PiLFy 3
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Quote"Both were symbols for the losing side in a war that had racist roots."
Both Wars' roots were financial, not racial.
I think you'd have a hard time convincing 19th century American negroes and 20th century European jews of this.
Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)
(drink Mountain Dew)
wmw999 2,447
I'm perfectly willing to believe they were financial, because slaves weren't people, they were assets. The war was fought, in part, because of that disconnect.
The economy of some of the South was reliant on slave labor; that's definitely an economic impact. But it's disingenuous to say there isn't a racial component to it as well. The fact that one side didn't consider that to be relevant because they weren't people doesn't make that true.
Wendy P.
The economy of some of the South was reliant on slave labor; that's definitely an economic impact. But it's disingenuous to say there isn't a racial component to it as well. The fact that one side didn't consider that to be relevant because they weren't people doesn't make that true.
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
PiLFy 3
"I think you'd have a hard time convincing 19th century American negroes and 20th century European jews of this."
It's all right there in the history books, Dave.
It's all right there in the history books, Dave.
PiLFy 3
http://www.angelfire.com/my/abrahamlincoln/Quotes.html
"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union." (Letter to Horace Greeley, August 22, 1862)
A factor in the conflict? Of course it was. The reason why it was fought? Absolutely not.
Germany went to war for financial reasons, plain & simple.
"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union." (Letter to Horace Greeley, August 22, 1862)
A factor in the conflict? Of course it was. The reason why it was fought? Absolutely not.
Germany went to war for financial reasons, plain & simple.
DaVinci 0
Quote>It's a sign of pride, heritage, history. It's used by douche bags who do not know the
>real meaning . . .
Agreed. Problem is you never know whether the person flying it is a douche bag or not.
That does not mean:
1. That it should be banned
2. That you can assume that everyone is a douche bag that has one.
billvon 2,991
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>That does not mean:
>1. That it should be banned
>2. That you can assume that everyone is a douche bag that has one.
Agreed; it's a tough nut to crack. Ideal would be to just ban douchebags but there are some practical problems there.
>1. That it should be banned
>2. That you can assume that everyone is a douche bag that has one.
Agreed; it's a tough nut to crack. Ideal would be to just ban douchebags but there are some practical problems there.
Quotehttp://www.angelfire.com/my/abrahamlincoln/Quotes.html
"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union." (Letter to Horace Greeley, August 22, 1862)
A factor in the conflict? Of course it was. The reason why it was fought? Absolutely not.
Revising history are we?
Let me ask you...Had the issue of secession not been the reason, would there have been a war?
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
PiLFy 3
I'm not revising anything. It's all in the books. Read it. Yes, there still would have been a war.
QuoteQuotehttp://www.angelfire.com/my/abrahamlincoln/Quotes.html
"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union." (Letter to Horace Greeley, August 22, 1862)
A factor in the conflict? Of course it was. The reason why it was fought? Absolutely not.
Revising history are we?
Let me ask you...Had the issue of secession not been the reason, would there have been a war?
Sees like, someone, somewhere, is trying to 'revise' some portion or another of our history. In regard to the 'Stars and Bars', just like the U.S. flag, has been met with some form of abuse. Someone got their feelings hurt because they saw the Stars and Bars as something else. They never thought to research the real meaning of the flag. To me, it's a symbol of the South and if, the South is so bad, why are so many people from all-over flocking to live in the South? When they get there, they want it like the place they left behind.
Chuck
billvon 2,991
>why are so many people from all-over flocking to live in the South? When they get
>there, they want it like the place they left behind.
Yep. I think that's a nearly universal desire in people - to make a new home like the old one.
>there, they want it like the place they left behind.
Yep. I think that's a nearly universal desire in people - to make a new home like the old one.
Quote>why are so many people from all-over flocking to live in the South? When they get
>there, they want it like the place they left behind.
Yep. I think that's a nearly universal desire in people - to make a new home like the old one.
...and that's why, all the towns and big cities look like 'cookie-cutters'. They're losing their 'individuality'. If, they want what they had... why move?
Chuck
QuoteI'm not revising anything. It's all in the books. Read it. Yes, there still would have been a war.
OK. We differ.
Maybe we are not reading the same books. We differ on the reasons and we differ on the supposition question I proposed to you.
None of the books I read said, in paraphrase, "we're going to war to stop the South's stance on slavery."
The books I read said, in paraphrase, "We are going to war to assert Federal authority to prevent the dissolution of the union of states", on the one side, and on the other, in paraphrase, "We are going to war to assert state's rights of self-determination."
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
As long as we are talking of President Lincoln's quotes, here's couple from his 1861 Inaugural Address that seemingly conflict....
- "I hold that, in contemplation of universal law and of the Constitution, the Union of these States is perpetual. Perpetuity is implied, if not expressed, in the fundamental law of all national governments. It is safe to assert that no government proper ever had a provision in its organic law for its own termination."
- "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it."
- "I hold that, in contemplation of universal law and of the Constitution, the Union of these States is perpetual. Perpetuity is implied, if not expressed, in the fundamental law of all national governments. It is safe to assert that no government proper ever had a provision in its organic law for its own termination."
- "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it."
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Quote
Yep. I think that's a nearly universal desire in people - to make a new home like the old one.
...and that's why, all the towns and big cities look like 'cookie-cutters'. They're losing their 'individuality'. If, they want what they had... why move?
We could all move to the cold-ass north and change things around up there, right?
Ummmmm....No.
I say let the Canadians move south just a little...but not too much.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
PiLFy 3
"Maybe we are not reading the same books."
Books are only a starting point. I think for myself.
Books are only a starting point. I think for myself.
QuoteQuote
Yep. I think that's a nearly universal desire in people - to make a new home like the old one.
...and that's why, all the towns and big cities look like 'cookie-cutters'. They're losing their 'individuality'. If, they want what they had... why move?
We could all move to the cold-ass north and change things around up there, right?
Ummmmm....No.
I say let the Canadians move south just a little...but not too much.
Always thinkin'... aren't you?
Chuck
Quote
The books I read said, in paraphrase, "We are going to war to assert Federal authority to prevent the dissolution of the union of states", on the one side, and on the other, in paraphrase, "We are going to war to assert state's rights of self-determination."
It's not a book but I suggest you read this--it is South Carolina's Declaration of Succession:
"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"
Both Wars' roots were financial, not racial.
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