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mnealtx 0
Please provide a link to this. I must be remembering another witness.
link
"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.
link
In addition, an eyewitness, 13-year-old Austin Brown, told police he saw a man fitting Zimmerman's description lying on the grass moaning and crying for help just seconds before he heard the gunshot that killed Martin.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
billvon 3,006
>Guess they should have made you the special prosecutor . . .
Why? She did her job.
>you've already created the scenario, which laws apply and the guilt of
>Zimmerman.
Hey look! A strawman! Tell us what it looks like and what it said. We're dying to know.
Why? She did her job.
>you've already created the scenario, which laws apply and the guilt of
>Zimmerman.
Hey look! A strawman! Tell us what it looks like and what it said. We're dying to know.
mnealtx 0
>Guess they should have made you the special prosecutor . . .
Why? She did her job.
>you've already created the scenario, which laws apply and the guilt of
>Zimmerman.
Hey look! A strawman! Tell us what it looks like and what it said. We're dying to know.
You're just *NOW* figuring out that you've been dragging Ray Bolger behind you this entire thread?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
billvon 3,006
Fascinating! So we have someone dragging a guy named Ray Bolger; good start. Please continue with your creation.
mnealtx 0
Fascinating! So we have someone dragging a guy named Ray Bolger; good start. Please continue with your creation.
Scenario:
"Does a guy with a gun who's coming after you count?"
"So if a guy came at you with a gun"
"And you'd also probably defend yourself if an armed stranger came up to you while you were walking back from the store and threatened you. "
"(Hint there - the reason Zimmerman is wearing an orange suit in his pictures isn't because he likes orange.) "
"You are walking along the street and a guy walks up to you. He tells you "time to die, motherfucker. Turn around." and he goes for his gun."
"If the kid assaulted the man after the man threatened him with a gun, then that was a justified response."
Guilt:
""neighborhood watch" guy would end up killing their son as he returned from buying Skittles. "
"Cutting one's face seems a small price to pay to escape a long jail sentence. "
Say hi to Ray for us.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
winsor 236
Once the decision is made to shoot, you need to shoot to kill. Sometimes shooting people in non vital areas just agitates them and they then take you weapon and don't show you the same common courtesy you tried to show them.
I have to beg to differ here. The only legal and moral justification for shooting when attacked is to stop the attack, and the same is true if using lethal force to halt an attack on an innocent.
The difference is significant; the purpose is to incapacitate, not kill.
Additionally, if someone shoots to maim they are entirely in the wrong. If you have enough control of the situation that you can selectively shoot a knee or hip instead of center of mass, you have enough control of the situation that you do not need to shoot.
One should view a concealed firearm as one would an emergency parachute. For one thing, it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it, since when you need it you need it badly. For another thing, if you actually need it you are in pretty bad shape to begin with, and it provides no guarantee of a satisfactory outcome.
Another analogy is between CCWs and AADs. Only an idiot would enter into a situation where they were reasonably sure that that either was necessary for survival.
If Z had used pepper spray or a taser instead of lethal force, he would not be as likely to have the legal troubles he now faces. Since he put himself in a position where he may (or may not) have been subject to an ass-kicking, it was his actions that resulted in his further decision to resort to lethal force - a decision for which he will be held responsible.
If he was truly in danger of immediate death, I suppose being on the green side of the sod in any form is preferable. If he was simply being thrashed for being an overbearing busybody, his response was entirely unwarranted and he should not expect a lot of sympathy for his current straits.
All things being considered, if he had left well enough alone and a cop then had reason to shoot the kid, the squad car would likely have video of the event and it would be easier to tell if it was justifiable.
Even when armed, the best defense is found in Monty Pyton and the Holy Grail - "Run away! Run away!"
BSBD,
Winsor
Agreed, but it also seems to me its what they both did. The result probably would have been the most interesting if Martin also had a gun, but I bet their families wish neither of them had. Zimmerman shouldn't have chased Martin. Martin shouldn't have hit Zimmerman. Both did dumb things that any reasonable person would consider threatening. I wish they'd just settled it with a good old fashioned fist fight...they'd both have been healed up and on with their lives a bit wiser for it weeks ago.
Blues,
Dave
(drink Mountain Dew)
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