lawrocket 3 #51 December 29, 2011 QuoteIf you can't walk around freely in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, any time, day or night, because of "class warfare" brought on by abject poverty and lack of opportunities. Yet one can walk around in the abject poverty of Appalachia. It's not a wealth thing. It's a cultural issue. And note that the cultural issue results in demands for money by any means by someone thinking the other has it. Getting mugged for my tofu salad isn't going to happen. Also note: I spent a great deal of time doing things in those areas you discuss. I grew up in one. I tend to do just fine in them because I know how to carry myself. QuoteWe have enough wealth in this country! It just needs to distributed more evenly! There are ways to do that. Yes, I will say that if I can do it, so can they. And I'll be damned if I'm going to let someone else just come in and take what I've worked my ass off for. My wife and I make more than most, and once we pay off student loans maybe we'll enjoy it. Our negative net worths make my wife and I (a doctor and an lawyer) worth less than some nutter out on the street. Nevertheless, one would look at us and say, "TAX THEM!" But we are sorta just kinda eking out a living until our student debt is resolved. But here's the point - I'm not complaining about the wealth that others have. To the contrary, I want them to keep theirs while I build mine. Your whole idea seems to be that by taking wealth and giving it to all that poverty can be ended. Unfortunately, all that has ever happened when that's been tried is that there is no more private wealth, the formerly wealthy are all now living in poverty (unless they've been killed, which often happens) and the government holds all wealth. Check out North Korea to see how that goes. QuoteWorks great for the Scandinavian countries and most of Europe True. It can work well in places that have small populations in a relatively small landmass that are homogenous. Take Sweden. Sweden is the 4th largest country in Europe in terms of land area. It is a bit smaller than the state of California. The country is also 91% Swedes, another 4% other Nordics (Finns, Norwegians) and 5% other. It is not exactly the “melting pot” or e pluribus unum You’ll also note that Sweden experienced rough times from the late sixties on, and as a result implemented spending cuts in the 1990’s that shrank the welfare state and lowered taxes. Of course, Sweden’s taxation is still at about 50% of the GDP, but it’s actually been steadily decreasing the tax rate. Quote Ever seen a high-speed train in the US Nope. In fact, right here in California (and right here in Fresno) there have been plans afoot for a high speed train running between San Diego and San Francisco. The initial building will be right through Fresno. But there are problems. The first problem is that the damn thing is super-expensive! The expected budget for it is already much higher than was estimated previously. The next problem is that politics are controlling much of it. The “high speed train” will become a “not so high speed train” because the damn thing is being planned for stop after stop after stop. Take a look at the route from Los Angeles to San Diego. Distance of 167 miles and an estimated travel time of 1 hour 18 minutes. That’s an average speed of 128 mph. So what’s the problem? It’s that far because the train goes from LA to City of Industry to Ontario to Riverside to Murrietta to Escondido to San Diego. Also, I’ve listed five intermediate stops. Figuring just five minutes per stop, that’s 25 minutes added. They plan on taking Los Angeles to Anaheim in 20 minutes (for a 29 mile trip). So the high speed train won’t end up being so high speed. If I want to go from San Francisco to LA it’ll take me an estimated 2 hours and 27 minutes. It’ll take me an hour by air. The cost of the train ticket between San Fran and LA is expected to run around $150 dollars when it’s done. The plane ticket will be about $80. An Amtrak from there will take 10 or 12 hours and run about $100. For speed, convenience and price we’ve got airplanes. Yet, there is the insistence on moving forward with a damned high speed train that will cost billions, require massive taxpayer subsidies, and with a ridership that will be spotty, at best. Picture it like the Concorde – a really cool thing that people wanted to ride on once before they died. IF the high speed rail works out, it’ll have good ridership the first few months as the train tourists use it. Then it will become a money pit. Meanwhile, planes will continue to be the proven, quick and inexpensive technology that people use for going medium and long distances. It’s how we do it here. But you’re again comparing a European country (with is small land area, homogenous population and concomitant cohesiveness) to a country that can swallow it up. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #52 December 29, 2011 Quote If I want to go from San Francisco to LA it’ll take me an estimated 2 hours and 27 minutes. It’ll take me an hour by air. The cost of the train ticket between San Fran and LA is expected to run around $150 dollars when it’s done. The plane ticket will be about $80. An Amtrak from there will take 10 or 12 hours and run about $100. You're not exactly making a fair comparison here. I fly between SF and OC a fair amount. You rarely can get an $80 fare - that's advanced notice, on a better fare, even with Southwest. It's more commonly in the low 200s RT. With the other airlines, you may be paying for luggage too. With weight limits. And forget about this "an hour by air." We know that is patently false. Flying time is a tad over an hour. Runway taxi time is 5-10 mins on each end. Weather delays plague SFO and can add 20-60 minutes easily. (Oakland is more reliable) And weather delays come just if we have heavy cloud cover because the runways at SFO are too close together - if the vis drops, we lose half the runways. And of course you have to add on the TSA checkpoint and the deadtime you spend in the terminal. Luggage usually needs to be there no less than 30 mins ahead, they advise 2 hour advance check-in (60 is probably sufficient, but not at peak times). When you land, you get a nice walk through the airport and another 20-30 minutes waiting for luggage. Ignoring travel time to/from each airport, I say a more honest value is 3 hours for this. No less than 2:30, the same time this train *might* take. And that $150 is possibly the full rate. I can see a lot of problems with this train actually living up to the numbers in the offering. They're avoiding reality by building in the valley first where there is even less demand. Getting from Pacheco to San Francisco or Oakland is going to be hard. But you have to also consider is that the LA Basin and the Bay Area are tapped out on airport capacity. There will be no more runways built. We already saw the problem in the dotcom boom, but the problem went away with the bust and the drop in air travel due to 9/11. It will come back. And both regions will continue to grow in population. Since adding lanes to I-5 won't really increase capacity, this train may be one of the few ways to increase the pipe between the two regions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charlie5 0 #53 December 29, 2011 Did he ever answer what epic and noble things he has done? Quote Well, if we had a proper tax rate in place, like 90% (incl. inheritance) for everyone above $100M, no loopholes, it'll all be a more cohesive society! What I have done??? Probably more than you ever will! QuoteQuoteAgain, what have you done? It's never about what he can do. Or what we all can do. It's always about what someone else should be made to do.The feather butts bounce off ya like raindrops hitting a battle-star when they come in too fast...kinda funny to watch. - airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #54 December 29, 2011 QuoteDid he ever answer what epic and noble things he has done? Quote Well, if we had a proper tax rate in place, like 90% (incl. inheritance) for everyone above $100M, no loopholes, it'll all be a more cohesive society! What I have done??? Probably more than you ever will! QuoteQuoteAgain, what have you done? It's never about what he can do. Or what we all can do. It's always about what someone else should be made to do. No, which usually adds to - Nothing. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #55 December 29, 2011 BV, now you are !! But really, the American way is not sustainable. Every fourth-world nation (like Afghanistan) kicks the butts of our X-Box warriors. At a price tag of $$$$$$ dollars. Meanwhile, in my street I have a pothole 10 in. deep! Try to circumnavigate that in a Nissan Cube. And at the same time, we are supporting a "money aristocracy", mirroring exactly what we see w/ North Korea's "power aristocracy." It is nuts! And just like North Koreans, Americans outdo themselves wailing and mourning for the rich! And that includes YOU.... Quote>You finally show your true bearings as just another imperialist pig suckling dry the >breasts of the working class that feed you! Cool. Always wanted to be an imperialist pig. >I am ready to become a martyr in the pursuit of happiness for all! But apparently not willing to help them. Interesting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #56 December 29, 2011 no trolling here, no siree! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #57 December 29, 2011 Now, let's be real here! You wouldn't exactly expect that from ANY lawyer and certainly not from this individual. Facts don't matter, only his agenda! Quote [...] You're not exactly making a fair comparison here. [...] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #58 December 29, 2011 No, really not! Maybe that's your impression simply because I am not living in Kansas anymore. And never have! You think these guys were trolling? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0Y6DNfBgiY Quoteno trolling here, no siree! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,058 #59 December 29, 2011 >And just like North Koreans, Americans outdo themselves wailing and mourning for >the rich! And that includes YOU.... So - what have you done? Or do you just bitch? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #60 December 29, 2011 I am not rich!! Are you?? I am trying to bring up my kids as compassionate human beings. As responsible participants in our society. To the point that they wipe your ass, w/o you dangling a $1k bill in front of you! But, solely, just because you are another human being...Eventually you will need help! So, what have YOU contributed lately? Quote>And just like North Koreans, Americans outdo themselves wailing and mourning for >the rich! And that includes YOU.... So - what have you done? Or do you just bitch? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,058 #61 December 29, 2011 >I am not rich! By any sane standard compared to the rest of the world, you are. So am I. >I am trying to bring up my kids as compassionate human beings. Me too. >So, what have YOU contributed lately? Here? I contribute about $1K a year financially to a few charities and to local beggars. (Probably about $100 a year goes to the beggars, mainly cash.) I donate our old cars to local orphanages; the last one (a Toyota Previa) went to an orphanage in Tijuana. They tell me it was used to haul kids around for a while then given to one of the former orphans when he got into a school in the US. Next one (Honda Civic) will probably go to the same place. We donate our old clothes, blankets, furniture etc to the Salvation Army. I donate about six pints of blood a year, although this year I got deferred because I was in Belize (dumb; we weren't anywhere at risk for any of the diseases on the list.) I have no idea where that goes though, it could go to poor or rich people. More directly I volunteer at a local high school as a science consultant. They use me during design contests they have, and as a judge for science fairs. We contribute food and water to help during the once-every-four-year or so wildfires and work at the local distribution centers loading trucks with bottled water and whatnot. How about you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #62 December 29, 2011 How proud do you think they'd be of the 'compassion' you show towards others in your postings here?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #63 December 29, 2011 When adults are having a conversation, you just need to shut up! Have I made myself perfectly clear? QuoteHow proud do you think they'd be of the 'compassion' you show towards others in your postings here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,058 #64 December 29, 2011 And your one warning. If you can't post without personal attacks do not post here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #65 December 29, 2011 Quote I am not rich!! Are you?? I am trying to bring up my kids as compassionate human beings. As responsible participants in our society. To the point that they wipe your ass, w/o you dangling a $1k bill in front of you! But, solely, just because you are another human being...Eventually you will need help! So, what have YOU contributed lately? Quote>And just like North Koreans, Americans outdo themselves wailing and mourning for >the rich! And that includes YOU.... So - what have you done? Or do you just bitch? I'm rich. Retired, so I don't work, either. So what? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #66 December 29, 2011 So you are getting your panties all in a wad over taxes?:) QuoteAnd your one warning. If you can't post without personal attacks do not post here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #67 December 29, 2011 Enjoy! I hope that you took good care of your employees, just as they took care of you! In the end. We are ALL in this together! QuoteQuote I am not rich!! Are you?? I am trying to bring up my kids as compassionate human beings. As responsible participants in our society. To the point that they wipe your ass, w/o you dangling a $1k bill in front of you! But, solely, just because you are another human being...Eventually you will need help! So, what have YOU contributed lately? Quote>And just like North Koreans, Americans outdo themselves wailing and mourning for >the rich! And that includes YOU.... So - what have you done? Or do you just bitch? I'm rich. Retired, so I don't work, either. So what? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #68 December 29, 2011 Quote Enjoy! I hope that you took good care of your employees, just as they took care of you! In the end. We are ALL in this together! QuoteQuote I am not rich!! Are you?? I am trying to bring up my kids as compassionate human beings. As responsible participants in our society. To the point that they wipe your ass, w/o you dangling a $1k bill in front of you! But, solely, just because you are another human being...Eventually you will need help! So, what have YOU contributed lately? Quote>And just like North Koreans, Americans outdo themselves wailing and mourning for >the rich! And that includes YOU.... So - what have you done? Or do you just bitch? I'm rich. Retired, so I don't work, either. So what? Having a few $$$ in ones pockets does not make anyone different. We all tend to starve to death at the same rate. Other than an education, practically everything else one has can be taken away. Promoting class warfare is a self annihilating effort. When you post that so and so's are different it's not really accurate. I view it as an effort to accentuate differences, and promote disharmony. Employees come and go. Some are better than others. The basis of pay and compensation, is the general concern of an employee. If they can do better elsewhere, they are free to move on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #69 December 30, 2011 When you're trying to compare the US to North Korea, it's an obvious attempt at getting an emotional reaction. I think you're disappointed that no one is taking you seriously enough to give that response. I'm now at a company that believes so seriously in the notion of giveback that every employee is granted 6 hours (bankable) per month to contribute to charitable service. Along with free services and money from the company itself. Quote No, really not! Maybe that's your impression simply because I am not living in Kansas anymore. And never have! You think these guys were trolling? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0Y6DNfBgiY Quoteno trolling here, no siree! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #70 December 30, 2011 Quote When adults are having a conversation, you just need to shut up! Have I made myself perfectly clear? QuoteHow proud do you think they'd be of the 'compassion' you show towards others in your postings here? Bill answered you, now answer him, write out your list of things you do to help out. Many of us here, aside from working one or two jobs, also donate time, money, items, and generally help out our fellow citizens. We also expect that those others in society who are able to would step in and do the same, instead of waiting for others to do it. Your expressed hatred of Mike really does hamper any one taking you seriously. Very Childish, at best. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #71 December 30, 2011 QuoteYou're not exactly making a fair comparison here. I know it's imperfect. I'm comparing apples with oranges. They''re both fruits and both make really good juice. They are more alike than different, yet there are huge differences between the two. The issue comes with options. A high speed train is going to be the same issues as with a plane. You need to get to the train station. Luggage hasn't been addressed, but there will be security issues. If I need to fly out of FAT I get there an hour early, hope for no delays, and I'm on my way. If I'm taking the high speed train, I get there a half hour early, hope for no delays, and I'm on my way. They are expecting the ticket prices of this train to be really high. OAK to LA? We're talking in excess of $300 round trip. (Just look at what Amtrak charges for it). IT'll either have to be subsidized (which WILL happen) or ridership will be very small. re: airport capacity. Yep. While there are new technologies being tested to increase the capacities, it cannot add much. There just isn't the land available unless the build one or two artificial islands. How will the train help? Tough to say. Ridership numbers haven't been enough for Amtrak to install rail through the Grapevine. Having done that trip a few times, they put me on a bus. Not too bad, but buses and planes provide flexibility that rail does not. There is a rail route I think looks pretty promising - the one to Las Vegas. It's slated to run between Victorville and Las Vegas. That's it. No stops in Baker or State Line. Victorville to Vegas in 90 minutes. There's a good demand for it, the I-15 is heavily trafficked without alternate route, and most of the heavy traffic are weekenders traveling for a good time in Vegas. In this case it seems something that makes good sense to all. Just get to Victorville (and since most people drive by it, anyway, it's not a problem), park, and bypass traffic. The route itself is great because it doesn't try to be everything. It's between Vegas and Victorville and Apple Valley, sorry, but you're not getting a stop. You make good points. But I think the comparison is worthy. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charlie5 0 #72 December 30, 2011 Again, what have YOU done.The feather butts bounce off ya like raindrops hitting a battle-star when they come in too fast...kinda funny to watch. - airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #73 December 30, 2011 "Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. They possess and enjoy early, and it does something to them, makes them soft, where we are hard, cynical where we are trustful, in a way that, unless you were born rich, it is very difficult to understand." "The Rich Boy"; F. Scott Fitzgerald (1926) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #74 December 30, 2011 Quote"Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. They possess and enjoy early, and it does something to them, makes them soft, where we are hard, cynical where we are trustful, in a way that, unless you were born rich, it is very difficult to understand." "The Rich Boy"; F. Scott Fitzgerald (1926) You know it's funny how history seems to cycle....weren't we here in 1910?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #75 December 30, 2011 QuoteI am not rich!! Are you?? What does is matter whether you are rich to do something? I am not rich – I’ll put my net worth up against yours and see whose is greater any day. It doesn’t mean we can’t do good things. It doesn’t mean that we can’t do things that do not include passing out money. But your statement goes back to the whole objection I have: doing things with other people’s money. With the resources of others. Even when the rich do things with their money you’ve criticized it as being the wrong thing. QuoteI am trying to bring up my kids as compassionate human beings. Compassionate towards whom? “Compassion” is not an overreaching thing. And often times what seems to be mean is compassion. The best example I know of is Bill. When there’s somebody who is being irresponsible as a canopy pilot, he says, “I hope he breaks his femur.” It sounds like an awful thing, until one looks more deeply and understands that bill is saying that he hopes he doesn’t kill or paralyze himself. Femurs heal and the guy can learn from it. I will reiterate, though, that compassion for the sheep is death for the wolf. Compassion for the wolf is death for the sheep. So, to whom is your compassion (or that of your kids) directed? Because I can tell you honestly, you are demonstrating some outright misanthropy towards certain people. No compassion at all. In fact, you are downright insulting. QuoteAs responsible participants in our society. What does that entail? QuoteBut, solely, just because you are another human being...Eventually you will need help! Yes. And often time that help involves being left alone to go about my business and my life. I try to set myself up in life to be able to get help when needed. But I do not expect anyone to do it for free. I also won’t say, “I need help. You better help me.” When a person is forced to help another it may be compassionate for the assisted, but it is not compassionate to the servant. QuoteSo, what have YOU contributed lately? What’s it matter? I’m not discussing how great it is. Nor am I the person who would put myself on a pedestal to say, “See how great I am? I helped those people!” I’ve known plenty of people who will give you the shirts off of their backs so long as there are cameras to document the event. I’m not about pointing out what a great guy I am. Or am I about pointing out how compassionate I am. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
