one at that. Besides you seem to be proof positive that education does not equal intelligence.

Oh really... Facts not in evidence.



WAITER... we have another one in severe need of fromage to go with his choice of whine.

How is it that when others complain/express displeasure, it is whining, while when you complain/express displeasure, it is NOT whining?

The liberal double standard

A non-curable affliction

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

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Quote

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I already have an education, a damn good one at that. Besides you seem to be proof positive that education does not equal intelligence.

Oh really... Facts not in evidence.



WAITER... we have another one in severe need of fromage to go with his choice of whine.

How is it that when others complain/express displeasure, it is whining, while when you complain/express displeasure, it is NOT whining?

I guess you just have to be able to recognize GOAT FUCK STUPID when you read it right there on the page in front of you. Of course.. that does require basic comprehension of the english language.

Who is it again who blamed their teachers for their inability to learn back then... and continue to do so day in and day out in the lacluster lives today.

[verbil 0]

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I already have an education, a damn good one at that. Besides you seem to be proof positive that education does not equal intelligence.

Oh really... Facts not in evidence.



WAITER... we have another one in severe need of fromage to go with his choice of whine.

How is it that when others complain/express displeasure, it is whining, while when you complain/express displeasure, it is NOT whining?

I guess you just have to be able to recognize GOAT FUCK STUPID when you read it right there on the page in front of you. Of course.. that does require basic comprehension of the english language.

Who is it again who blamed their teachers for their inability to learn back then... and continue to do so day in and day out in the lacluster lives today.

That doesn't answer my question.