Florida Teen Shot

[SkyChimp 0]

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If the redneck cops in FL won't do it, the feds need to step in.

Ok Andy.... That would be like someone saying everyone in Wheaton, IL should put their helmets back on.

Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?!

[kallend 2,027]

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I'm sure the usual suspects are going to try refute it but you can say what you like, there is more than enough evidence for a clear thinking person to make a basic conclusion from the reported facts.

I'm a clear thinking person, I believe. And the 'facts' in the case keep shifting. Look how many height/weights have been 'reported', and that should be a pretty simple fact to get right. If they can't even get a solid physical measurement, something very simple, accurate and consistent in news reports, how on earth are any of the other 'facts' in the case to be trusted? Initially, I was all for having Zimmerman arrested, but the more I read, questioned, and analyzed the data, the more I realized... I don't know shit about what actually happened here, so am refraining from making a judgement call either way at this time.

Well, there's no doubt that TM was shot dead, and apart from mnealtx, no-one disputes that he was armed with groceries.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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Well, there's no doubt that TM was shot dead, and apart from mnealtx, no-one disputes that he was armed with groceries.

There's no doubt that TM was on top of Zimmerman attacking him, either, which is the reason he was shot dead.

Groceries had not one single damn thing to do with the incident and you know it. Your continued trolling of that red herring through the thread is nothing more than a (very) transparent attempt to portray Martin as a completely innocent victim.

You're not fooling anyone but yourself.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[DougH 270]

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Well, there's no doubt that TM was shot dead, and apart from mnealtx, no-one disputes that he was armed with groceries.

He was in the possesion of groceries, he was armed with his arms, which alledgedly he was using to slam Zimmerman's head into a concrete side walk after knocking him down with a sucker punch.

But you would be more worried bout the skittles I am sure, since up thread you have basically taken the position that you don't think getting your head slammed into concrete by a someone sitting on your chest is a risk of life issue.

The skittles could give you tooth decay, definetly more dangerous than have your head slammed into a hard surface.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[wlsc 0]

...George Zimmerman’s 'Jekyll and Hyde' personality came to be such a problem that he was fired from his job as a security guard, years before the Trayvon Martin case, according to a former co-worker.
The co-worker who told the New York Daily News that he has since lost touch with Zimmerman, described Zimmerman as one of the guys, but with a dark side.

The unidentified man told the paper: 'Usually he was just a cool guy. He liked to drink and hang with the women like the rest of us'.

He added: 'But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped.'
It was that attitude that led to Zimmerman ultimately being fired.

The man told the Daily News: 'He had a temper and he became a liability. 'One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted'.

'It was weird, because he was such a cool guy,

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2122583/Trayvon-Martin-case-George-Zimmermans-Jekyll-Hyde-temper-cost-security-guard-job.html#ixzz1qj1C7Css

[DougH 270]

Great, an unnamed ex coworker. That is credible enough to declare someone a racist murderer.

You should hear what your unnamed coworkers say about you!!!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[1969912 0]

Better quality video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqKSMMEYHxA

Pic attached

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[wlsc 0]

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Great, an unnamed ex coworker. That is credible enough to declare someone a racist murderer.

You should hear what your unnamed coworkers say about you!!!

I well remember my 4 years as a cash in hand Bouncer!! No, I remember now - That's Zimmerman.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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There's no doubt that TM was on top of Zimmerman attacking him,

Really? In your own words: you have proof of this?

[mnealtx 0]

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There's no doubt that TM was on top of Zimmerman attacking him,

Really? In your own words: you have proof of this?

Eyewitness reports to the police.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[devildog 0]

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Better quality video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqKSMMEYHxA

Pic attached

Looks woundish to me.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[mnealtx 0]

Looks like Martin had some violence issues, himself:

"As Dan Linehan, a blogger at Wagist.com, pointed out, correspondence with Martin on Twitter before he died alludes to an incident with a bus driver. "Yu ain't tell me you swung on a bus driver," Martin's cousin wrote to him on Feb. 21."

In fact, didn't Martin's girlfriend say that Martin said he was going to 'teach him a lesson'? (referring to Zimmerman)

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[devildog 0]

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In fact, didn't Martin's girlfriend say that Martin said he was going to 'teach him a lesson'? (referring to Zimmerman)

It's too bad we don't have that whole conversation on tape. I bet it would be pretty telling one way or the other.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[mnealtx 0]

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And the argument that race played a part isn't too difficult to establish from the evidence. What made this person 'suspicious' and worth following. Hoodies are worn by kids daily regardless of their location and they aren't a sign of suspicious behaviour. Why would he even follow him? He wasn't smashing 40s on the sidewalk or running around with a can of spray paint in his hand, the only thing that could logically play a role into making him look suspicious is his colour. I'm sure the usual suspects are going to try refute it but you can say what you like, there is more than enough evidence for a clear thinking person to make a basic conclusion from the reported facts.

Hi Meso - wanted to touch on this last paragraph. You *are* aware that race didn't even get mentioned until after the *DISPATCHER* asked the race, and even then Zimmerman wasn't positive, right?

From the 911 call transcript:
Zimmerman:
We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy. It’s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.

This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about. [00:25]

911 dispatcher:
OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman:
He looks black.

It wasn't until some 30 seconds later that Zimmerman could confirm Martin's race:

Zimmerman:
Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.
And he’s a black male.[1:03]

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[dks13827 3]

"this was an honest kid with no issues or problems."

Recent news is exactly the opposite of that statement. It also seems that the hispanic fellow was attacked and beaten before he pulled and used his gun.

[wlsc 0]

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And the argument that race played a part isn't too difficult to establish from the evidence. What made this person 'suspicious' and worth following. Hoodies are worn by kids daily regardless of their location and they aren't a sign of suspicious behaviour. Why would he even follow him? He wasn't smashing 40s on the sidewalk or running around with a can of spray paint in his hand, the only thing that could logically play a role into making him look suspicious is his colour. I'm sure the usual suspects are going to try refute it but you can say what you like, there is more than enough evidence for a clear thinking person to make a basic conclusion from the reported facts.

Hi Meso - wanted to touch on this last paragraph. You *are* aware that race didn't even get mentioned until after the *DISPATCHER* asked the race, and even then Zimmerman wasn't positive, right?

From the 911 call transcript:
Zimmerman:
We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy. It’s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.

This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about. [00:25]

911 dispatcher:
OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman:
He looks black.

It wasn't until some 30 seconds later that Zimmerman could confirm Martin's race:

Zimmerman:
Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.
And he’s a black male.[1:03]

The kid looked black and suspicious to Zimmerman. As soon as he'd confirmed he was black - the Hunt was on. This one wasn't going to get away.

[wlsc 0]

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"this was an honest kid with no issues or problems."

Recent news is exactly the opposite of that statement. It also seems that the hispanic fellow was attacked and beaten before he pulled and used his gun.

Most recent news is that Zimmerman didn't get beaten. Seems that broken nose wasn't really broken. Odd that the police would say it was broken when we all now know that it wasn't. We do know that killers often lie to cover their tracks. The police get to shoot black guys all the time. It just wasn't fair that Zimmerman couldn't do the same. He was almost a cop after all.

[rushmc 23]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6

Another example of media manipulation that the weak minded allow themselves to be affected by

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[pchapman 279]

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6

That's about the editing of Z.'s convesration with 911, shortening it down, in a way than can greatly change the interpretation of what his state of mind was.

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Another example of media manipulation that the weak minded allow themselves to be affected by

Huh? But what choice do we have, other than listen to media reports? We weren't there. In isolation, how can we know that any one reported fact is incorrect?

In this case, after a few days (?) some more detail has been discovered and things made clearer.

I certainly would agree that whatever a situation looks like, it can be good to withhold final judgment when the facts are confusing and information appears limited. Doesn't mean one can't argue different issues in the meantime though. (Like in the Incidents forum.)

[rushmc 23]

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6

That's about the editing of Z.'s convesration with 911, shortening it down, in a way than can greatly change the interpretation of what his state of mind was.

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Another example of media manipulation that the weak minded allow themselves to be affected by

Huh? But what choice do we have, other than listen to media reports? We weren't there. In isolation, how can we know that any one reported fact is incorrect?

In this case, after a few days (?) some more detail has been discovered and things made clearer.

I certainly would agree that whatever a situation looks like, it can be good to withhold final judgment when the facts are confusing and information appears limited. Doesn't mean one can't argue different issues in the meantime though. (Like in the Incidents forum.)

Your point have merit

But
Why does the media need to "adjust" the story

Examples
The kids picture
The changing of the phone conversation
The reason the kid was out of school (which we really still do not know for sure)

The media doing this allows those who are predetermined to hang Zimmerman have a reason to keep being assholes

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,027]

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6

That's about the editing of Z.'s convesration with 911, shortening it down, in a way than can greatly change the interpretation of what his state of mind was.

Quote

Another example of media manipulation that the weak minded allow themselves to be affected by

Huh? But what choice do we have, other than listen to media reports? We weren't there. In isolation, how can we know that any one reported fact is incorrect?

In this case, after a few days (?) some more detail has been discovered and things made clearer.

I certainly would agree that whatever a situation looks like, it can be good to withhold final judgment when the facts are confusing and information appears limited. Doesn't mean one can't argue different issues in the meantime though. (Like in the Incidents forum.)

Your point have merit

But
Why does the media need to "adjust" the story

Examples
The kids picture
The changing of the phone conversation
The reason the kid was out of school (which we really still do not know for sure)

The media doing this allows those who are predetermined to hang Zimmerman have a reason to keep being assholes

And vice versa. Reading this thread shows a large fraction of the usual suspect convinced that Zimmerman is an angel and TM the devil incarnate.

Here's some more "data":

www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/01/voice-heard-screaming-on-11-tape-is-not-trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman/?google_editors_picks=true

Go figure.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[devildog 0]

Looks like there's a witness to the wounds now

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/neighbor-defends-george-zimmerman-03302012

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TAMPA - One of George Zimmerman's neighbors is speaking out, saying looks can be deceiving.

Despite booking video from the Sanford Police Department that many say shows George Zimmerman largely unscathed from his encounter with Trayvon Martin, the neighbor said he saw Zimmerman with obvious injuries.

The neighbor is talking for the first time about what he saw on George Zimmerman's face less than 24-hours after Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin.

"I saw George. He was banged up. His head had two big bandages, that weren't flat, had a bump on them," the neighbor, who did not want to be identified, said.

He described where the injuries were.

"I seen him have a big bandage on his nose and his nose swollen. On the side, where his eyes were at, it was swollen," he said.

He points out exactly where on a picture.

"I seen the bandage right here, and this side of his nose and this side of his nose was swollen.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[rushmc 23]

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6

That's about the editing of Z.'s convesration with 911, shortening it down, in a way than can greatly change the interpretation of what his state of mind was.

Quote

Another example of media manipulation that the weak minded allow themselves to be affected by

Huh? But what choice do we have, other than listen to media reports? We weren't there. In isolation, how can we know that any one reported fact is incorrect?

In this case, after a few days (?) some more detail has been discovered and things made clearer.

I certainly would agree that whatever a situation looks like, it can be good to withhold final judgment when the facts are confusing and information appears limited. Doesn't mean one can't argue different issues in the meantime though. (Like in the Incidents forum.)

Your point have merit

But
Why does the media need to "adjust" the story

Examples
The kids picture
The changing of the phone conversation
The reason the kid was out of school (which we really still do not know for sure)

The media doing this allows those who are predetermined to hang Zimmerman have a reason to keep being assholes

And vice versa. Reading this thread shows a large fraction of the usual suspect convinced that Zimmerman is an angel and TM the devil incarnate.

Here's some more "data":

www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/01/voice-heard-screaming-on-11-tape-is-not-trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman/?google_editors_picks=true

Go figure.

Since you have already picked a side, you find it hard to see that I havent

Go figure

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,027]

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6

That's about the editing of Z.'s convesration with 911, shortening it down, in a way than can greatly change the interpretation of what his state of mind was.

Quote

Another example of media manipulation that the weak minded allow themselves to be affected by

Huh? But what choice do we have, other than listen to media reports? We weren't there. In isolation, how can we know that any one reported fact is incorrect?

In this case, after a few days (?) some more detail has been discovered and things made clearer.

I certainly would agree that whatever a situation looks like, it can be good to withhold final judgment when the facts are confusing and information appears limited. Doesn't mean one can't argue different issues in the meantime though. (Like in the Incidents forum.)

Your point have merit

But
Why does the media need to "adjust" the story

Examples
The kids picture
The changing of the phone conversation
The reason the kid was out of school (which we really still do not know for sure)

The media doing this allows those who are predetermined to hang Zimmerman have a reason to keep being assholes

And vice versa. Reading this thread shows a large fraction of the usual suspect convinced that Zimmerman is an angel and TM the devil incarnate.

Here's some more "data":

www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/01/voice-heard-screaming-on-11-tape-is-not-trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman/?google_editors_picks=true

Go figure.

Since you have already picked a side, you find it hard to see that I havent

Go figure

No, I haven't picked a side at all. I have made it VERY clear that I don't believe much of anything about this case except that TM was shot by GZ while carrying groceries. All the rest is just talk, claim and counter claim.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6

That's about the editing of Z.'s convesration with 911, shortening it down, in a way than can greatly change the interpretation of what his state of mind was.

Quote

Another example of media manipulation that the weak minded allow themselves to be affected by

Huh? But what choice do we have, other than listen to media reports? We weren't there. In isolation, how can we know that any one reported fact is incorrect?

In this case, after a few days (?) some more detail has been discovered and things made clearer.

I certainly would agree that whatever a situation looks like, it can be good to withhold final judgment when the facts are confusing and information appears limited. Doesn't mean one can't argue different issues in the meantime though. (Like in the Incidents forum.)

Your point have merit

But
Why does the media need to "adjust" the story

Examples
The kids picture
The changing of the phone conversation
The reason the kid was out of school (which we really still do not know for sure)

The media doing this allows those who are predetermined to hang Zimmerman have a reason to keep being assholes

And vice versa. Reading this thread shows a large fraction of the usual suspect convinced that Zimmerman is an angel and TM the devil incarnate.

Here's some more "data":

www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/01/voice-heard-screaming-on-11-tape-is-not-trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman/?google_editors_picks=true

Go figure.

Since you have already picked a side, you find it hard to see that I havent

Go figure

No, I haven't picked a side at all. I have made it VERY clear that I don't believe much of anything about this case except that TM was shot by GZ while carrying groceries. All the rest is just talk, claim and counter claim.

As have I

So just jumping others shit is what you are doing today

Ok

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln