dreamdancer 0 #226 December 31, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote and now if the guy/gal is a medic/intelligence officer who has been called to an emergency where dozens are about to lose their lives - do the police arrest the 'drunk' or escort them to the scene of the emergency... It's pretty simple, and obvious to anyone that's had a job with on call responsibilities. When a medic is on call, he or she does not get drunk. A drunk medic is not the savior you think. Same applies to me - I get paid for this time on call and it would be unprofessional to be in a state where I could cost the company millions. And spies on call to find bombs? You watch 24 a lot? Let's get back to the real world, where drunk driving kills tens of thousands of Americans each year. If the spy is that important, he can take a taxi. he can take a taxi - but lose valuable, critical time (ooops i'm into 24 hours land) that bomb goes off... hey, what about my churchill example - should he have been removed from office? Lemme ask you this. I want a straight answer. No beating around the bush, no hedging, just a straight-up honest answer. You up for it? Here goes... Would you honestly want a drunk EMT or doctor working on you if, you were in a wreck? Chuck i'd rather have a drunk one (and there are varying degrees of drunkenness) helping me than no-one at all...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #227 December 31, 2011 QuoteSo you'd be willing to release the financials for the DZ, so we can see if you can actually afford to get insurance for your employees, right? There's a huge difference between government secrets and private secrets. Just like there is a huge difference between government speech and private freedom of speech. you should really try to read the Constitution once in a while for a guy who claims so often to be so "Behind its true meaning", you have clearly demonstrated again and again that you are willing to give up the Constitution and its freedoms in order to protect the Constitution and its freedoms. Not to mention that it is off-topic and has already been adequately answered a dozen times already. Start another thread on healthcare and I will be glad to debate it again if you dare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #228 December 31, 2011 Quote In Reply To no one was prosecuted for opening fire on children from a helicopter. No one was even reprimanded. or maybe they were - or is that a secret too? Is that the best they can come up with at conspiracy-of-the-day.com? No it's not the best we can do - but it is a real-life example of the military murdering civilians, caught on video, and if it was not for an insider leaking it, it would have remained a secret. Therefore clearly PROVING that there are actually "conspiracy theories" as you call them. SO yes, even though you deny their existence, there are cases where government and military secrecy is a bad thing. They opened fire on unarmed civilians that were doing nothing. Then when the people came to help, contrary to the Geneva Conventions, they opened fire on them and children. That is murder. If they were caught in the cross-fire in a ground battle or something like that, I could almost understand the incident as being 'part of the casualties of war', but that was not even remotely the case. Supreme firepower, absolute power, corrupted absolutely at the highest level and used to take the lives of innocent people without due cause in a war that was fought for no reason whatsoever. If the discussions between GWB, the Whitehouse and the the CIA were made public before we invaded Iraq (instead of being kept 'secret'), i doubt highly that the public would have bought it and we never would have been there. But instead, the 'secrets' allowed Colin Powell to sit at the UN in front of the world and lie through his teeth about the intelligence that we had in Iraq. Even I bought it. It was wrong and the entire Cabinet of the government at that time should be put on trial for war crimes. But of course that will never happen because Americans don't care about brown-skinned people that live in the middle east. - they are totally expendable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #229 December 31, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote and now if the guy/gal is a medic/intelligence officer who has been called to an emergency where dozens are about to lose their lives - do the police arrest the 'drunk' or escort them to the scene of the emergency... It's pretty simple, and obvious to anyone that's had a job with on call responsibilities. When a medic is on call, he or she does not get drunk. A drunk medic is not the savior you think. Same applies to me - I get paid for this time on call and it would be unprofessional to be in a state where I could cost the company millions. And spies on call to find bombs? You watch 24 a lot? Let's get back to the real world, where drunk driving kills tens of thousands of Americans each year. If the spy is that important, he can take a taxi. he can take a taxi - but lose valuable, critical time (ooops i'm into 24 hours land) that bomb goes off... hey, what about my churchill example - should he have been removed from office? Lemme ask you this. I want a straight answer. No beating around the bush, no hedging, just a straight-up honest answer. You up for it? Here goes... Would you honestly want a drunk EMT or doctor working on you if, you were in a wreck? Chuck i'd rather have a drunk one (and there are varying degrees of drunkenness) helping me than no-one at all... Good luck with that! ... Perhaps you'd like a drunk rigger to I&R your reserve? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #230 December 31, 2011 The constitution DOES NOT APPYL to military personnel!!!!! He waived those rights WILLINGLY when he voluntarily went into service. Throw him under the brig already. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #231 December 31, 2011 Sure is difficult to spot those enemy combatant uniforms that clearly identify them separately from the civilians. My nephew is home now and STILL struggling with this demon. He's convinced he killed innocent civilians. That's the way the enemy combatants want to play the game and we suffer the bad press from it. What's your solution?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #232 December 31, 2011 Which video are we talking about? I have seen one where the individuals are moving weapons from a truck and hiding them in a ditch, but I do not recall this one. I would like to see it, if possible, to understand why it is the oft repeated talking point. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aphid 0 #233 December 31, 2011 If I recall, Reuters News was the first to make it publicly available, but from a couple of comments, did this footage not air in the USA? Mind you, it does seem to have quietly disappeared since it was first released. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #234 December 31, 2011 QuoteNo it's not the best we can do - but it is a real-life example of the military murdering civilians, caught on video, and if it was not for an insider leaking it, it would have remained a secret. More bullshit conspiracy-of-the-day crap...unless, of course, you have different audio than what I've heard, where they thought the man was holding an RPG and about to shoot them with it. So by all means, please provide this *other* video with the audio stating "I know they're kids...shoot!" QuoteTherefore clearly PROVING that there are actually "conspiracy theories" as you call them. Yeah, I just debunked yours, above. QuoteSO yes, even though you deny their existence, there are cases where government and military secrecy is a bad thing. Debunked. QuoteThen when the people came to help, contrary to the Geneva Conventions, they opened fire on them and children. That is murder. And again...debunked. QuoteIf they were caught in the cross-fire in a ground battle or something like that, I could almost understand the incident as being 'part of the casualties of war', but that was not even remotely the case. And again...debunked. QuoteSupreme firepower, absolute power, corrupted absolutely at the highest level and used to take the lives of innocent people without due cause in a war that was fought for no reason whatsoever. Did you crib that unproven list from Alex Jones, or some other site?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #235 December 31, 2011 QuoteWhich video are we talking about? I have seen one where the individuals are moving weapons from a truck and hiding them in a ditch, but I do not recall this one. I would like to see it, if possible, to understand why it is the oft repeated talking point. Matt It was a 'rhys special' from last year - there was a strategy page article commenting on it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #236 December 31, 2011 QuoteIf I recall, Reuters News was the first to make it publicly available, but from a couple of comments, did this footage not air in the USA? Mind you, it does seem to have quietly disappeared since it was first released. Does it match the description of the one linked in post 235? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aphid 0 #237 December 31, 2011 By my recollection, one and the same. Thanks for the link, by the way. John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #238 December 31, 2011 if it wasn't murder why keep the video secret? (and all the others)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #239 December 31, 2011 Quoteif it wasn't murder why keep the video secret? (and all the others) Various posters have told you why, countless times throughout this thread, ad nauseum. Yet, you continue to ask the same sily question. Give it a rest, will ya'... geeeze... Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #240 December 31, 2011 if you've got nothing to hide - why the secrets? why can't we have access to all the gunship footage we've paid for...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #241 December 31, 2011 QuoteBy my recollection, one and the same. Thanks for the link, by the way. John No problem...here's another debunking the video.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #242 December 31, 2011 Quoteif you've got nothing to hide - why the secrets? why can't we have access to all the gunship footage we've paid for... I wasn't aware Thailand *had* gunships, but go ahead and demand that footage you've paid for.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #243 December 31, 2011 Quoteif it wasn't murder why keep the video secret? (and all the others) Because if it really was the intent of the "news" organization to imbed "journalists" with the insurgents "...so that the attack on American or Iraqi forces could be photographed, for use in propaganda videos...", and if their "war crimes" claims based on their manipulation of that video were debunked, then they obviously would want to suppress the video. Otherwise, the rest of the common sense part of the world would doubt their credibility and no one would believe any of their future criminal attempts to manipulate facts ...or even any legitimate news they might accidentally stumble across. That might hurt advertising revenue for them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #244 December 31, 2011 QuoteWhat's your solution?? you're kidding right? no wars. Prosecute the people that put us in there and I bet the next administration does their homework before we go to war again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #245 December 31, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx3_ynHjL-M this one, there are some outt there that are cut and spliced and longer and shorter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #246 December 31, 2011 can't help it if you cannot see the facts. sorry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #247 December 31, 2011 Quoteif you've got nothing to hide - why the secrets? why can't we have access to all the gunship footage we've paid for... I'd like to know what business our, The U.S. of A.'s secrets are to you? You live in Thailand. Far as I'm concerned it's NONYA! Got it? By the way... just how much did you shell-out for all that gunship footage? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #248 December 31, 2011 Quotecan't help it if you cannot see the facts. sorry By "facts" you mean 'conspiracy theorist lies that you swallowed hook, line and sinker', right?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #249 December 31, 2011 Quotehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx3_ynHjL-M this one, there are some outt there that are cut and spliced and longer and shorter. This was the recording Manning lifted out of the JAG files. It was in the Military courts possession. The only thing I see that may be a cause for review was the attacking the van. Probably why it was in their files in the first place. Who told you the Apache pilots got off scott free?_____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #250 January 1, 2012 QuoteWho told you the Apache pilots got off scott free? who told you they didn't? Not just the pilots, but the entire chain of command on that flight - they requested and were given permission to engage if I remember correctly. I expect this was systematic, not an individual 'rogue' gunner, which exemplifies my issues with the 'big picture' and demonstrates systematic problems with fighting these types of wars stop it by NOT fighting these types of wars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
