normiss 806 #201 December 30, 2011 We've also locked away a few former military for espionage when they did not share any valid information, just junk put there to trip up the idiots. That's part of what some people are missing here. Doesn't matter WHAT he released. It is clearly against the law to do so. Shoot him, hang him, lock him away for life - your choice, his decision. I don't personally support the death penalty, but I realize we as a society do. Just like locking away those that would risk the entire nation because they're self righteous idiots who think they know better when they clearly do not. If the big bad military is doing something illegal there are and have been other ways to make those facts known. Those that decry a transparent society make me wonder where they would draw the line of unshared information in their own lives and business practices. Some of those businesses put people's lives' at risk continually, yet refuse to share any information publicly. Maybe they need a Bradley Manning in their midst. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #202 December 30, 2011 >and now if the guy/gal is a medic/intelligence officer who has been called to an >emergency where dozens are about to lose their lives - do the police arrest the 'drunk' >or escort them to the scene of the emergency... Arrest him I hope - both to prevent him from killing anyone enroute to the accident and to prevent a drunk responder from killing people with a scalpel or a defibrillator. "But offischer - I'm an intelligensche offischer and I watch House all the time!' But we can extend that to a lot of cases. How about if the drunken guy/gal is a pilot who has been called to the airport to fly a critically ill patient to a transplant in another city? Should they arrest him or escort him to the cockpit? (Might have to carry him a little of the way) How about if the drunken guy/gal us a brain surgeon enroute to a delicate operation? Should they arrest him, or escort him into the ER and hand him the scalpel? How about if the drunken guy/gal us a school bus driver enroute to his job? Should they arrest him, or escort him to the bus lot to ensure he gets lots of bright-eyed students to class? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #203 December 30, 2011 Quote We've also locked away a few former military for espionage when they did not share any valid information, just junk put there to trip up the idiots. That's part of what some people are missing here. Doesn't matter WHAT he released. It is clearly against the law to do so. Shoot him, hang him, lock him away for life - your choice, his decision. I don't personally support the death penalty, but I realize we as a society do. Just like locking away those that would risk the entire nation because they're self righteous idiots who think they know better when they clearly do not. If the big bad military is doing something illegal there are and have been other ways to make those facts known. Those that decry a transparent society make me wonder where they would draw the line of unshared information in their own lives and business practices. Some of those businesses put people's lives' at risk continually, yet refuse to share any information publicly. Maybe they need a Bradley Manning in their midst. Agreed.... Benedict Manning crossed that line which separates traitor from whistle blower. His life really is over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #204 December 30, 2011 Quote>and now if the guy/gal is a medic/intelligence officer who has been called to an >emergency where dozens are about to lose their lives - do the police arrest the 'drunk' >or escort them to the scene of the emergency... Arrest him I hope? and the bomb goes off that the intelligence officer was about to find and dozens die as a result...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #205 December 30, 2011 the same bomb some bomb tech idiot tried to disarm while intoxicated and killed dozens of his brothers in arms??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #206 December 30, 2011 >and the bomb goes off that the intelligence officer was about to find and dozens >die as a result. Drunk intelligence officers don't find bombs. They tend to - well - be drunk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #207 December 30, 2011 Quotethe same bomb some bomb tech idiot tried to disarm while intoxicated and killed dozens of his brothers in arms??? he'd had one drink (so not 'drunk') and was quite capable of finding the bomb. however the police sticking to the absolute letter of the law arrested him...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #208 December 30, 2011 Quote>and the bomb goes off that the intelligence officer was about to find and dozens >die as a result. Drunk intelligence officers don't find bombs. They tend to - well - be drunk. i'm sure lots of drunk officers find lots of criminals...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #209 December 30, 2011 QuoteQuotethe same bomb some bomb tech idiot tried to disarm while intoxicated and killed dozens of his brothers in arms??? he'd had one drink (so not 'drunk') and was quite capable of finding the bomb. however the police sticking to the absolute letter of the law arrested him... As this "what if" game is all fantasy, it matters not. But you got people thinking, and you got attention for a while out of it. Kudos for both. Manning violated the UCMJ, and was prosecuted for it. It is others like your self that try to justify it as OK for a different reason than the ones even Manning stated. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #210 December 30, 2011 Well...the drunk cunt that killed my best friend wasn't. I'd prefer to see those under the jail. Just like Bradley Manning. We have consequences for our actions. I trust that you know this from personal experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #211 December 30, 2011 >he'd had one drink (so not 'drunk') and was quite capable of finding the bomb. Then no problem. His blood alcohol level is under the legal limit, so the police say "be careful" and send him on his way. You're going to lose this one rather badly. Drunk driving really isn't defensible, no matter what bizarre rationale you concoct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #212 December 30, 2011 Quotehe'd had one drink (so not 'drunk') LOL! It's just one drink, now, no longer drunk? Where up-thread was that part of the hypothetical fact pattern? You get yourself so busy making up supposedly real "facts", you can't even keep track of when you falsify the hypothetical ones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #213 December 30, 2011 Quoteno one was prosecuted for opening fire on children from a helicopter. No one was even reprimanded. or maybe they were - or is that a secret too? Is that the best they can come up with at conspiracy-of-the-day.com? Quoteyes a lot is prosecuted that needed to be. Which means, since you heard about it, that *gasp* IT WASN'T SECRET!!! QuoteWhich raises concerns from citizens like me about all the shit they got away with because it is 'secret'. get it? All that stuff that you don't know if it even happened or not...but it just *MUST* have because they didn't open up every single document for your personal verification, right? You make it more and more clear with every post that you have absolutely NO clue what classification entails. QuotePerhaps it might lead to the impeachment of a president or even a war crimes prosecution. get it? Ah, yes....the burning 'must.get.Bush' drive. Maybe you should talk to a professional about that. Quoteno secrets. no wars. I like that. There is no evidence to support your claim that 'no secrets' will result in 'no wars'. It's even MORE ludicrous to think that the entire world will bow to your whim.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #214 December 30, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuotethe same bomb some bomb tech idiot tried to disarm while intoxicated and killed dozens of his brothers in arms??? he'd had one drink (so not 'drunk') and was quite capable of finding the bomb. however the police sticking to the absolute letter of the law arrested him... As this "what if" game is all fantasy, billvon's fantasy example - not mine...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #215 December 30, 2011 Quote>he'd had one drink (so not 'drunk') and was quite capable of finding the bomb. Then no problem. His blood alcohol level is under the legal limit, so the police say "be careful" and send him on his way. You're going to lose this one rather badly. Drunk driving really isn't defensible, no matter what bizarre rationale you concoct. drunk driving isn't defensible - except under 'not normal' conditions. then a judgement call has to be made. for instance this guy should/should not have been allowed to conduct a war... QuoteChurchill was – and remains – in a league of his own, boasting: "I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me." His tastes were catholic and his appetite powerful, though he is usually associated with Pol Roger champagne and brandy. It was part of his image, along with the Havana cigars, at a time when lapses by public figures were more closely protected by their friends and the media. Any suggestions of drunkenness in the Commons were usually a matter of private speculation and Labour MP Bessie Braddock's remark – "Winston, you are drunk" – is apocryphal. So is his ungallant reply: "Bessie, you are ugly, but tomorrow I shall be sober." http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2010/sep/02/prime-ministers-and-alcoholstay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #216 December 30, 2011 >for instance this guy should/should not have been allowed to conduct a war... You just contradicted yourself. Again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #217 December 30, 2011 Quote and now if the guy/gal is a medic/intelligence officer who has been called to an emergency where dozens are about to lose their lives - do the police arrest the 'drunk' or escort them to the scene of the emergency... It's pretty simple, and obvious to anyone that's had a job with on call responsibilities. When a medic is on call, he or she does not get drunk. A drunk medic is not the savior you think. Same applies to me - I get paid for this time on call and it would be unprofessional to be in a state where I could cost the company millions. And spies on call to find bombs? You watch 24 a lot? Let's get back to the real world, where drunk driving kills tens of thousands of Americans each year. If the spy is that important, he can take a taxi. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #218 December 30, 2011 QuoteQuote and now if the guy/gal is a medic/intelligence officer who has been called to an emergency where dozens are about to lose their lives - do the police arrest the 'drunk' or escort them to the scene of the emergency... It's pretty simple, and obvious to anyone that's had a job with on call responsibilities. When a medic is on call, he or she does not get drunk. A drunk medic is not the savior you think. Same applies to me - I get paid for this time on call and it would be unprofessional to be in a state where I could cost the company millions. And spies on call to find bombs? You watch 24 a lot? Let's get back to the real world, where drunk driving kills tens of thousands of Americans each year. If the spy is that important, he can take a taxi. he can take a taxi - but lose valuable, critical time (ooops i'm into 24 hours land) that bomb goes off... hey, what about my churchill example - should he have been removed from office?stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #219 December 30, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotethe same bomb some bomb tech idiot tried to disarm while intoxicated and killed dozens of his brothers in arms??? he'd had one drink (so not 'drunk') and was quite capable of finding the bomb. however the police sticking to the absolute letter of the law arrested him... As this "what if" game is all fantasy, billvon's fantasy example - not mine... You are the guy who made post #1 right? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #220 December 30, 2011 Quote he can take a taxi - but lose valuable, critical time (ooops i'm into 24 hours land) that bomb goes off... hey, what about my churchill example - should he have been removed from office? Was he driving? If that spy is so essential, the CIA can keep a driver on standby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #221 December 31, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote and now if the guy/gal is a medic/intelligence officer who has been called to an emergency where dozens are about to lose their lives - do the police arrest the 'drunk' or escort them to the scene of the emergency... It's pretty simple, and obvious to anyone that's had a job with on call responsibilities. When a medic is on call, he or she does not get drunk. A drunk medic is not the savior you think. Same applies to me - I get paid for this time on call and it would be unprofessional to be in a state where I could cost the company millions. And spies on call to find bombs? You watch 24 a lot? Let's get back to the real world, where drunk driving kills tens of thousands of Americans each year. If the spy is that important, he can take a taxi. he can take a taxi - but lose valuable, critical time (ooops i'm into 24 hours land) that bomb goes off... hey, what about my churchill example - should he have been removed from office? Lemme ask you this. I want a straight answer. No beating around the bush, no hedging, just a straight-up honest answer. You up for it? Here goes... Would you honestly want a drunk EMT or doctor working on you if, you were in a wreck? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #222 December 31, 2011 you have your idealism and I have mine. you have as much (or as little) proof (that you are requesting from me) that yours works any better than mine. In fact, you have NO evidence that yours works any better. so once again, as expected, we disagree, surprise surprise and I could give a shit. You have yours and I have mine. No secrets. It's the wold I want. my vote at least may negate yours, and vice versa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #223 December 31, 2011 QuoteIn fact, you have NO evidence that yours works any better. Sure I do - it's called historical fact. You know, things like the successful invasion at Normandy, etc etc etc. QuoteNo secrets. It's the wold I want. So you'd be willing to release the financials for the DZ, so we can see if you can actually afford to get insurance for your employees, right?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fossg 0 #224 December 31, 2011 The little piece of crap betryed his country. God only know how mny GIs got killed or maimed for his treachery. Not to mention the sources that were compromised and dissapered. You don't care about that stuff do you dreamdancer. Let others do the fighting and you just sit on the sidelines and complain about how fucked up this nation is and how barbaric its military is..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #225 December 31, 2011 QuoteQuoteIn fact, you have NO evidence that yours works any better. Sure I do - it's called historical fact. You know, things like the successful invasion at Normandy, etc etc etc. QuoteNo secrets. It's the wold I want. So you'd be willing to release the financials for the DZ, so we can see if you can actually afford to get insurance for your employees, right? Mike, This is not the first time I have heard of this challenge about TK and his operation. Even under Obama Care, he would not qualify to require paying health care (needs about 50 employess, not contractors(packers, as long as he isn't micromanaging their process), or pilots (if he own the planes, then they can be considered statutory employees) to subsidize. Did I miss a Moral or Legal debate?_____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
