Florida Teen Shot

[sundevil777 102]

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Let's let the FBI investigation into this possibly being a race crime complete before we make any claims on that, eh?

This case has nothing to do with race.

How do you know that?

Did the neighborhood vigilante hassle white kids in oxford shirts walking through the community carrying groceries?

So you're using the word vigilante in a positive sense - watchman, right? As long as you mean it as a compliment, that he would provide such service to his community, then I can agree that is what you meant.

Ya, right!

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[muff528 3]

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I really laughing at you trying to twist the word vigilante to make it mean what you want it to mean.

Ya, I think his definition of groceries is also a tad off from what is considered common public sense...

The general public's normal concept of groceries:
http://www.google.com/search?q=groceries&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=hvOKT4PeOaXe0QGXwNnKCQ&biw=1366&bih=582&sei=ivOKT4TdAcPv0gHfnYHZCQ#um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=groceries&oq=groceries&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_l=img.3..0l10.41428l43286l0l44844l9l9l0l4l4l0l164l649l0j5l5l0.frgbld.&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=8a90d391f0a861a1&biw=1366&bih=582

Kallend's concept of groceries:
http://www.promo-wholesale.com/Upfiles/Prod_q/Dlk-Mini-Shopping-Cart-With-Skittles-Candy_20090687079.jpg

I realize that Detroit is going through some bad times. However, in Illinois, grocery stores sell candy and iced tea.

They also sell brooms and drain cleaner. Where I live, we don't call those items groceries. Chicago is a strange place.

I think he's got you there, Gravity. "Groceries" refers to food or commodities sold by a grocer. For example, Walmart is a grocer so anything they sell could be called "groceries". They also sell guns. So it could be said that Z was packing "groceries" that night, too.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>Where I live, we don't call those items groceries.

It's fun to watch the Zimmerman supporters try to redefine words to support their case.

Not as much fun as watching the Martin supporters claim someone who is part of a Neighborhood Watch group be defined as a vigilante, a Hispanic referred to as a white racist and Skittles referred to as groceries.

[wlsc 0]

I reckon Zimmerman will get what - 20 years? I bet he wishes he'd stayed in his nice safe truck.

[kallend 2,027]

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>Where I live, we don't call those items groceries.

It's fun to watch the Zimmerman supporters try to redefine words to support their case.

Not as much fun as watching the Martin supporters claim someone who is part of a Neighborhood Watch group be defined as a vigilante, a Hispanic referred to as a white racist and Skittles referred to as groceries.

"Vigilante" = "watchman". Sorry you don't like it, but that IS the meaning. Same Latin root as "vigilant".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,027]

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>Where I live, we don't call those items groceries.

It's fun to watch the Zimmerman supporters try to redefine words to support their case.

Not as much fun as watching the Martin supporters claim someone who is part of a Neighborhood Watch group be defined as a vigilante, a Hispanic referred to as a white racist and Skittles referred to as groceries.

Just for the record, I'm not a supporter of either party in this. I think a trial by a jury of his peers is the only correct way to determine the truth of the matter. Not trial by internet. Then the REAL evidence (such as the medical examiner's report" will be available.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Coreece 190]

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>Where I live, we don't call those items groceries.

It's fun to watch the Zimmerman supporters try to redefine words to support their case.

Not as much fun as watching the Martin supporters claim someone who is part of a Neighborhood Watch group be defined as a vigilante, a Hispanic referred to as a white racist and Skittles referred to as groceries.

Just for the record, I'm not a supporter of either party in this. I think a trial by a jury of his peers is the only correct way to determine the truth of the matter. Not trial by internet. Then the REAL evidence (such as the medical examiner's report" will be available.

+1

...but I am going to the movies tonight to see "The Three Stooges." Still deciding if should get my grocery shopping done while I'm at the concession stand.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>Where I live, we don't call those items groceries.

It's fun to watch the Zimmerman supporters try to redefine words to support their case.

Not as much fun as watching the Martin supporters claim someone who is part of a Neighborhood Watch group be defined as a vigilante, a Hispanic referred to as a white racist and Skittles referred to as groceries.

Just for the record, I'm not a supporter of either party in this. I think a trial by a jury of his peers is the only correct way to determine the truth of the matter. Not trial by internet. Then the REAL evidence (such as the medical examiner's report" will be available.

Uh, oh. Here comes the famous Kallend tap dance. Calling Z a vigilante is most definitely taking sides.

[normiss 801]

I would be somewhat surprised if this actually goes to trial.
Insufficient evidence to support the charges brought.
If he claims self defense and the evidence supports it, this is over.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>Where I live, we don't call those items groceries.

It's fun to watch the Zimmerman supporters try to redefine words to support their case.

Not as much fun as watching the Martin supporters claim someone who is part of a Neighborhood Watch group be defined as a vigilante, a Hispanic referred to as a white racist and Skittles referred to as groceries.

"Vigilante" = "watchman". Sorry you don't like it, but that IS the meaning. Same Latin root as "vigilant".

I'm pretty sure the only one who believes that is you. But please don't let me get in your way while you continue to provide some humor.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I would be somewhat surprised if this actually goes to trial.
Insufficient evidence to support the charges brought.
If he claims self defense and the evidence supports it, this is over.

There's insufficient evidence which has been presented publically to convict on _second degree murder_.

Conviction on a lesser included offense like some form of manslaughter or assault (in some places "brawling" is enough for a conviction) looks a lot more likely.

[ryoder 1,590]

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I would be somewhat surprised if this actually goes to trial.
Insufficient evidence to support the charges brought.
If he claims self defense and the evidence supports it, this is over.

Let's look at Tryavon's POV:
- According to a NYT article, Zimmerman was a permanent resident of the complex, but Trayvon was only there temporarily, which explains why they did not know each other. Trayvon was in an unfamiliar neighborhood.
- Zimmerman apparently had no marking on his car or clothing identifying him as a Neighborhood Patrolman.
- Zimmerman was wearing a bright red jacket. There is at least one well-known gang whose color is red.

I'm thinking that Trayvon could have believed he was being stalked by a gang-banger, and pre-emptively attacked a guy he thought was about to attack him. This would fit with what we have heard of Zimmerman's account.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[wlsc 0]

So Trayvon stood his ground after being pursued by Zimmerman.

[popsjumper 2]

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I would be somewhat surprised if this actually goes to trial.
Insufficient evidence to support the charges brought.
If he claims self defense and the evidence supports it, this is over.

I'd like to agree with you but this has already become a media circus and a political issue....and we know how those things turn out. Juries are NOT immune to community politics...and neither are judges.

I think Z is going to be screwed regardless of the reality of the happening.

The laws regarding legal gun ownership and carrying are not going to save you from the gun-o-phobes in the political arena.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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It's fun to watch the Zimmerman supporters try to redefine words to support their case.

It's fun to watch people come up with off-the-wall beliefs of what happened while ignoring any and all available information. It's even more fun to watch them ride that horse...at a full gallop...with blinders on.
Dream on, people!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[ryoder 1,590]

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So Trayvon stood his ground after being pursued by Zimmerman.

If the scenario I proposed was what happened, SYG is not applicable, since it he would have been initiating the attack. Being followed is not the same as being attacked.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[wlsc 0]

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So Trayvon stood his ground after being pursued by Zimmerman.

If the scenario I proposed was what happened, SYG is not applicable, since it he would have been initiating the attack. Being followed is not the same as being attacked.

Trayvon ran. Zimmerman ran after him. That's not being followed - that's being pursued. At which point Martin stood his ground.

[kallend 2,027]

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>Where I live, we don't call those items groceries.

It's fun to watch the Zimmerman supporters try to redefine words to support their case.

Not as much fun as watching the Martin supporters claim someone who is part of a Neighborhood Watch group be defined as a vigilante, a Hispanic referred to as a white racist and Skittles referred to as groceries.

Just for the record, I'm not a supporter of either party in this. I think a trial by a jury of his peers is the only correct way to determine the truth of the matter. Not trial by internet. Then the REAL evidence (such as the medical examiner's report" will be available.

Uh, oh. Here comes the famous Kallend tap dance. Calling Z a vigilante is most definitely taking sides.

Nope. It is simply an accurate description of an Hispanic neighborhood watchman.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>Where I live, we don't call those items groceries.

It's fun to watch the Zimmerman supporters try to redefine words to support their case.

Not as much fun as watching the Martin supporters claim someone who is part of a Neighborhood Watch group be defined as a vigilante, a Hispanic referred to as a white racist and Skittles referred to as groceries.

Just for the record, I'm not a supporter of either party in this. I think a trial by a jury of his peers is the only correct way to determine the truth of the matter. Not trial by internet. Then the REAL evidence (such as the medical examiner's report" will be available.

Uh, oh. Here comes the famous Kallend tap dance. Calling Z a vigilante is most definitely taking sides.

Nope. It is simply an accurate description of an Hispanic neighborhood watchman.

Uh, huh, right. I understand.

[kallend 2,027]

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>Where I live, we don't call those items groceries.

It's fun to watch the Zimmerman supporters try to redefine words to support their case.

Not as much fun as watching the Martin supporters claim someone who is part of a Neighborhood Watch group be defined as a vigilante, a Hispanic referred to as a white racist and Skittles referred to as groceries.

Just for the record, I'm not a supporter of either party in this. I think a trial by a jury of his peers is the only correct way to determine the truth of the matter. Not trial by internet. Then the REAL evidence (such as the medical examiner's report" will be available.

Uh, oh. Here comes the famous Kallend tap dance. Calling Z a vigilante is most definitely taking sides.

Nope. It is simply an accurate description of an Hispanic neighborhood watchman.

Uh, huh, right. I understand.

Good. Never stop learning.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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So Trayvon stood his ground after being pursued by Zimmerman.

If the scenario I proposed was what happened, SYG is not applicable, since it he would have been initiating the attack. Being followed is not the same as being attacked.

Trayvon ran. Zimmerman ran after him. That's not being followed - that's being pursued. At which point Martin stood his ground.

There is not one news report that stated Zimmerman ran after Martin

Please

at least in your self inflicted race blindness, at least get what little we do know straight

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

What I learned isn't what you think it is. What's the Spanish word for Self-delusion.

[ryoder 1,590]

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There is not one news report that stated Zimmerman ran after Martin

That post actually gave me some insight into the thinking of people arguing Martin was defending himself. I was thinking that Zimmerman was just following at a walking pace in order to keep Martin in sight until the patrol car arrived, but if Martin ran, and was zig-zagging through the complex, then by necessity Zimmerman may have had to run to maintain visual contact. In that case, from Martin's POV, it could have looked like he was trying to attack.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[rushmc 23]

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There is not one news report that stated Zimmerman ran after Martin

That post actually gave me some insight into the thinking of people arguing Martin was defending himself. I was thinking that Zimmerman was just following at a walking pace in order to keep Martin in sight until the patrol car arrived, but if Martin ran, and was zig-zagging through the complex, then by necessity Zimmerman may have had to run to maintain visual contact. In that case, from Martin's POV, it could have looked like he was trying to attack.

Agreed

But, as far as we know, I have not seen one report indicating this to be the case

And if it was the case, why would the fight and shot be in the grass near Zimmermans car?

Being near the car seems to support Zimmermans claim that he lost sight of Martin and returned to his car where he was confronted by Martin

As others have stated here, I will be a bit surprised (based on what little we know now) if Zimmerman goes to trial.

The arrest at this point is political IMO

The rest will play out

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,027]

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So Trayvon stood his ground after being pursued by Zimmerman.

If the scenario I proposed was what happened, SYG is not applicable, since it he would have been initiating the attack. Being followed is not the same as being attacked.

Trayvon ran. Zimmerman ran after him. That's not being followed - that's being pursued. At which point Martin stood his ground.

There is not one news report that stated Zimmerman ran after Martin

Please

at least in your self inflicted race blindness, at least get what little we do know straight

News reports are not admissible evidence. EVERYONE stop making up scenarios based on news reports, hearsay, and "eyewitness" reports from friends and family. Let the judicial system do its job.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.