muff528 3
Quote.....
I have noticed that most who bashed Bush for going into Ira were pretty silent when Obama went into Libya.
Well, to be fair he never really committed to the Libya cluster. He was waiting to see which way the wind ended up blowing before getting his hands too dirty. I don't think he waited long enough before taking credit. Too much can (and will) happen there yet.
grimmie 186
Blood for money...
The worlds rent a cops...
QuoteBlood for money...
The worldsrent a cops...Gangster Protection Collectors!
Expecting to be paid for attacking someone is OBSCENE.
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
tkhayes 348
Winsor, that is a brilliant piece of writing - thanks. Could not have said it better myself.
+1
+1
tkhayes 348
QuoteThe Man who did the forward for the book said it would "quiet" a few who say the WMD's never existed.
There may very well have been WMDs at some point, Iraq and Iran fought a war for years. However to say that it was a valid reason for an invasion is bunk. Because there were NONE, nada, zip, ziltch, zero.
There are books out there with good reasons to suggest that 9/11 was a government plot and that the sky is filled with green spaghetti monsters too.
Andy9o8 2
You're saying they're green? That's bullshit.
DanG 1
QuoteI have noticed that most who bashed Bush for going into Iraq were pretty silent when Obama went into Libya.
I realize your ODS is advanced, but are you really equating the war in Iraq to the war in Libya?
- Dan G
mircan 0
QuotePretty much.
It never ceases to amaze me that people seem to think we are some kind of American Superman, bringing Truth, Justice and the American Way to the oppressed peoples of the world.
Okay, so Despots A, B, C and so forth are very, very bad people. Countries Alpha, Beta, Gamma, etc. are woefully corrupt. What should we do about this terrible state of affairs? Beyond sending them sympathy cards, not much.
+1
There were also times when US greatly supported "Despots A, B, C" when that was in the interest of US. So this "Truth, justice and the American Way" is just a catchphrase for the masses.
The main thing is that everybody should ditch this "political correctness" sh*t and name thing like they are, e.g. "We didn`t like "Despots A, B, C". We thought that "Despots A, B, C" are bad for US. We want some of their oil. So we killed them.
And you can`t do sh*t about it so suck it up and join us or we`ll get back to you once we`re done with them.
dudeist skydiver #42
QuoteQuoteI have noticed that most who bashed Bush for going into Iraq were pretty silent when Obama went into Libya.
I realize your ODS is advanced, but are you really equating the war in Iraq to the war in Libya?
Nope. but please feel free to twist it around till it fits your view.
Quote
QuotePS Any one here read General George Sada's book "Sadams Secrets"? I am still looking for it myself. The Man who did the forward for the book said it would "quiet" a few who say the WMD's never existed.
How so?
I have never met the man, but the COL who did the Forward to his book I have spent a few days with.
GEN Sada's claim matches with some of the Border Guards we questioned in 2003, as well as several shipping labels we found from France and Germany.
But we still need not have been in Iraq, at least not at that time for those reasons.
Matt
This guy Sada sounds like a piece of work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Sada
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!
So, start being safe, first!!!
jclalor 12
QuoteQuoteQuote
***PS Any one here read General George Sada's book "Sadams Secrets"? I am still looking for it myself. The Man who did the forward for the book said it would "quiet" a few who say the WMD's never existed.
How so?
I have never met the man, but the COL who did the Forward to his book I have spent a few days with.
GEN Sada's claim matches with some of the Border Guards we questioned in 2003, as well as several shipping labels we found from France and Germany.
But we still need not have been in Iraq, at least not at that time for those reasons.
Matt
This guy Sada sounds like a piece of work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Sada
He was the #2 man in the Iraqi air force, he had been a member of the Iraqi military for almost 40 years. Once his country is defeated, he all of a sudden is on our side. I don't believe a word he says.
for every Iraqi General that claims they had WMD during the UN inspections, there are 10 more Iraqi generals that say they had destroyed them all after the first gulf war, but wanted to give the impression they still had them for a deterrent to Iran and that they did not back down to the US..
I do not think he is 100% honest, but I also do not think he is making it up.
There are others backing his story as well. Even a Congressional report says he could be right.
BUT
It does not change the fact we need not have been there to begin with.
Now that we are gone, the Kurd's are fucked.
Matt
There are others backing his story as well. Even a Congressional report says he could be right.
BUT
It does not change the fact we need not have been there to begin with.
Now that we are gone, the Kurd's are fucked.
Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!
So, start being safe, first!!!
QuoteQuoteThe Man who did the forward for the book said it would "quiet" a few who say the WMD's never existed.
There may very well have been WMDs at some point, Iraq and Iran fought a war for years. However to say that it was a valid reason for an invasion is bunk. Because there were NONE, nada, zip, ziltch, zero.
which was only definitively determined after the invasion. Now if you want to say that the 8 year occupation wasn't justified, you're right. But in addition to the GOP state makers, we had a horde of Democrats, many posting here, who insisted that once we got there, we were responsible to stay until it was all good. I wonder if that was their entire motivation, or if they expected the outcome we saw now, and just wanted Bush to get tagged with that mess. Hope not, since he didn't really pay the price that many soldiers and civilians did. We could have been out in 2004.
Andy9o8 2
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe Man who did the forward for the book said it would "quiet" a few who say the WMD's never existed.
There may very well have been WMDs at some point, Iraq and Iran fought a war for years. However to say that it was a valid reason for an invasion is bunk. Because there were NONE, nada, zip, ziltch, zero.
which was only definitively determined after the invasion.
Which is really beside the point. Even if the Bush Admin chickenhawks believed Iraq still had some stores of mustard gas, et al., that wasn't the reason they went into Iraq, that was the excuse. They went in because they suddenly had The Power, they knew The Power would be theirs only fleetingly, and this was their chance to go seriously kick some ass, and not just twiddle around Afghanistan where Bin Laden was making fools of them, and nobody could see them swinging their dicks.
Eight years later, we're all still paying for Dick Cheney's, Karl Rove's and Paul Wolfowitz's draft deferments.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe Man who did the forward for the book said it would "quiet" a few who say the WMD's never existed.
There may very well have been WMDs at some point, Iraq and Iran fought a war for years. However to say that it was a valid reason for an invasion is bunk. Because there were NONE, nada, zip, ziltch, zero.
which was only definitively determined after the invasion.
Which is really beside the point. Even if the Bush Admin chickenhawks believed Iraq still had some stores of mustard gas, et al., that wasn't the reason they went into Iraq, that was the excuse. They went in because they suddenly had The Power, they knew The Power would be theirs only fleetingly, and this was their chance to go seriously kick some ass, and not just twiddle around Afghanistan where Bin Laden was making fools of them, and nobody could see them swinging their dicks.
Eight years later, we're all still paying for Dick Cheney's, Karl Rove's and Paul Wolfowitz's draft deferments.
More left-wing blather. Complete fantasy dreamed up from spending too much time on radical left-wing sites lapping up their Bush hating propoganda.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe Man who did the forward for the book said it would "quiet" a few who say the WMD's never existed.
There may very well have been WMDs at some point, Iraq and Iran fought a war for years. However to say that it was a valid reason for an invasion is bunk. Because there were NONE, nada, zip, ziltch, zero.
which was only definitively determined after the invasion.
Which is really beside the point. Even if the Bush Admin chickenhawks believed Iraq still had some stores of mustard gas, et al., that wasn't the reason they went into Iraq, that was the excuse. They went in because they suddenly had The Power, they knew The Power would be theirs only fleetingly, and this was their chance to go seriously kick some ass, and not just twiddle around Afghanistan where Bin Laden was making fools of them, and nobody could see them swinging their dicks.
Eight years later, we're all still paying for Dick Cheney's, Karl Rove's and Paul Wolfowitz's draft deferments.
oh, no doubt, it was the justification given, but not the primary motivation. But when opposers jump on the failure to find any as proof that the threat wasn't real, that's monday morning quarterbacking.
(And Congress was fully aware of all of this)
grimmie 186
The war is not a right vs. left issue, it is a right from wrong issue.
It was a very bad idea, conducted on suspect reasons, by poorly trained individuals(not the military) that will cost our nation trillions of dollars. That is fact. Spin it however you feel...
It was a very bad idea, conducted on suspect reasons, by poorly trained individuals(not the military) that will cost our nation trillions of dollars. That is fact. Spin it however you feel...
QuoteThe war is not a right vs. left issue, it is a right from wrong issue.
It was a very bad idea, conducted on suspect reasons, by poorly trained individuals(not the military) that will cost our nation trillions of dollars. That is fact. Spin it however you feel...
The you would agree that Iraq should pay us back some of the money we spent? Or should we allow them to become another deadbeat nation that owes the U.S for their freedom?
Andy9o8 2
QuoteQuoteThe war is not a right vs. left issue, it is a right from wrong issue.
It was a very bad idea, conducted on suspect reasons, by poorly trained individuals(not the military) that will cost our nation trillions of dollars. That is fact. Spin it however you feel...
The you would agree that Iraq should pay us back some of the money we spent? Or should we allow them to become another deadbeat nation that owes the U.S for their freedom?
You're not even trying to respond to people's points. Nobody's listening to you any more.
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe war is not a right vs. left issue, it is a right from wrong issue.
It was a very bad idea, conducted on suspect reasons, by poorly trained individuals(not the military) that will cost our nation trillions of dollars. That is fact. Spin it however you feel...
The you would agree that Iraq should pay us back some of the money we spent? Or should we allow them to become another deadbeat nation that owes the U.S for their freedom?
You're not even trying to respond to people's points. Nobody's listening to you any more.
Except, apparently you.
What point did you think I should have been responding to? One of them that allows you a path to run down screaming "I hate Bush"?
winsor 236
QuoteQuoteThe war is not a right vs. left issue, it is a right from wrong issue.
It was a very bad idea, conducted on suspect reasons, by poorly trained individuals(not the military) that will cost our nation trillions of dollars. That is fact. Spin it however you feel...
The you would agree that Iraq should pay us back some of the money we spent? Or should we allow them to become another deadbeat nation that owes the U.S for their freedom?
If, up front, someone in authority had said "please, please, please free us from our bondage - we will give you oil and gold beyond your wildest dreams if you can only help us," there might be a case for us to say that we could use some of the promised resources.
For us to invade their country, overthrow their government, and drive around for years blowing things and people up (all the while bitching about how some of the people don't like it and are thus mean to us) and then expect to be rewarded for our "good deeds" is nothing short of ludicrous.
If we were all that concerned about the bottom line, we would have avoided going to war in the first place. Anyone who is unaware that combat is prohibitively expensive has not done their homework. Sun Tzu made note of the benefit of using Intelligence to avoid costly conflict; the best we could do is to use Stupidity to render ourselves bankrupt.
Our involvement in the Sandbox has been a national embarrassment - and an expensive one at that. I wish I could be confident that we won't do it again at the drop of a hat.
BSBD,
Winsor
That's the silliest comment I have ever heard you make. I thought you wanted the US to be reimbursed with half of a nation's wealth to help them overthrow their brutal dictators?
Perhaps you can list just the top ten brutal dictators we should start with?
Sigh...I'm NOT advocating we go arounf overthrowing disctators. Especially when it's not directly in our national interest. I"m simply agreeing wit Trump that IF Congress approves a military action, that we should recieve some compensation. Do I need to repeat that I'm NOT advocating getting involved in any military actions?
I have noticed that most who bashed Bush for going into Iraq were pretty silent when Obama went into Libya.