An Ignored 'Disparity'

[StreetScooby 5]

I thought this article was spot on.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/01/17/an_ignored_disparity_112791.html

An Ignored 'Disparity'
By Thomas Sowell

With all the talk about "disparities" in innumerable contexts, there is one very important disparity that gets remarkably little attention -- disparities in the ability to create wealth. People who are preoccupied, or even obsessed, with disparities in income are seldom interested much, or at all, in the disparities in the ability to create wealth, which are often the reasons for the disparities in income.

In a market economy, people pay us for benefiting them in some way -- whether we are sweeping their floors, selling them diamonds or anything in between. Disparities in our ability to create benefits for which others will pay us are huge, and the skills required can develop early -- or sometimes not at all.

A recent national competition among high school students who create their own technological advances turned up an especially high share of such students winning recognition in the San Francisco Bay Area. A closer look showed that the great majority of these Bay Area students had Asian names.

Asian Americans are a substantial presence in this region but they are by no means a majority, much less such an overwhelming majority as they are among those winning high tech awards.

This pattern of disproportionate representation of particular groups among those with special skills and achievements is not confined to Asian Americans or even to the United States.

It is a phenomenon among particular racial, ethnic or other groups in countries around the world -- the Ibos in Nigeria, the Parsees in India, the Armenians in the Ottoman Empire, Germans in Brazil, Chinese in Malaysia, Lebanese in West Africa, Tamils in Sri Lanka. The list goes on and on.

Gross inequalities in skills and achievements have been the rule, not the exception, on every inhabited continent and for centuries on end. Yet our laws and government policies act as if any significant statistical difference between racial or ethnic groups in employment or income can only be a result of their being treated differently by others.

Nor is this simply an opinion. Businesses have been sued by the government when the representation of different groups among their employees differs substantially from their proportions in the population at large. But, no matter how the human race is broken down into its components -- whether by race, sex, geographic region or whatever -- glaring disparities in achievements have been the rule, not the exception.

Anyone who watches professional basketball games knows that the star players are by no means a representative sample of the population at large. The book "Human Accomplishment" by Charles Murray is a huge compendium of the top achievements around the world in the arts and sciences, as well as in sports and other fields.

Nowhere have these achievements been random or representative of the demographic proportions of the population of a country or of the world. Nor have they been the same from one century to the next. China was once far more advanced technologically than any country in Europe, but then it fell behind and more recently is gaining ground.

Most professional golfers who participate in PGA tournaments have never won a single tournament, but Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods have each won dozens of tournaments.

Yet these and numerous other disparities in achievement are resolutely ignored by those whose shrill voices denounce disparities in rewards, as if these disparities are somehow suspicious at best and sinister at worst.

Higher achieving groups -- whether classes, races or whatever -- are often blamed for the failure of other groups to achieve. Politicians and intellectuals, especially, tend to conceive of social questions in terms that allow them to take on the role of being on the side of the angels against the forces of evil.

This can be a huge disservice to those individuals and groups who are lagging behind, for it leads them to focus on a sense of grievance and victimhood, rather than on how they can lift themselves up instead of trying to pull other people down.

Again, this is a worldwide phenomenon -- a sad commentary on the down side of the brotherhood of man.

Copyright 2011, Creators Syndicate Inc.

We are all engines of karma

[pirana 0]

So, there are differences in achievement between groups of people.

Are you looking for the reasons for that? Are you looking for some government or other entity to put a stop to it? Do you want people to be angry about that?

I really could not tell what the point of the article was.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[StreetScooby 5]

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I really could not tell what the point of the article was.

My take on the article is that the primary reason for economic disparity in this county is due to work ethic.

We are all engines of karma

[rushmc 23]

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I really could not tell what the point of the article was.

My take on the article is that the primary reason for economic disparity in this county is due to work ethic.

Well, if this is really the case, then a related point would be that one has to be responsible for one’s own actions (or inactions)

Surely that can't be true.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[StreetScooby 5]

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Well, if this is really the case, then a related point would be that one has to be responsible for one’s own actions (or inactions)

Surely that can't be true.

Being responsible for your actions is not emphasized enough, IMO. I see that as a major difference between a liberal ethos and a conservative one.

We are all engines of karma

[rushmc 23]

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Well, if this is really the case, then a related point would be that one has to be responsible for one’s own actions (or inactions)

Surely that can't be true.

Being responsible for your actions is not emphasized enough, IMO. I see that as a major difference between a liberal ethos and a conservative one.

Bingo!!

I think the profundity of you post here will be missed by many

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,447]

And I'll submit that one's parents' work ethic has a lot to do with it; that's how most people's work ethic is developed.

I agree that work ethic is huge, along with ability to tolerate frustration.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

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And I'll submit that one's parents' work ethic has a lot to do with it; that's how most people's work ethic is developed.

I agree that work ethic is huge, along with ability to tolerate frustration.

Wendy P.

+1

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[StreetScooby 5]

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And I'll submit that one's parents' work ethic has a lot to do with it; that's how most people's work ethic is developed.

Agreed. That's where I learned mine. Plus, every male on both sides of my parents' families worked, and worked hard.

We are all engines of karma

[kallend 2,027]

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And I'll submit that one's parents' work ethic has a lot to do with it; that's how most people's work ethic is developed.

I agree that work ethic is huge, along with ability to tolerate frustration.

Wendy P.

Access to a good education has a lot to do with it too. There is a huge amount of data showing that education correlates with success. Yet we continue to deprive whole segments of our society from a decent education.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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And I'll submit that one's parents' work ethic has a lot to do with it; that's how most people's work ethic is developed.

I agree that work ethic is huge, along with ability to tolerate frustration.

Wendy P.

Access to a good education has a lot to do with it too. There is a huge amount of data showing that education correlates with success. Yet we continue to deprive whole segments of our society from a decent education.

You can thank teachers unions and the Dept of Education in Washington for that

On the other hand, many deprive themselves of an education due to an attitude that can be directly linked to the points made by Scooby and Wendy

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[StreetScooby 5]

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You can thank teachers unions and the Dept of Education in Washington for that

We're looking at colleges now for my son. The costs are simply ridiculous. "Top" schools are charging $50K to $60K per year(!). Even NY state schools (in state for me) want $25K/year.

The formula the federal government uses to calculate what a family can afford to pay is simply absurd. Absolutely no connection to reality what so ever. But, guess what, I can get loans from the federal government for.... 8%. What a scam this has become.

We are all engines of karma

[beowulf 1]

I think a lot of education issue is due to education not being valued culturally. If the parents aren't pushing their kids to do well in school then the kids won't push themselves. I really believe it starts with the parents.

[wmw999 2,447]

So is the country better served by

helping kids who don't have the advantage of decent parenting (for whatever reason)

ensuring that the pathway is easy for those who can help it most (i.e. high achievers)

Obviously it can't be that we do exclusively one of those, but we can't do them both equally.

Questions to ask are which category has a larger population, and which population is likely to grow? I'm going to submit that ensuring that the "better" population grows more rapidly than the "lesser" one is the best way of helping our overall national growth.

Note that definitions of "better" and "lesser" are really really subjective, and I'm not trying to pass value judgments on individuals -- humans really are all humans. But I had to use some words. Please don't get caught up on these -- there's a much more interesting topic to discuss.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

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You can thank teachers unions and the Dept of Education in Washington for that

We're looking at colleges now for my son. The costs are simply ridiculous. "Top" schools are charging $50K to $60K per year(!). Even NY state schools (in state for me) want $25K/year.

The formula the federal government uses to calculate what a family can afford to pay is simply absurd. Absolutely no connection to reality what so ever. But, guess what, I can get loans from the federal government for.... 8%. What a scam this has become.

And a part of those costs is teachers, who for some reason can no longer be allowed to teach, still show up every day, sit in a room, and get paid because they can not be fired due to union rules.

And I think (if I remember right) your state has one of the biggest non-working paid teachers populations

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,447]

StreetScooby is talking about college, not public schools. While I'm sure there isn't a direct correlation, the beginning of the "publish or perish" mentality in universities coincides with the rather meteoric rise in tuitions beginning in the late 1970's.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

Quote

So is the country better served by

helping kids who don't have the advantage of decent parenting (for whatever reason)

ensuring that the pathway is easy for those who can help it most (i.e. high achievers)

Obviously it can't be that we do exclusively one of those, but we can't do them both equally.

Questions to ask are which category has a larger population, and which population is likely to grow? I'm going to submit that ensuring that the "better" population grows more rapidly than the "lesser" one is the best way of helping our overall national growth.

Note that definitions of "better" and "lesser" are really really subjective, and I'm not trying to pass value judgments on individuals -- humans really are all humans. But I had to use some words. Please don't get caught up on these -- there's a much more interesting topic to discuss.

Wendy P.

get your point Wendy and I agree

The fastest way to help is to let teachers teach

Take away the social bs they are forced to teach today and get them back to the basics

Remove union rules on tenure and seniority to allow the best teachers to be kept and the dead beets shown the door

Get school control BACK to local level and get Washington OUT of the mix

All good starts

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[beowulf 1]

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helping kids who don't have the advantage of decent parenting (for whatever reason)

You can't make up for bad parenting. You can only help those kids that are self motivated to learn and get a good education.

You can't help someone who isn't motivated to help themselves.

[rushmc 23]

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StreetScooby is talking about college, not public schools. While I'm sure there isn't a direct correlation, the beginning of the "publish or perish" mentality in universities coincides with the rather meteoric rise in tuitions beginning in the late 1970's.

Wendy P.

True

But this then beggs the question

People bitch about big this and big that

Why never Big Education?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

helping kids who don't have the advantage of decent parenting (for whatever reason)

You can't make up for bad parenting. You can only help those kids that are self motivated to learn and get a good education.

You can't help someone who isn't motivated to help themselves.

And so we come back to personall responsibility

But getting motivated would be very tough if coming from a bad home (in the context of this thread)
The only way to help it would seem would be to make gov hand outs harder to get (or have more requirments such as and education attached) and a positive and supportive message from the community

Other ideas?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

I think a lot of education issue is due to education not being valued culturally. If the parents aren't pushing their kids to do well in school then the kids won't push themselves. I really believe it starts with the parents.

Kids can't push very hard in many inner city schools. The DISPARITY in funding between wealthy and poor school districts is verging on the criminal.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

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I think a lot of education issue is due to education not being valued culturally. If the parents aren't pushing their kids to do well in school then the kids won't push themselves. I really believe it starts with the parents.

Kids can't push very hard in many inner city schools. The DISPARITY in funding between wealthy and poor school districts is verging on the criminal.

Regardless, it still starts with the parents

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,447]

Even where funding is more similar (we have a "robin hood" law in Texas -- it helps, but not enough), there are barriers to overcome. Parents with an entitlement mentality, who do nothing to help teachers, and teachers who went into education because it's a guaranteed job both contribute.

Up until the late 1960's, smart women who wanted to work were either nurses, teachers, or secretaries. There really weren't a lot of other realistic options.

Once there were other options, those careers suffered, particularly teaching (which is the most thankless of the three). I'm not saying we should go back to limiting women's opportunities, but it seems to be a contributing factor.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wmw999 2,447]

BTW, since we have very successful liberals and conservatives participating in this conversation, can we please stay away from saying that one side or the other is better represented in either set?

Cases can be made for either one.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[pirana 0]

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And I'll submit that one's parents' work ethic has a lot to do with it; that's how most people's work ethic is developed.

I agree that work ethic is huge, along with ability to tolerate frustration.

Wendy P.

Access to a good education has a lot to do with it too. There is a huge amount of data showing that education correlates with success. Yet we continue to deprive whole segments of our society from a decent education.

Agreed that access could be better; however, a lot of people don't even take advantage of what is available. (Which is why I am so against privatizing education or making it any less compulsory than it already is - too many ignorant parents would opt their kids out, or allow them to opt out themselves).

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley