Shark Attacks and Voter Fraud

[Gravitymaster 0]

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So what you and TK are alledging is that in their entire life, this fantasy person has never, ever had a 1/2 day off to go down and vote?

If the employer is required to allow time off to go down and vote and this fantasy person can't because they don't have ID. Then why don't they take the paid 1/2 day and get the ID? Then the next election, they can vote.

Seriously TK, do you ever think about what you write?

I never said any such thing. So let's not presuppose that you know anything about me or what I stand for.

What I said is that ANY infringement on the right to vote should be shot down. It is a fundamental Constitutional right and the govt should protect it, not infringe upon it.

Any restriction on the right to vote is a RESTRICTION on the right to vote and therefore unconstitutional.

period

that is what I said. Try not to re-ietrpret it into something that it is not.

or go ahead, try anyway....go ahead....say that I said something else.....go ahead. I would expect nothing less.

Hit a nerve, did I? I noticed you never answered my question either.

BTW, do you have the same view on gun rights as you do on voting rights? If not, what does that make you?

[tkhayes 348]

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Wisconsin provided free ID cards for voting purposes

http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/id-cards.php

Florida does not - touche.

[jclalor 12]

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***How are they cashing their SSI checks or seeing the doctor/getting their meds without ID, pray tell?

I give up? How are they? If you are going to make a statement that they need ID to cash their SSI checks, then show examples where that is the case. I suspect they have electronic deposit, maybe you have not heard of that before.

Maybe their 'son' or 'neighbor' takes the check to the bank for them and maybe it is a small town so of course the bank knows everyone and does not require ID.

Maybe they have neighbors to take them on a errand run once in a while.

Maybe your argument is bullshit. Just maybe.

For some, it seems far more likely that our country will be overrun by illegal born brown skinned people stuffing the ballot boxes as opposed to facing actual reality.

Where would the Republicans be without the fear factor?

[tkhayes 348]

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I noticed you never answered my question either.

I did actually - Yes, I do read what I write. Answered.

Gun rights have nothing to do with voting rights. I already stated that I gave up on the gun issues. I have no issues with gun rights. I have always stated that the USA has a gun problem. No where have I ever advocated of fought for any restirction to owning guns.

I have stated that the USA has a gun problem.

But given now that your tactic would seem to be digressing from the real issue to go on a tangent to attempt to discredit the poster instead of adddressing the thread, which was, and I will remind you - voting rights- well.... I would expect nothing less.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Here's the question once again.

If the employer allows 1/2 day off with pay to vote, why doesn't this fantasy person you have constructed simply take the paid 1/2 day and go get ID?

[lawrocket 3]

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The DNC know that non-citizens tend to vote for Democrats and therefore wants it easier for them to do it.

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Actually YOU made the statement with no evidence - so LET'S SEE IT

As I commented, which is worse? I agree - the right to vote is sacred and not to be infringed.

But I can make bullshit spin-based arguments for both sides on the issue. I'm not saying who is right or wrong on it. I'm pointing out the logic of it.

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Show me the cases of voter fraud that justify ANY law that restricts voting in ANY way

Um - the Constitution is itself a law that restricts voter rights. See? I admit that. What's next? Gonna tell me that restricting the right to vote is Unconstitutional?

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From Miami Herald:
http://www.miamiherald.com/...-law-in-florida.html

Showing me an article from "opinion" doesn't seem to be too appropriate. Then again, that's just me. It's why it's "opinion." Subjective.

Come on, tk. Get your feelings out of it and let's get to reason. You're jumping my ass for pointing out that both sides pull bullshit.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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***How are they cashing their SSI checks or seeing the doctor/getting their meds without ID, pray tell?

I give up? How are they? If you are going to make a statement that they need ID to cash their SSI checks, then show examples where that is the case. I suspect they have electronic deposit, maybe you have not heard of that before.

Maybe their 'son' or 'neighbor' takes the check to the bank for them and maybe it is a small town so of course the bank knows everyone and does not require ID.

Maybe they have neighbors to take them on a errand run once in a while.

Maybe your argument is bullshit. Just maybe.

For some, it seems far more likely that our country will be overrun by illegal born brown skinned people stuffing the ballot boxes as opposed to facing actual reality.

Where would the Republicans be without the fear factor?

That's a very racist statement you just made there. TK never said his fantasy person was brown. Nor did anyone ever suggest this.

[lawrocket 3]

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http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/id-cards.php

Florida does not - touche.

So your peeps COULD be providing a voter card, but that would solve the patent problem?

Would you support a voter card? It would be a fine compromise, wouldn't it? Or would you rather risk voter fraud?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jclalor 12]

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http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/id-cards.php

Florida does not - touche.

So your peeps COULD be providing a voter card, but that would solve the patent problem?

Would you support a voter card? It would be a fine compromise, wouldn't it? Or would you rather risk voter fraud?

As with everything, I believe in a measured response.

[jclalor 12]

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That's a very racist statement you just made there. TK never said his fantasy person was brown. Nor did anyone ever suggest this.[/reply

If your saying you aren't racist, I will take you at your word.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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That's a very racist statement you just made there. TK never said his fantasy person was brown. Nor did anyone ever suggest this.[/reply

If your saying you aren't racist, I will take you at your word.

You are the one making the racist statements. Perhaps you would be well served to honestly examine your own racial biases.

[kallend 2,027]

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History shows clearly that the GOP is using an almost non-existent boogie-man to disenfranchise poor and elderly voters.

You've made the statement. Show me the evidence.

(1) Indiana is the "hottest state for voter ID"
(2) Voter Fraud is a bogeyman
(3) Poor will be disenfranchised
(4) Elderly will be disenfranchised

Let's see it.

And there I was thinking that you read the news. You disappoint me, especially after your own unsupported claim that illegals vote for the Dems.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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That's a very racist statement you just made there. TK never said his fantasy person was brown. Nor did anyone ever suggest this.[/reply

If your saying you aren't racist, I will take you at your word.

I would also suggest you bookmark this thread. Then, the next time someone says "liberals always toss the race card when they run out of arguments" and you wonder what they mean, you can re-read this thread and better understand. Suggesting someone else is a racist to conceal your own racism is pretty pathetic. Think of it as a moment for self-reflection and re-examination of your attitude towards race.

[kallend 2,027]

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ANY law that restricts citizens right to vote should be ruled unconstitutional and for that matter, should never be considered at any level, state or federal.

So you agree that ANY law that restricts citizen's right to keep and bear arms should be ruled unconstitutional and for that matter, should never be considered at any level, state or federal?

.

And it appears that you agree that citizens should have to PROVE that they have not been disqualified from the right to own a firearm.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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How are they cashing their SSI checks or seeing the doctor/getting their meds without ID, pray tell?

I give up? How are they? If you are going to make a statement that they need ID to cash their SSI checks, then show examples where that is the case. I suspect they have electronic deposit, maybe you have not heard of that before.

Maybe their 'son' or 'neighbor' takes the check to the bank for them and maybe it is a small town so of course the bank knows everyone and does not require ID.

How'd they get the account without ID (federal requirement)?

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Maybe they have neighbors to take them on a errand run once in a while.

Immaterial to the argument.

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Maybe your argument is bullshit. Just maybe.

Well, we know that *yours* certainly was.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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Wisconsin provided free ID cards for voting purposes

http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/id-cards.php

Florida does not - touche.

Your hypothetical two-job mom had to have ID to get the job. She had to have ID to open a bank account for her payroll or to cash her checks. She had to have ID to buy/rent a house. She had to have ID to go to the doc or pick up prescriptions.

So, given that your two-job mom had to have ID for all that, Florida charging 25 bucks for an ID is immaterial to your argument.

Touche.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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ANY law that restricts citizens right to vote should be ruled unconstitutional and for that matter, should never be considered at any level, state or federal.

So you agree that ANY law that restricts citizen's right to keep and bear arms should be ruled unconstitutional and for that matter, should never be considered at any level, state or federal?

.

And it appears that you agree that citizens should have to PROVE that they have not been disqualified from the right to own a firearm.

You'd have to ask TK about that - the 'ANY law' gig was his, not mine.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[lawrocket 3]

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And there I was thinking that you read the news

John - how frequently do you point out a hole to be filled without providing it? You are so frequently accused of doing this that it's nearly stereotype that you do it. And you've claimed it's not your job to find sources for people.

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You disappoint me, especially after your own unsupported claim that illegals vote for the Dems.

Seems to me I stated that as a bullshit claim that the other side of the sword would make.

Look at Democrats - their single greatest move to add access over the last 20 years was Motor Voter in 1993 - a direct efforts to avoid registering people who want a driver's license. (As we know, the poor and the elderly are the ones who drive around the most).

John - there is SO much bullshit from both sides. So much spin. Look at Obama himself using gas prices as political hay in his election and now claiming (rightfully so!) that he can't do much about gasoline prices.

Because it's politics. And the bullshit flies on all sides.

ps - where's your evidence?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jclalor 12]

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***Wisconsin provided free ID cards for voting purposes

http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/id-cards.php

Florida does not - touche.

Your hypothetical two-job mom had to have ID to get the job. She had to have ID to open a bank account for her payroll or to cash her checks. She had to have ID to buy/rent a house. She had to have ID to go to the doc or pick up prescriptions.

So, given that your two-job mom had to have ID for all that, Florida charging 25 bucks for an ID is immaterial to your argument.

Touche.

Here's a heart warmer;

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And the examples to reinforce the concerns keep piling up. Tanya Somanader yesterday highlighted the story of Wisconsin’s Ruthelle Frank, who’s been voting for 63 years.

"Though paralyzed on her left side since birth, the 84-year-old “fiery woman” voted in every election since 1948 and even got elected herself as a member of the Brokaw Village Board. But because of the state’s new voter ID law, 2012 will be the first year Frank can’t vote. Born after a difficult birth at her home in 1927, Frank never received an official birth certificate. Her mother recorded it in her family Bible and Frank has a certification of baptism from a few months later, along with a Social Security card, a Medicare statement, and a checkbook. But without the official document, she can’t secure the state ID card that the new law requires to vote next year.

“It’s really crazy,” she added. “I’ve got all this proof. You mean to tell me that I’m not a U.S. citizen?” But state officials have informed Frank that, because the state Register of Deeds does have a record of her birth, they can issue her a new birth certificate — for a fee. And because of a spelling error, that fee may be as high as $200"

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_12/voterid_schemes_keep_snagging033927.php

[matthewcline 0]

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***Wisconsin provided free ID cards for voting purposes

http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/id-cards.php

Florida does not - touche.

Your hypothetical two-job mom had to have ID to get the job. She had to have ID to open a bank account for her payroll or to cash her checks. She had to have ID to buy/rent a house. She had to have ID to go to the doc or pick up prescriptions.

So, given that your two-job mom had to have ID for all that, Florida charging 25 bucks for an ID is immaterial to your argument.

Touche.

Here's a heart warmer;

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And the examples to reinforce the concerns keep piling up. Tanya Somanader yesterday highlighted the story of Wisconsin’s Ruthelle Frank, who’s been voting for 63 years.

"Though paralyzed on her left side since birth, the 84-year-old “fiery woman” voted in every election since 1948 and even got elected herself as a member of the Brokaw Village Board. But because of the state’s new voter ID law, 2012 will be the first year Frank can’t vote. Born after a difficult birth at her home in 1927, Frank never received an official birth certificate. Her mother recorded it in her family Bible and Frank has a certification of baptism from a few months later, along with a Social Security card, a Medicare statement, and a checkbook. But without the official document, she can’t secure the state ID card that the new law requires to vote next year.

“It’s really crazy,” she added. “I’ve got all this proof. You mean to tell me that I’m not a U.S. citizen?” But state officials have informed Frank that, because the state Register of Deeds does have a record of her birth, they can issue her a new birth certificate — for a fee. And because of a spelling error, that fee may be as high as $200"

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_12/voterid_schemes_keep_snagging033927.php

But in the article you quote, even the state can issue the Birth cert and she can get the ID, she is choosing not to.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[kallend 2,027]

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***Wisconsin provided free ID cards for voting purposes

http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/id-cards.php

Florida does not - touche.

Your hypothetical two-job mom had to have ID to get the job. She had to have ID to open a bank account for her payroll or to cash her checks. She had to have ID to buy/rent a house. She had to have ID to go to the doc or pick up prescriptions.

So, given that your two-job mom had to have ID for all that, Florida charging 25 bucks for an ID is immaterial to your argument.

Touche.

Here's a heart warmer;

Quote

And the examples to reinforce the concerns keep piling up. Tanya Somanader yesterday highlighted the story of Wisconsin’s Ruthelle Frank, who’s been voting for 63 years.

"Though paralyzed on her left side since birth, the 84-year-old “fiery woman” voted in every election since 1948 and even got elected herself as a member of the Brokaw Village Board. But because of the state’s new voter ID law, 2012 will be the first year Frank can’t vote. Born after a difficult birth at her home in 1927, Frank never received an official birth certificate. Her mother recorded it in her family Bible and Frank has a certification of baptism from a few months later, along with a Social Security card, a Medicare statement, and a checkbook. But without the official document, she can’t secure the state ID card that the new law requires to vote next year.

“It’s really crazy,” she added. “I’ve got all this proof. You mean to tell me that I’m not a U.S. citizen?” But state officials have informed Frank that, because the state Register of Deeds does have a record of her birth, they can issue her a new birth certificate — for a fee. And because of a spelling error, that fee may be as high as $200"

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_12/voterid_schemes_keep_snagging033927.php

But in the article you quote, even the state can issue the Birth cert and she can get the ID, she is choosing not to.

Matt

Why should she have to, and pay a $200 fee for the privilege right.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[matthewcline 0]

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***Wisconsin provided free ID cards for voting purposes

http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/id-cards.php

Florida does not - touche.

Your hypothetical two-job mom had to have ID to get the job. She had to have ID to open a bank account for her payroll or to cash her checks. She had to have ID to buy/rent a house. She had to have ID to go to the doc or pick up prescriptions.

So, given that your two-job mom had to have ID for all that, Florida charging 25 bucks for an ID is immaterial to your argument.

Touche.

Here's a heart warmer;

Quote

And the examples to reinforce the concerns keep piling up. Tanya Somanader yesterday highlighted the story of Wisconsin’s Ruthelle Frank, who’s been voting for 63 years.

"Though paralyzed on her left side since birth, the 84-year-old “fiery woman” voted in every election since 1948 and even got elected herself as a member of the Brokaw Village Board. But because of the state’s new voter ID law, 2012 will be the first year Frank can’t vote. Born after a difficult birth at her home in 1927, Frank never received an official birth certificate. Her mother recorded it in her family Bible and Frank has a certification of baptism from a few months later, along with a Social Security card, a Medicare statement, and a checkbook. But without the official document, she can’t secure the state ID card that the new law requires to vote next year.

“It’s really crazy,” she added. “I’ve got all this proof. You mean to tell me that I’m not a U.S. citizen?” But state officials have informed Frank that, because the state Register of Deeds does have a record of her birth, they can issue her a new birth certificate — for a fee. And because of a spelling error, that fee may be as high as $200"

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_12/voterid_schemes_keep_snagging033927.php

But in the article you quote, even the state can issue the Birth cert and she can get the ID, she is choosing not to.

Matt

Why should she have to, and pay a $200 fee for the privilege right.

It is the States processing costs. Should it just be free and the State pay for it for her?

Either way, get the ID, vote, problem solved. Well, it really wasn't a problem, just an excuse.

I see no issue with proving that you are, who you say you are, for your right to vote to be exercised. I think the two sides are full of shit with their arguments. They are pandering and fear mongering.

It is your right to own property, take a car, but you have to have insurance to register it.
It is your right to bear arms, but you have to fill out a back ground check to purchase one (in most cases).

These two things are done for the "Betterment of Society", i see no reason why, not, as far as Voting. Plus numerous states are providing the ID, or off setting the costs for those in a lower income bracket.

We saw voter fraud cases in Illinois, SC, TN, Florida etc etc. Most plead out. This may not stop it all, but it may help.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[kallend 2,027]

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***Wisconsin provided free ID cards for voting purposes

http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/id-cards.php

Florida does not - touche.

Your hypothetical two-job mom had to have ID to get the job. She had to have ID to open a bank account for her payroll or to cash her checks. She had to have ID to buy/rent a house. She had to have ID to go to the doc or pick up prescriptions.

So, given that your two-job mom had to have ID for all that, Florida charging 25 bucks for an ID is immaterial to your argument.

Touche.

Here's a heart warmer;

Quote

And the examples to reinforce the concerns keep piling up. Tanya Somanader yesterday highlighted the story of Wisconsin’s Ruthelle Frank, who’s been voting for 63 years.

"Though paralyzed on her left side since birth, the 84-year-old “fiery woman” voted in every election since 1948 and even got elected herself as a member of the Brokaw Village Board. But because of the state’s new voter ID law, 2012 will be the first year Frank can’t vote. Born after a difficult birth at her home in 1927, Frank never received an official birth certificate. Her mother recorded it in her family Bible and Frank has a certification of baptism from a few months later, along with a Social Security card, a Medicare statement, and a checkbook. But without the official document, she can’t secure the state ID card that the new law requires to vote next year.

“It’s really crazy,” she added. “I’ve got all this proof. You mean to tell me that I’m not a U.S. citizen?” But state officials have informed Frank that, because the state Register of Deeds does have a record of her birth, they can issue her a new birth certificate — for a fee. And because of a spelling error, that fee may be as high as $200"

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_12/voterid_schemes_keep_snagging033927.php

But in the article you quote, even the state can issue the Birth cert and she can get the ID, she is choosing not to.

Matt

Why should she have to, and pay a $200 fee for the privilege right.

It is the States processing costs. Should it just be free and the State pay for it for her?



Matt

Voting ain't a right if you have to pay for it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tkhayes 348]

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How'd they get the account without ID (federal requirement)?

Maybe they opened the account in 1947 and still have it, long before any ID's were necessary.

Maybe the banks in that area don't follow that federal guideline, even though they should (i.e. "I've known Mrs Smith for 35 years, she used to babysit me")

maybe your oversimplification of the processes are just that, oversimplification.

Maybe just maybe, someone actually will have difficulty getting the ID to vote, given that the govt is not asking for 'ID', they are asking for a very specific list of only certain types of IDs and therefore that would be an undue burden for many (or even some)

and maybe the right to vote is no longer a 'right'

And maybe if you believe in parts of the Constitution, but not other parts of it, maybe just maybe you are at the very least, paradoxical.

[matthewcline 0]

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***Wisconsin provided free ID cards for voting purposes

http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/id-cards.php

Florida does not - touche.

Your hypothetical two-job mom had to have ID to get the job. She had to have ID to open a bank account for her payroll or to cash her checks. She had to have ID to buy/rent a house. She had to have ID to go to the doc or pick up prescriptions.

So, given that your two-job mom had to have ID for all that, Florida charging 25 bucks for an ID is immaterial to your argument.

Touche.

Here's a heart warmer;

Quote

And the examples to reinforce the concerns keep piling up. Tanya Somanader yesterday highlighted the story of Wisconsin’s Ruthelle Frank, who’s been voting for 63 years.

"Though paralyzed on her left side since birth, the 84-year-old “fiery woman” voted in every election since 1948 and even got elected herself as a member of the Brokaw Village Board. But because of the state’s new voter ID law, 2012 will be the first year Frank can’t vote. Born after a difficult birth at her home in 1927, Frank never received an official birth certificate. Her mother recorded it in her family Bible and Frank has a certification of baptism from a few months later, along with a Social Security card, a Medicare statement, and a checkbook. But without the official document, she can’t secure the state ID card that the new law requires to vote next year.

“It’s really crazy,” she added. “I’ve got all this proof. You mean to tell me that I’m not a U.S. citizen?” But state officials have informed Frank that, because the state Register of Deeds does have a record of her birth, they can issue her a new birth certificate — for a fee. And because of a spelling error, that fee may be as high as $200"

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_12/voterid_schemes_keep_snagging033927.php

But in the article you quote, even the state can issue the Birth cert and she can get the ID, she is choosing not to.

Matt

Why should she have to, and pay a $200 fee for the privilege right.

It is the States processing costs. Should it just be free and the State pay for it for her?



Matt

Voting ain't a right if you have to pay for it.

So, Free guns now?

Seriously, so many rights needs to be funded, fund them by the folks who want to exercise them. OF course there needs to be a balance, and of course this will be used as some ones argument to hold the voter down, I call BS.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!