Wrong or Lying?

[beowulf 1]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/investor/2012/03/15/government-wrong-on-jobs-and-wages-again/


You decide.

[livendive 8]

Who, the governement or the reporter?

Anecdotally, there seems to be some recovery going on here. 100% of my friends that have been languishing in unemployment for close to two years (I have two such friends) have found full-time jobs in the past month, and I got a small raise this year after company-wide pay freezes in 3 of the last 4 years. Miniscule sample size, but from my perspective things are looking up.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[firemedic 7]

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Who, the governement or the reporter?

Anecdotally, there seems to be some recovery going on here. 100% of my friends that have been languishing in unemployment for close to two years (I have two such friends) have found full-time jobs in the past month, and I got a small raise this year after company-wide pay freezes in 3 of the last 4 years. Miniscule sample size, but from my perspective things are looking up.

Blues,
Dave

I'm glad for your and your friends. My wife was unemployed for 2 years due to downsizing. She can't find a full time job so she works 3 part time jobs at a much lower hourly rate than she earned before and no benefits. I think you're correct that a few jobs here and there is a miniscule. I can't say they are looking up based on that sample though.

[shah269 0]

The numbers don't match up at all.
We had this happen last srping as well.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[matthewcline 0]

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Who, the governement or the reporter?

Anecdotally, there seems to be some recovery going on here. 100% of my friends that have been languishing in unemployment for close to two years (I have two such friends) have found full-time jobs in the past month, and I got a small raise this year after company-wide pay freezes in 3 of the last 4 years. Miniscule sample size, but from my perspective things are looking up.

Blues,
Dave

I'm glad for your and your friends. My wife was unemployed for 2 years due to downsizing. She can't find a full time job so she works 3 part time jobs at a much lower hourly rate than she earned before and no benefits. I think you're correct that a few jobs here and there is a miniscule. I can't say they are looking up based on that sample though.

Here we laid off two more employees at the first of the year, and cut the pay of the rest from 10 to 20%.
Most all our freelancer's have offered small rate cuts to keep working, we had to hire two less per job for a while.

Most all our "worker bee's" all take Friday afternoon (the office is in reduced hours then) as the time to go donate blood, for the few bucks of income.

I am sure this is another small sample, but it has been our trend here for the last three years.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[shah269 0]

7% unemployment may be the new "normal"
which sucks since the US is not set up for such a high number.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[matthewcline 0]

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7% unemployment may be the new "normal"
which sucks since the US is not set up for such a high number.

Maybe, once we get back down to it and stay at or below it for awhile. Then it can be the new normal. 0% should be the goal, IMHO.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[charlie5 0]

They're lying for political gain, election season.

The feather butts bounce off ya like raindrops hitting a battle-star when they come in too fast...kinda funny to watch. - airtwardo

[beowulf 1]

That's what I think

[kelpdiver 2]

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]

Maybe, once we get back down to it and stay at or below it for awhile. Then it can be the new normal. 0% should be the goal, IMHO.

A true 0% rate (one where everyone to wants to work has as many hours as they want) would be extremely inflationary, and be difficult for companies to grow rapidly when called for.

[airdvr 210]

Considering the billions of dollars injected into the economy under porkulous the return on investment is laughable.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[GeorgiaDon 362]

It's hard to know what to make of an article that just says "we're right and the government's wrong" without any explanation of how they get their numbers and how that differs from (and is more accurate than) the government's methodology.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[pirana 0]

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http://www.forbes.com/sites/investor/2012/03/15/government-wrong-on-jobs-and-wages-again/


You decide.

I suspect our leaders (at least the elected ones) are either incompetent or lying. Such a state of denial is typical, especially from elected officials, who will invent all kinds of ways to not face up to unpleasant facts. A perfect example was the rationalizations in the runup to Japan's crash and 20 year recession, which they are just barely recovering from.

The critics warning of the dire consequences of building a house of cards eventually give up and go rather quiet. The general public, not even wanting to really understand the economy, eventually migrate to the soundbites of their chosen side. When the house collapses, the unbiased and unelected experts, initally ridiculed for their warnings, then take a beating for making the correct call, as if their recognition of the impending and eventually unfolding problem was caused by them.

History keeps repeating, mostly because people simply refuse to heed it's warnings.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[marks2065 0]

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It's hard to know what to make of an article that just says "we're right and the government's wrong" without any explanation of how they get their numbers and how that differs from (and is more accurate than) the government's methodology.

Don

You are correct, it is hard to know, but look at past numbers and see the government's numbers ended up being adjusted to closely matching theirs. With that history I would say that the government is probably wrong and just padding the numbers to gain favor of the people.

[jgoose71 0]

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It's hard to know what to make of an article that just says "we're right and the government's wrong" without any explanation of how they get their numbers and how that differs from (and is more accurate than) the government's methodology.

Don

They did. Let me summarize for you: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics say's that unemployment is down and pay is up, however, the amount of taxes collected by state and federal governments is down (even citing California as an example, and you know they don't lower taxes).

He is asking why. Can you explain this discrepancy?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[kallend 2,027]

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It's hard to know what to make of an article that just says "we're right and the government's wrong" without any explanation of how they get their numbers and how that differs from (and is more accurate than) the government's methodology.

Don

They did. Let me summarize for you: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics say's that unemployment is down and pay is up, however, the amount of taxes collected by state and federal governments is down (even citing California as an example, and you know they don't lower taxes).

He is asking why. Can you explain this discrepancy?

People cheating on their taxes

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,998]

>U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics say's that unemployment is down and pay is up,
>however, the amount of taxes collected by state and federal governments is down
>(even citing California as an example, and you know they don't lower taxes).

>He is asking why. Can you explain this discrepancy?

Taxes aren't due till April 15th.

[jgoose71 0]

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>U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics say's that unemployment is down and pay is up,
>however, the amount of taxes collected by state and federal governments is down
>(even citing California as an example, and you know they don't lower taxes).

>He is asking why. Can you explain this discrepancy?

Taxes aren't due till April 15th.

Federal taxes. State tax and property taxes have already been collected (data being used for this example).

States collect their taxes early so you can deduct them from your federal taxes.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[kelpdiver 2]

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Taxes aren't due till April 15th.

Federal taxes. State tax and property taxes have already been collected (data being used for this example).

States collect their taxes early so you can deduct them from your federal taxes.

Uh, no. California, the largest state in the union, has the same April 17th deadline as the Feds. And if I file early (in Feb) to pay them, that isn't deductible until I file my 2012 return next year.

Filing deadlines might vary for other states, though I find that difficult to believe, but it's an absolute truth that you have to pay the state by Dec 31st if you want a federal deduction for it.

[jgoose71 0]

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Taxes aren't due till April 15th.

Federal taxes. State tax and property taxes have already been collected (data being used for this example).

States collect their taxes early so you can deduct them from your federal taxes.

Uh, no. California, the largest state in the union, has the same April 17th deadline as the Feds. And if I file early (in Feb) to pay them, that isn't deductible until I file my 2012 return next year.

Filing deadlines might vary for other states, though I find that difficult to believe, but it's an absolute truth that you have to pay the state by Dec 31st if you want a federal deduction for it.

My Apologies, they have collected less money over the year and they still need to give back refunds.....

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[kelpdiver 2]

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My Apologies, they have collected less money over the year and they still need to give back refunds.....

As Bill wrote, and I did in a nearly identical threat, comparing Feb figures to last year tells you little. It's either wrong science, or lying. That's the name of the thread, though it was meant to ask that question about something else.

I don't know about you, but when I owe money on my returns, I never file before April 10th. When I'm owed money, I file as soon as I can get the paperwork together.

[billvon 2,998]

>Federal taxes. State tax and property taxes have already been collected (data being
>used for this example).

Hmm. State taxes aren't due until the 18th or 19th this year. What states were you thinking collected taxes earlier than that?

[nanook 1]

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It's hard to know what to make of an article that just says "we're right and the government's wrong" without any explanation of how they get their numbers and how that differs from (and is more accurate than) the government's methodology.

Don

They did. Let me summarize for you: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics say's that unemployment is down and pay is up, however, the amount of taxes collected by state and federal governments is down (even citing California as an example, and you know they don't lower taxes).

He is asking why. Can you explain this discrepancy?

Depends how they collect tax data. If by tax returns this year:

Those were last year's income.

If based on what has been collected by pay stub reports to the IRS:

Unearned income takes large hits during downturns and a good number of top 10% who pay a large chunk of the revenue have the highest concentration of this type of income.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[jgoose71 0]

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>Federal taxes. State tax and property taxes have already been collected (data being
>used for this example).

Hmm. State taxes aren't due until the 18th or 19th this year. What states were you thinking collected taxes earlier than that?

Probably my bad for making assumptions. I own a property is South Carolina and they came at me like a rabid spider monkey for my property taxes:
Pay by Jan 18 or else!!!!!

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[kelpdiver 2]

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>Federal taxes. State tax and property taxes have already been collected (data being
>used for this example).

Hmm. State taxes aren't due until the 18th or 19th this year. What states were you thinking collected taxes earlier than that?

Probably my bad for making assumptions. I own a property is South Carolina and they came at me like a rabid spider monkey for my property taxes:
Pay by Jan 18 or else!!!!!

property tax is a different matter, separate from the income tax bill on April ~15th. And yes, I believe in CA it is earlier.

However, since it's not based on income and due to Prop 13 does not change year to year, you couldn't use those receipts in CA to make any statement about the economy or employment.