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mirage62 0
Which is why ALL I am prepared to believe at this time is that the kid, armed only with groceries, was shot dead. This is indisputable. Everything else is subject to spin, lies and prevarication.
Well the broken nose is real, I believe. A witness has stated that Zimmerman was the one on the ground. A witness. I realize that people are saying that the witness is a friend - but is that fact?
Long ways from saying Zimmerman sb free. But John there are other facts.
SkyDekker 1,465
Given the lag between Martin taking off at a run and Zimmerman ending the call to 911 as he was returning to his truck,
What evidence is there of Martin taking off and running? Is there anything more than just Zimmerman stating it?
toolbox 0
Right!
What would the feds do if any other group(Mafia,aryan brotherhood,the elks,the sons of norway,yakima indian nation,ect ect ect...)made a public announcement of a bounty on anyone(white,black,asian,ect ect ect...)?
We should be hearing news of the feds knocking down the doors of the panther lair if they were being fair and impartial and doing the job without bias.
SkyDekker 1,465
According to the news today, he had been suspended three times.
1. Vandalizing school property (spray paint).
2. Found with a bunch of womens jewelry.
3. Marijuana bag.
Uhm no, thats not what the news is reporting.
1. Vandalizing school property
2. tardiness and truancy
3. trace amounts of MJ in an empty bag.
The jewelery was confiscated, he was not suspended for it, nor has it ever been established if the jewelery was stolen.
Andy9o8 2
I have a question for the attorneys, though. My belief was that self-defense in a case like this was an affirmative defense, which would shift the burden to Zimmerman to establish certain elements of his defense. Is that correct? Of does the prosecution have to estbalish that Zimmerman was "not" in fear of his life?
Generally, the answer is more or less the same, with some variances in burden-of-proof analysis from one state to another. Self defense is an affirmative defense.
In Florida, the prosecution has the initial burden of establishing the crime to a sufficient evidentiary level that a jury could, if it so chose, conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty. The burden then shifts to the defendant to affirmatively establish some additional evidence (even if only the defendant's testimony - or something else, or something more) - from which the jury could derive reasonable doubt as to the defendant's guilt. In Florida, that level of defense evidence need not be nearly as strong as the level of evidence required of the prosecution.
A good discussion of the self-defense burden of proof in Florida may be found in Montijo v. Florida. Here's the link.
http://www.5dca.org/Opinions/Opin2011/041111/5D09-3434.op.pdf
wlsc 0
Which is why ALL I am prepared to believe at this time is that the kid, armed only with groceries, was shot dead. This is indisputable. Everything else is subject to spin, lies and prevarication.
Well the broken nose is real, I believe. A witness has stated that Zimmerman was the one on the ground. A witness. I realize that people are saying that the witness is a friend - but is that fact?
Long ways from saying Zimmerman sb free. But John there are other facts.
Zimmerman said he 'went for his cellphone'. That could easily look like 'going for his gun'.
Zimmerman also knew he had a friend at hand phoning the police. Why didn't the friend help physically if Zimmerman was calling for it.
mnealtx 0
What evidence is there of Zimmerman stalking or confronting Martin? Is there anything more than just the family/Jackson/Sharpton stating it?
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
quade 4
What evidence is there of Zimmerman stalking or confronting Martin?
You mean besides the 911 operator asking him if he's following Martin, to which Zimmerman says, "Yeah"?
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
SkyDekker 1,465
What evidence is there of Zimmerman stalking or confronting Martin? Is there anything more than just the family/Jackson/Sharpton stating it?
There is evidence of Zimemrman going after/starting to follow Martin through an admission from Zimmerman himself.
There is evidence of a confrontation with one dead body.
You are making statement quoted above and I was wondering if you had anything beyond Zimmerman stating it? Judging by your evasion, you don't.
mnealtx 0
Yup...2 seconds before the 911 operators says "we don't need you to do that" and Zimmerman saying "OK" and stopping the pursuit two seconds after that to return to his truck.
Damnit, those 4 second stalkings have GOT to stop!!!
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
mnealtx 0
Following != stalking. There's also evidence from the 911 transcript that he lost sight of Martin:
"It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]"
Note the time - some 90 seconds after he said Martin was running (2:08), and over a minute after the dispatcher telling him he didn't need to follow Martin (2:26).
There is evidence of a confrontation with one dead body.
No evidence that *Zimmerman* initiated the confrontation. Given the info above from the 911 transcript, maybe YOU can explain how Zimmerman got in front of Martin to cause the confrontation?
You are making statement quoted above and I was wondering if you had anything beyond Zimmerman stating it? Judging by your evasion, you don't.
Locations and the transcript of the 911 call - what do you have besides the statements of Sharpton/Jackson/family? Any evidence?
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
jakee 1,512
If Zimmerman is WHITE (like the press keeps reporting) Obama is WHITE.
A) I have no idea what the fuck you are responding to.
B) Zimmerman, as shown by people who are trying to prove he's not white, is at least half white. Like, central european white. So, why is he not WHITE? And if he's not, what is he?
jakee 1,512
it's clear we don't have a young and innocent little boy here.
The rest of your post is irrelebant. However here, the boy may not be innocent of absolutely anything ever, but there is still no evdence tying him to violent behaviour.
The only prior evidence ties him to MJ. Like I said, reefer madness is long past.
With the presumed existence of a witness saying he was an aggressor
What witness? What presumption?
Testify my brother! Testify!
jakee 1,512
It was certainly important enough for you to mention that he *wasn't* running as fast as he could, so why change the story now?
Uh, no. May have been, may not have been, but not right from the start. So what's your problem?
Your entire point depends on Martin running faster than Zimmerman initially, so why do you care so much if I describe Martin as running as fast as he can or not? It makes no quantifiable difference, so what are you doing apart from playin meaningless, bullshit wordgames?
Ah, yes... I didn't *specifically* mention bill's scenario of Zimmerman walking up to Martin, grabbing him and saying "time to die"....silly me.
Bill posited plenty more scenario's than that. Could you not be bothered to read them, or are you being purposefully dishonest? Either or, no third option.
Like Zimmerman being on the ground with Martin on top of him. 911 transcript has Zimmerman stopping the foot chase and returning to his truck to meet with the cops.
Martin being on top has fuck all to do with who approached who and you know it. Stop lying, it impresses no-one.
911 transcript does not have Zimmerman returning to his truck. It has Zimmerman saying he will return to his truck. So, given the statement you replied to... in what fucking world do you equate Zimmerman's 911 statements with 'eyewitness' reports?
You said that 'eyewitness reports' give plenty of info on how Zimmerman came face to face with Martin. Flat out, unequivocably, that is what you said. So, what eyewitness reports? What do they say?
Well, Martin had *just* come to the neighborhood a couple days before the incident, supposedly. How else was he supposed to have known about all that aggression and confrontationalism of Zimmerman's in order to be afraid of him, if they hadn't met?
What does that have to do with it?
Why would Martin need to know that Zimmerman had a confrontational history if Zimmerman was being confrontational? Especially given that Martin knew Zimmerman was following him?
Absent a prior meeting between Zimmerman, why would Martin be in fear of his own safety from Zimmerman?
Because he knew he was following him. Which, according to his GF, he did.
jakee 1,512
No, it's very likely he was only arrested because he's Hispanic.
Dude, You can't even get his name right despite about 10 prompting otherwise. I believe you have shown yourself to the most racist commentator on this thread.
jgoose71 0
If Zimmerman is WHITE (like the press keeps reporting) Obama is WHITE.
A) I have no idea what the fuck you are responding to.
B) Zimmerman, as shown by people who are trying to prove he's not white, is at least half white. Like, central european white. So, why is he not WHITE? And if he's not, what is he?
Obama's mother is white, so Obama is half white. So when he started bombing Libya, do we say, "Oh look, another rich white guy in the white house dropping bombs on poor black people again."?
Life, the Universe, and Everything
jakee 1,512
"an empty bag of mj" is really misleading and plays to one side only
Why? It's described as an empty bag of MJ, not as an empty bag.
Else it's just an empty bag of empty
Why? If I call an empty carton an empty carton of milk, I don't expect people to presume it once contained OJ.
Seriously, what is the problem? It was an empty baggy of MJ. A baggy that once contained MJ, but did not contain it when he was caught. A more accurate descriptin, you could not provide. If you called it a full bag of MJ, you would be wrong. So what's the fucking problem?
mnealtx 0
It was certainly important enough for you to mention that he *wasn't* running as fast as he could, so why change the story now?
Uh, no. May have been, may not have been, but not right from the start. So what's your problem?[/reply}
What was yours with the statement?Your entire point depends on Martin running faster than Zimmerman initially, so why do you care so much if I describe Martin as running as fast as he can or not? It makes no quantifiable difference, so what are you doing apart from playin meaningless, bullshit wordgames?
Pointing out that Martin outran Zimmerman, which takes the confrontation angle out of the picture. Sorta hard to confront someone that you can't get in reach of, isn't it?
Yeah? List 'em.Could you not be bothered to read them,
Actually, I have - how *ELSE* did I know the "time to die" scenario?or are you being purposefully dishonest? Either or, no third option.
Well, we see which option YOU took.
Never claimed Martin had the upper hand in the fight had anything to with whom approached whom. Maybe you should stop lying, yourself.911 transcript does not have Zimmerman returning to his truck. It has Zimmerman saying he will return to his truck. So, given the statement you replied to... in what fucking world do you equate Zimmerman's 911 statements with 'eyewitness' reports?
"OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]
Zimmerman:
Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]"
You're right - the mailboxes are actually *PAST* his truck.You said that 'eyewitness reports' give plenty of info on how Zimmerman came face to face with Martin. Flat out, unequivocably, that is what you said. So, what eyewitness reports? What do they say?
Really? Where did I claim that, absent the eyewitness report that I've already admitted I misread?
You're the one making the claim he needed to be afraid of Zimmerman.Why would Martin need to know that Zimmerman had a confrontational history if Zimmerman was being confrontational? Especially given that Martin knew Zimmerman was following him?
Where did Zimmerman confront Martin? Martin started running, Zimmerman pursued and then stopped. In fact, Zimmerman had *LOST SIGHT* of Martin:
"It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]"
Where's the confrontation?
He knew it was Zimmerman following him?Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Yep.
There's a distinctly fishy smell about the whole affair.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
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