Florida Teen Shot

[rushmc 23]

Quote

TM is being blamed for not calling the police by the people who usually loudly proclaim they are armed because the police cannot be relied upon for self defence

I think you are shifting the argument

This argument is being used to show the hypocrisy of those who are saying GZ should have just waited for police. If GZ should have, so should have TM

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[matthewcline 0]

Typically the Police can't get there fats enough, they have small numbers and big territory.

But if TM had hung up with his girl friend and called 911, maybe some one in the call center would have said, "hey, wait a minute" and the two dispatchers could have each told GZ and TM stop, you two are calling in on each other etc.

I think that might have been the posters point, however, i could be wrong.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

This argument is being used to show the hypocrisy of those who are saying GZ should have just waited for police. If GZ should have, so should have TM

There is a bit of a difference between the two.

GZ had no reason to feel personally threatened when he decided to follow TM.

I can see how TM would feel personally theatened by being followed.

I thought that when you felt personally threatened you were supposed to be able to defend yourself, not rely on the police?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

But if TM had hung up with his girl friend and called 911, maybe some one in the call center would have said, "hey, wait a minute" and the two dispatchers could have each told GZ and TM stop, you two are calling in on each other etc.

I think that might have been the posters point, however, i could be wrong.

I get that. I find ti interesting that people who are proposing that course of action now, normally loudly proclaim that you need to rely on yourself for self defence.

The same crowd who normally mockingly "shouts": stop or I'll call 911.

[normiss 800]

They should start a neighborhood watch program then.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

This argument is being used to show the hypocrisy of those who are saying GZ should have just waited for police. If GZ should have, so should have TM

There is a bit of a difference between the two.

GZ had no reason to feel personally threatened when he decided to follow TM.

I can see how TM would feel personally theatened by being followed.

I thought that when you felt personally threatened you were supposed to be able to defend yourself, not rely on the police?

If he was cornered or in imediate danger? Yes, I would agree with you

It appears however, the TM sought out a confrontation. I appears the GZ was not and was given no choice

(note; I said "appears". This opinion is based on police provided evidense. I was not there)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

I thought that when you felt personally threatened you were supposed to be able to defend yourself, not rely on the police?

I think some truly believe that a willingness to go through life without (almost) always carrying a gun makes one a second class citizen.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[mirage62 0]

There are some painful points here on both sides that neither wants to see.

Zimmerman could have stayed in the car.
TM could have called the police, ran home a number of things.

The physical evidence is limited but seems to support for the most part Zimmermans story.

When you peel away the pain of a young man being killed, the emotion of the press, in the end TM is dead. No one else seems to have seen anything. Zimmerman crediability is somewhat questionable.

In the end unless they come up with something that really proves that Zimmerman story is a lie, the physical evidence will clear him UNLESS the jury decides that because someone die, someone has to be punished.

Just my thoughts.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

I find ti interesting that people who are proposing that course of action now, normally loudly proclaim that you need to rely on yourself for self defence.

The same crowd who normally mockingly "shouts": stop or I'll call 911.

I find it ironic that those advocating self protection are saying TM should have called the cops instead of the girlfriend.

I find it ironic that those advocating 'run and hide' are defending TM for confronting someone.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[normiss 800]

Very well said.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

I find it ironic that those advocating self protection are saying TM should have called the cops instead of the girlfriend.

I find it ironic that those advocating 'run and hide' are defending TM for confronting someone.

Thanks for summing it up better than I did!

It is indeed interesting to see people take the exact opposite stance of what they usually do, just so they can "protect" their own opinion.

[Gravitymaster 0]

I wonder how far from his front door TM was? If he was near it and then doubled back to confront GZ, then that would make him the aggressor.

[billvon 2,991]

>There are consequences to poorly thought out stupid decisions.

Agreed. And in this case that might mean being in jail for a long, long time.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>There are consequences to poorly thought out stupid decisions.

Agreed. And in this case that might mean being in jail for a long, long time.

If he deserves it then that is as it should be

But it really appears you support him going to jail just to cover a social argument and political point

That would really be justice then

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,991]

>But it really appears you support him going to jail just to cover a social argument and
>political point

Nope. I just want a judge and jury to decide, rather than the kangaroo court of public opinion.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>But it really appears you support him going to jail just to cover a social argument and
>political point

Nope. I just want a judge and jury to decide, rather than the kangaroo court of public opinion.

You want it in front of a court because of the political ramifications of the mess the media created with their dishonest reporting early on. Reporting many here took hook line and sinker and got in early on the posting in this thread

But, if there is not evidense to take this to court, it should not go there. Why should some one need to go through the expense and time of a trial just to satisfy to the PC police?

I'll answer that. They shouldn't

I hope GZ will not have to unles there is other evidense out there to support your position that we have not yet seen

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 800]

This is my understanding of how it actually went down anyway.

Cops looked at the evidence in front of them, witness statements, Zimmerman's statements, considered the law, pressed no charges and turned it over to the State Attorney office.

..........and then........

[billvon 2,991]

>You want it in front of a court because of the political ramifications of the mess
>the media created with their dishonest reporting early on.

Nope. I want it in front of a court because they are better equipped to decide his guilt or innocence than the media. But I understand your wish that it be kept out of court.

> Why should some one need to go through the expense and time of a trial just to
> satisfy to the PC police?

Because he killed an unarmed teenager, and there is some question about what really happened.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>You want it in front of a court because of the political ramifications of the mess
>the media created with their dishonest reporting early on.

Nope. I want it in front of a court because they are better equipped to decide his guilt or innocence than the media. But I understand your wish that it be kept out of court.

> Why should some one need to go through the expense and time of a trial just to
> satisfy to the PC police?

Because he killed an unarmed teenager, and there is some question about what really happened.

Not a wish. I just want normal proper procedure to be followed

As your post here shows again

You wish him to go to court no matter what with or without evidense to go after him

I want justice

Not sure what you want

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

This is my understanding of how it actually went down anyway.

Cops looked at the evidence in front of them, witness statements, Zimmerman's statements, considered the law, pressed no charges and turned it over to the State Attorney office.

..........and then........

A special prosecutor is brought in for whatever reasons, takes it to a grand jury and files an indictment that some of the best lawyers in the country say is a complete and utter joke

Politics at its best
Politics is NOT justice

But this process is supported by many here it seems

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,991]

>You wish him to go to court no matter what with or without evidense to go after him

No, I want him to go to court because he killed an unarmed teenager.

>I want justice

You want him to go free no matter what; you have said so many times. You have decided, like many, that you know exactly what happened, and that he is innocent of any crime. And while your certainty is quite common (on both sides of the argument) unless you were there it is misplaced. A judge, not you, is the best person to decide.

[rushmc 23]

Now you are mind reading

And again

You wish GZ to go to court no matter what. For what reasons I can only guess

I was not there. I have stated I was not there. I have stated my opinions are based on what eveidense has been released put against GZ story

Some one dies and you think there has to be a trial

I do not understand that

Makes no sense

Cop’s gather the evidence. They make charges on the spot or pass it on prosecutors. Prosecutors make determinations on whether to charge or not

It seemed, until the media (who lied to build this story up) made a mess of this and raised emotions (notice I said emotions which is NOT clear thinking) the process GZ was going through was normal

Now it is not

People have gotten caught up in this and somehow think that there HAS to be a trial

Bull shit

The only reason to have a trial is when evidence presents itself to support that action

Otherwise it is just a political gotcha or punishment

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,991]

>Some one dies and you think there has to be a trial I do not understand that

That's because you're trying very, very hard to misunderstand.

I do not think that any time someone dies there has to be a trial. I think that when an armed man gets out of his car to pursue an unarmed teenager, and ends up killing him, and can't keep his story straight about what happened - then yes, there should be a trial to try to find out what really happened.

[muff528 3]

Quote

>But it really appears you support him going to jail just to cover a social argument and
>political point

Nope. I just want a judge and jury to decide, rather than the kangaroo court of public opinion.

I'm predicting that this case will never see a judge and jury ...one way or another. The kangaroo court has already dropped the hammer.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>Some one dies and you think there has to be a trial I do not understand that

That's because you're trying very, very hard to misunderstand.

I do not think that any time someone dies there has to be a trial. I think that when an armed man gets out of his car to pursue an unarmed teenager, and ends up killing him, and can't keep his story straight about what happened - then yes, there should be a trial to try to find out what really happened.

Now I understand

It is the story you want to believe driving your opinion

I guess you were there then

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln