rehmwa 2 #126 February 3, 2012 thanks - that's what I thought and, frankly, we have bozo parents - and they'll raise bozo kids I'm ok with that - we can't eliminate bozos from the populace - we can only replace them with different types of bozos. I consider the rights of parents to raise their kids a worthy tradeoff for the variety we get. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frequentfaller 0 #127 February 3, 2012 QuoteQuotegot it backwards pops. keep the religion out of science. science = logic/proof, religion = blind faith My bad. I thought you were up to speed on all the "God doesn't exist because you can't prove that He does. Show me the scientific proof that God exists" inanities. up to speed on what you define as inanity? just because you tire of the same unanswered basic 1st question, of anything. doesnt make it go away.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #128 February 3, 2012 >Yet we have to deal with the strange attitude of, "I believe the earth is flat and I don't >want my kid taught anything different." It seems like your attitude is "no one can really know if the earth is flat so we should teach kids that the earth is round AND that the earth is flat and let them choose for themselves." (If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.) I prefer that kids get taught facts as facts, and religious theories/social premises/morality as theories. And if you're going to have to cut something from the curriculum due to budget/time problems, the religion/social/morality stuff gets cut first. " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #129 February 3, 2012 QuoteQuotebut, I also don't consider it any of my business how my neighbor teaches their kids - even if I disagree. Well, that kind of puts you in the minority in this thread. It appears that some would battle until the last shot is fired to make others adhere to their preference on what YOUR kids should be taught. Who said that and where? Quoteanything fact (rather than belief) based? sure, the school should provide all the pertinent data. Except you want to go beyond that and make the school teach everything belief based as well. When you have to mischaracterise your own stance in order to make yourself sound reasonable, you should probably go away and have a think about the things you are advocating.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #130 February 3, 2012 Quote Quote True. Atheists are much more inanely vocal and mean-spirited. Proselytizers couldn't compete with that even if they wanted to. Who wants to prevent others from conducting their private lives in a way that doesn't match their own? It's only a matter of time before gay marriage is recognized by all states, and abortion is already legal. But if figures only an atheist would make you wanna feel shameful for believing it's wrong to kill your children. Perhaps if atheists weren't so hellbent on killing their progeny they'd have more of a voice in this country... Quote Oh, but wait - here in this tiny corner of the internet known as SC atheists might talk more than religious people. And we'd like to keep it that way. Could you imagine if we allowed the true spirit of atheism to be released and dominate the world: The true spirit of atheism: Quote Don't think any religion is any better than the other! they are all fucked up and should be killed off! WTF! FUCKING RELIGIOUS FUCKERS! SHOULD ALL BE HUNG BY THEIR FEET AND FEED TO PIGS! HANG THE FUCKING RELIGIOUS FUCKERS BY THEIR FEET AND FEED THEM TO PIGS! All of them! I don't care! Oh you spoke to god? Here step this way let me introduce you to the wood chipper before you pick up a gun and FUCK US ALL OVER! The only good religious SOB with a gun is a dead religious SOB with a gun. They want to go to heaven so bad, please allow me to help them get there quicker! Kill.....oh no hell no! Torture and hurt them? YOU GOT IT! Now may I please use the wood chipper on some of these fuck? I mean just give me a half dozen of them to feed to some pigs? Hang them by their hands and lower them down so the rest of these fuckers can hear their "brothers" scream for their life? ...and then the other atheists say, "that's understandable."It's ok...you can tell us what you really think, we've known all along. It's this same hate that caused our religion to be born in the first place...it's ok, we're ready for it.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #131 February 3, 2012 >Perhaps if atheists weren't so hellbent on killing their progeny they'd have more of >a voice in this country... 1) I don't know of any atheists hellbent on killing their progeny. 2) Since abortion is in fact legal, and gay marriage is rapidly becoming legal - and you claim those are both atheist causes - it sounds like they have a pretty strong voice in this country. >The true spirit of atheism I think that's "the true spirit of Shah." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #132 February 3, 2012 QuoteSince abortion is in fact legal, and gay marriage is rapidly becoming legal - and you claim those are both atheist causes - it sounds like they have a pretty strong voice in this country. Thanks to the graces bestowed on them by the christians who run this country. Most of us aren't out to get you. We want people to be happy. Freewill...everyone should be allowed to excercize it. QuoteThe true spirit of atheism I think that's "the true spirit of Shah." I think he just has the balls to say it...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #133 February 3, 2012 >Freewill...everyone should be allowed to excercize it. Keep that up and there will be a lot less friction between peoples of all sorts! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #134 February 3, 2012 Quote>I prefer that kids get taught facts as facts, and religious theories/social premises/morality as theories. And if you're going to have to cut something from the curriculum due to budget/time problems, the religion/social/morality stuff gets cut first. " actually, I think you read him incorrectly the above quote of what you put there seems you have common ground ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #135 February 3, 2012 QuoteQuotethe college version gets to the heart of it - money and power hiding in the veil of God. Still confusing the religion with the humans who interpret it? How can you separate them? We don't have a deity that pays housecalls to us. At best it speaks to (self proclaimed) Chosen Ones or kidnaps them for probing. So any religion we have is created by humans. Karl Marx had it right when he wrote it - religion was the opiate for the people, used by those in power. The people are in much better shape now 150 years later - they can freely enter or leave a faith based on their own beliefs. Still not in great shape - an atheist would have to pretend to be Christian to be a successful politician in America, just as a gay Republican would need to get a fake wife. But compared to the pre 20th Century life, it's nirvana. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #136 February 3, 2012 QuoteQuotegot it backwards pops. keep the religion out of science. science = logic/proof, religion = blind faith My bad. I thought you were up to speed on all the "God doesn't exist because you can't prove that He does. Show me the scientific proof that God exists" inanities. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for scientific evidence that a deity exists. The Bible makes many claims of God appearing or doing things that were physically visible to humans. If the Christian God is real then it's not unreasonable for him to do some of those things today to prove he exists. Otherwise Christianity is just another mythology. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #137 February 3, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteTrue. Atheists are much more inanely vocal and mean-spirited. Proselytizers couldn't compete with that even if they wanted to. Who wants to prevent others from conducting their private lives in a way that doesn't match their own? It's only a matter of time before gay marriage is recognized by all states, and abortion is already legal. But if figures only an atheist would make you wanna feel shameful for believing it's wrong to kill your children. Perhaps if atheists weren't so hellbent on killing their progeny they'd have more of a voice in this country... So your answer is religious people, not atheists. Got it. QuoteQuoteOh, but wait - here in this tiny corner of the internet known as SC atheists might talk more than religious people. And we'd like to keep it that way. Then stop bitching about it. QuoteIt's this same hate that caused our religion to be born in the first place Evidently!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #138 February 3, 2012 QuoteQuote>I prefer that kids get taught facts as facts, and religious theories/social premises/morality as theories. And if you're going to have to cut something from the curriculum due to budget/time problems, the religion/social/morality stuff gets cut first. " actually, I think you read him incorrectly Nope. Andy wrote that cutting any religious/social/moral stuff is brainwashing.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #139 February 3, 2012 Quotereligion was the opiate for the people, used by those in power. absolutely - however, a couple things need to be understood organized religion exercises that power through religion "faith" does not equal religion the fact that faithful people seem to be unable to understand that faith does not equal religion is what gives the corrupt power over them the same technique can, and has been, applied to enviromentalists, nationalists, etc etc etc etc throughout time singling out religion is interesting and popular, but it's no different than taking any type of belief and turning people subservient to the power structure goals no better, but no worse either ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #140 February 3, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote>I prefer that kids get taught facts as facts, and religious theories/social premises/morality as theories. And if you're going to have to cut something from the curriculum due to budget/time problems, the religion/social/morality stuff gets cut first. " actually, I think you read him incorrectly Nope. Andy wrote that cutting any religious/social/moral stuff is brainwashing. Whatever, Jakee - I read that as an accusation, but instead of reaming him, I asked for a clarification and got it. But you'd just accuse him of waffling anyway, so no point in the discussion. despite the other bit that you're referencing a Billvon quote ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #141 February 3, 2012 Quote Whatever, Jakee - I read that as an accusation, but instead of reaming him, I asked for a clarification and got it. You got a clarification that is a) at odds with everything else he's written on the subject over the last month, including in this thread and b) based on opposing a strawman position. Yeah, he's real helpful. Quote despite the other bit that you're referencing a Billvon quote A billvon quote that you said was based on a misreading of Andy because Andy believes in the same thing. When in fact Andy has written the exact opposite. But by all means, go ahead and call me unreasonable for paying attentionDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frequentfaller 0 #142 February 3, 2012 The true spirit of atheism? athiest = lack of belief its not an organized group against something. its what people with lack of religious belief are labled. not satinist = athiest i, like any other athiest, wish there was afterlife. i think its hard to imagine non existance. no thought. i think thats why religion is so easy accepted. hope im wrong, but then i go to H E double toothpicks. crap! just gimme some proof damnit.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rifleman 70 #143 February 4, 2012 Sheldon Cooper: I'm going to stay here in Texas, teaching evolution to creationists. Mary: Watch your language, Sheldon. You know everyone is entitled to their opinion. Sheldon Cooper: Evolution is not an opinion, it's a fact. Mary: And that is your opinion.Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #144 February 4, 2012 Quote The true spirit of atheism? athiest = lack of belief Atheism is a lack of belief in god(s) so technically you can still believe in an afterlife as an atheist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #145 February 4, 2012 Quotejust because you tire of the same unanswered basic 1st question, of anything. doesnt make it go away. True. The irrelevance of the asking that question never ends. Unthinking people continue to ask it. Maybe you don't know that the question already HAS been answered. I'll repeat the answer here for you: Asking for physical evidence to prove or disprove a non-physical entity is pointless....there just simply is none to be had either way. Ergo, inanity.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #146 February 4, 2012 QuoteIt seems like your attitude is "no one can really know if the earth is flat so we should teach kids that the earth is round AND that the earth is flat and let them choose for themselves." (If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.) No, my attitude is simply that, in the interest of a well-rounded education, students should be shown that other ideas exist or have existed. Teaching one side of ANY story is brainwashing as determined by whoever is deciding which one side is to be taught. QuoteI prefer that kids get taught facts as facts, and religious theories/social premises/morality as theories. And if you're going to have to cut something from the curriculum due to budget/time problems, the religion/social/morality stuff gets cut first. Agreed for the most part. Except now we're going to have to cut philosophy, art appreciation, etc. It appears to me that you are fact-based and you being an engineer, that's understandable. I say there's more to education than mere facts. We can already teach a computer how to regurgitate facts. We're still working on how to make a computer think. I'd rather have a thinker than a regurgitator. Providing both sides of the story will help them learn to think.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #147 February 4, 2012 QuoteHeliocentrism was more a Church thing than a God thing anyhow. One can find the notion of Adam and Eve and the serpent storyline ridiculous and still believe in a Creation beginning, be it "6000" years ago or as far back as Big Bang. I don't, due to the lack of any evidence, but for the same reason I can't disprove it either. What part of any of the BS pedaled as religion is not a church thing? I'm open to the Roving Philosopher stories and the teaching of the importance of certain character attributes as a means of living in harmony. Most of the rest is BS made up by a politicized organization long after Jesus died." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #148 February 4, 2012 QuoteI'm open to the Roving Philosopher stories and the teaching of the importance of certain character attributes as a means of living in harmony. Most of the rest is BS made up by a politicized organization long after Jesus died. Like what?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #149 February 4, 2012 QuoteQuoteI'm open to the Roving Philosopher stories and the teaching of the importance of certain character attributes as a means of living in harmony. Most of the rest is BS made up by a politicized organization long after Jesus died. Like what? Almost certainly the story of his birth.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #150 February 4, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteI'm open to the Roving Philosopher stories and the teaching of the importance of certain character attributes as a means of living in harmony. Most of the rest is BS made up by a politicized organization long after Jesus died. Like what? Almost certainly the story of his birth. Well I guess that's where our faith differs... When I first heard pirana's comment I immediately thought of several writings that could possibly be used to support his statement, but I'm not about to build a fictional case for him and then argue with myself...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
