mircan 0
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wmw999 2,439
It really is in very large part up to the parents. Here is a story on NPR on what happens when infractions are punished too often by the legal system. Yeah, maybe schools are more orderly, but students aren't being served.
Parents, by words, example, and home consequences, can help students to understand that school is important.
And not every school can help every student, no matter how hard they try. There are too many different kids out there -- that crowding thread? Well, where 50-100 years ago a school might have enough kids with developmental disabilities for a single "slow" class, now there are IEPs, many different needs for all these kids, and that's not even beginning to hit the needs of the higher-achieving kids.
You can't say that schools shouldn't serve these kids; this isn't an easy problem with simple, obvious answers.
And yeah, too, schools can't afford financially to be sued. And if there aren't controls over the teachers, the occasional bully will have a great time "controlling" his or her students, too ![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
.
And people wonder why things aren't easy.
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
steve1 5
I don't think schools give up on tough kids as easy as the article says. On the contrary they usually make every accomodation possible before they do that.
If you have too many tough kids in a school, they end up running that school. Regular school is not the proper place for many tough kids....Alternative school may be the best place for kids like that.
I don't want my kid beaten up and hurt by thugs in the regular school. I truly feel bad for students who can't follow the rules, but the fact is that their behavior is not easily corrected...
I agree that it is no wonder that some kids are trouble makers at school. All you have to do is take one look at their guardian or parents. Most of these kids have terrible stories of neglect and abuse.
The hard part is trying to fix that. Many of these kids are still living in a home from hell. Teachers may be too over worked to have time to give the individual help that these student need.
I work as a school counselor. There is little that can be done by just a short visit to my office. They go home to an environment where survival is the only thing they know. They return to school angry at everyone and everything. That anger is a cover up for hurt....
I work in a very tough school. Social Services are about worthless here. The courts look the other way when an alcoholic, drug addicted, neglectful, or worthless parent is brought to their attention.
Most schools are doing all they can to help kids like this. But the simple fact remains that the most influential element in that child's life is their guardian and home environment....not the school.
Regular public school can't fix many of these kids. The staff in public school, don't have magic wands. They do their best to help these students, and someone on the street condemns their efforts.
Then the politicians get involved and matters get even worse. I personally don't know why anyone would want to be a teacher in this day and age....It's just too tough!
If you have too many tough kids in a school, they end up running that school. Regular school is not the proper place for many tough kids....Alternative school may be the best place for kids like that.
I don't want my kid beaten up and hurt by thugs in the regular school. I truly feel bad for students who can't follow the rules, but the fact is that their behavior is not easily corrected...
I agree that it is no wonder that some kids are trouble makers at school. All you have to do is take one look at their guardian or parents. Most of these kids have terrible stories of neglect and abuse.
The hard part is trying to fix that. Many of these kids are still living in a home from hell. Teachers may be too over worked to have time to give the individual help that these student need.
I work as a school counselor. There is little that can be done by just a short visit to my office. They go home to an environment where survival is the only thing they know. They return to school angry at everyone and everything. That anger is a cover up for hurt....
I work in a very tough school. Social Services are about worthless here. The courts look the other way when an alcoholic, drug addicted, neglectful, or worthless parent is brought to their attention.
Most schools are doing all they can to help kids like this. But the simple fact remains that the most influential element in that child's life is their guardian and home environment....not the school.
Regular public school can't fix many of these kids. The staff in public school, don't have magic wands. They do their best to help these students, and someone on the street condemns their efforts.
Then the politicians get involved and matters get even worse. I personally don't know why anyone would want to be a teacher in this day and age....It's just too tough!
School can be hell for the "Out" Crowd. Teachers and administrators had better protect those kids, or they may end up with another Columbine on their hands...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/june99/columbine12.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/june99/columbine12.htm
steve1 5
This news article would cause anyone to be angry. After all the school was allowing bullies to thrive and harass others. I wonder if that is the whole truth. Newspapers get rich by selling sensationalism. I'm getting to where I believe about half of what is see in newspapers.
Two years ago, the newspapers had a field day at our school. Someone allowed a reporter into the school. He then created a falsified story of how our school allowed seven school children to commit suicide. The reason for these suicides was supposedly because of bullying. Nothing could have been further from the truth!
The truth is that three did commit suicide, by hanging, that year. But none of them was because of bullying....Instead of allowing this sad situation to die, it went on and on with even further lies and distortions by the newspapers.
At one time I was a journalism student. I don't ever recall taking a class on how to lie and distort the truth. It is a tricky thing to keep your newpaper from being sued. I guess trickery is something you learn, by working for a newspaper....
Two years ago, the newspapers had a field day at our school. Someone allowed a reporter into the school. He then created a falsified story of how our school allowed seven school children to commit suicide. The reason for these suicides was supposedly because of bullying. Nothing could have been further from the truth!
The truth is that three did commit suicide, by hanging, that year. But none of them was because of bullying....Instead of allowing this sad situation to die, it went on and on with even further lies and distortions by the newspapers.
At one time I was a journalism student. I don't ever recall taking a class on how to lie and distort the truth. It is a tricky thing to keep your newpaper from being sued. I guess trickery is something you learn, by working for a newspaper....
jgoose71 0
Maybe it's because I grew up in the stix, but everyone acted right in school or they saw the principle and went before the "board of education" which was a hand carved native american canoe paddle......
Students acted right, and learned.....
While I am ranting, the other thing that really bothers me today and I think is causing "Mental Health Problems" in our youth is the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality.
We are not preparing our kids for the real world when we do that. The first time they "loose" at something, they don't know how to handle it. Whether it's not getting the job or college they want or their boss telling them they didn't do a good enough job.
In life, you will sometimes come up short. If you grew up knowing that sometimes you loose, and that you need to go back, practice, try harder, keep a positive attitude and not quit, you would eventually win.
Now a days, because so many kids are coddled, the first time they loose, they don't know how to handle it. It goes back to the parents. A kid needs parents to teach him or her these life lessons. We are so worried about hurting their self esteem they never learn these life lessons, and have a complete melt down when things don't go there way. It's time to pull the score board out of the moth balls and put it back up at the T-ball field, for the kids that still might know what T-ball is.....
And we wonder why kids feel like they deserve a trophy for showing up....
"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything
Life, the Universe, and Everything
kallend 2,026
Quote
Another thing people don't tend to talk about is the lack of discipline in schools. Schools are where most kids learn social interaction now a days because parents are affair to let their kids out of the house. Either that, or your a bad parent with no control of your kid if you do. Teachers unions, which are more concerned about the teachers than the students, have removed pretty much all ability to discipline from the schools, so the kids pretty much just run amok. They are just practicing what they saw on MTV. No one is telling them "no"
NOPE. Parents, lawyers and elected school boards have hamstrung the teachers' ability to provide effective discipline. Nothing to do with teachers' unions.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
jgoose71 0
QuoteQuote
Another thing people don't tend to talk about is the lack of discipline in schools. Schools are where most kids learn social interaction now a days because parents are affair to let their kids out of the house. Either that, or your a bad parent with no control of your kid if you do. Teachers unions, which are more concerned about the teachers than the students, have removed pretty much all ability to discipline from the schools, so the kids pretty much just run amok. They are just practicing what they saw on MTV. No one is telling them "no"
NOPE. Parents, lawyers and elected school boards have hamstrung the teachers' ability to provide effective discipline. Nothing to do with teachers' unions.
If I was a teacher, I would say that too....
"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything
Life, the Universe, and Everything
steve1 5
QuoteMaybe it's because I grew up in the stix, but everyone acted right in school or they saw the principle and went before the "board of education" which was a hand carved native american canoe paddle......
Students acted right, and learned.....
While I am ranting, the other thing that really bothers me today and I think is causing "Mental Health Problems" in our youth is the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality.
We are not preparing our kids for the real world when we do that. The first time they "loose" at something, they don't know how to handle it. Whether it's not getting the job or college they want or their boss telling them they didn't do a good enough job.
In life, you will sometimes come up short. If you grew up knowing that sometimes you loose, and that you need to go back, practice, try harder, keep a positive attitude and not quit, you would eventually win.
Now a days, because so many kids are coddled, the first time they loose, they don't know how to handle it. It goes back to the parents. A kid needs parents to teach him or her these life lessons. We are so worried about hurting their self esteem they never learn these life lessons, and have a complete melt down when things don't go there way. It's time to pull the score board out of the moth balls and put it back up at the T-ball field, for the kids that still might know what T-ball is.....
And we wonder why kids feel like they deserve a trophy for showing up....
...........................................................
I agree with most of this. Another thing that really messes kids up, is doing everything for them, and not being able to say "no".
Some parents, for whatever reason, desperately try to over-protect their child. Sometimes it's almost ridiculous. The kid never learns to handle things himself and they feel entitled to everything.
My daughter had a boyfriend like that. The lazy bum, wouldn't work. After all Mama had always provided for him. My daughter was his new Mama. He'd tell everyone how he was going to open a gym or become rich being an athletic trainer. I was truly happy when my daughter dumped this guy. He was Narcistic as could be, and his Mom was to fault.
And how do you treat someone who is narcistic. I've heard it's next to impossible. It usually comes to the attention of everyone when they start beating their spouse.
Years ago, they used to have award ceremonies in some schools. Everyone was given an award, because they didn't want anyone to feel bad. This was supposed to boost every students self esteem. But it didn't work that way. The students soon realized that most of the awards were a joke, and meant nothing. It did little or nothing to help someone with low self esteem...
QuoteYears ago, they used to have award ceremonies in some schools. Everyone was given an award, because they didn't want anyone to feel bad.
It devalues actual accomplishment. I myself always aimed for and got "most improved."
My wife is hotter than your wife.
You hit it in the head with this one.
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