rushmc 23 #2551 September 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAmazing what the cost of defending innocence is becoming. I hear that most criminals plead "not guilty", which is why we have trials with juries in the first place - to be the decider of fact. If police and prosecutors were infallible, no trials would be necessary. Cool Then somebody can claim you kicked their kid You can hire a lawyer and a jury can decide just how bad a criminal you are or are not Nobody is claiming that TM is dead. He IS dead, shot by Z. I hope nobody ever shoots your family member dead, claims self defense, and so the police decide to let the shooter go. Hey, he said you kicked their kid Get you lawyer and go to trial PERIOD! Why don't you tell us what you think the perfect method of determing guilt or innocence is in disputed cases, since clearly you don't like jury trials. You said a jury decides the facts You gotta live with your position Get youself a lawyer and get to trial I dont give a damn if the investigation shows you didnt The parents claim you kicked the kid A jury has to decide in kallend world"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 800 #2552 September 10, 2012 Watch it...kallend world comes with looney detectors. Paired with his criminal system, you're fucked! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #2553 September 10, 2012 Your replies are just absurd. Juries DO decide the facts in disputed criminal and civil cases. That's how our society works. This IS a disputed case where a real homicide has been committed. It needs to go to a jury. What better process than jury trial would you prefer?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #2554 September 10, 2012 QuoteWatch it...kallend world comes with looney detectors. Paired with his criminal system, you're fucked! What better process than jury trials would you prefer to determine guilt or innocence in criminal cases? That some elected official decide? Or a political appointee?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2555 September 10, 2012 Quote Your replies are just absurd. Juries DO decide the facts in disputed criminal and civil cases. That's how our society works. This IS a disputed case where a real homicide has been committed. It needs to go to a jury. What better process than jury trial would you prefer? If it needs to go to a jury after a proper investigation says that it was self defense, then you (as a kid kicker) needs to go to trial as well PERIOD"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #2556 September 10, 2012 QuoteThat's what a grand jury is for. Although it is often a rubber stamp, the prosecutor can't proceed if the grand jury does not agree that there is sufficient evidence. The point is that prosecutors have the discretion to not prosecute, to not take it to a grand jury or any court at all.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 800 #2557 September 10, 2012 Which WAS the decision prosecution had made in this case. Until the race baiters started marching. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2558 September 10, 2012 QuoteWhich WAS the decision prosecution had made in this case. Until the race baiters started marching. +1"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #2559 September 10, 2012 QuoteThe point is that prosecutors have the discretion to not prosecute, to not take it to a grand jury or any court at all. Of course they do. My point is that there is another level of checks to prevent purely frivilous prosecution. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #2560 September 10, 2012 QuoteQuote Your replies are just absurd. Juries DO decide the facts in disputed criminal and civil cases. That's how our society works. This IS a disputed case where a real homicide has been committed. It needs to go to a jury. What better process than jury trial would you prefer? If it needs to go to a jury after a proper investigation says that it was self defense, then you (as a kid kicker) needs to go to trial as well PERIOD The word "proper" is key here, isn't it? That seems to be in dispute in the TM case. Which is why a jury trial is called for.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #2561 September 10, 2012 QuoteWhich WAS the decision prosecution had made in this case. Until the race baiters started marching. Racism is bidirectional.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2562 September 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote Your replies are just absurd. Juries DO decide the facts in disputed criminal and civil cases. That's how our society works. This IS a disputed case where a real homicide has been committed. It needs to go to a jury. What better process than jury trial would you prefer? If it needs to go to a jury after a proper investigation says that it was self defense, then you (as a kid kicker) needs to go to trial as well PERIOD The word "proper" is key here, isn't it? That seems to be in dispute in the TM case. Which is why a jury trial is called for. You are well connected in Cook County There is a dispute as to whether the investigation was even done Off to court with you"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #2563 September 10, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Your replies are just absurd. Juries DO decide the facts in disputed criminal and civil cases. That's how our society works. This IS a disputed case where a real homicide has been committed. It needs to go to a jury. What better process than jury trial would you prefer? If it needs to go to a jury after a proper investigation says that it was self defense, then you (as a kid kicker) needs to go to trial as well PERIOD The word "proper" is key here, isn't it? That seems to be in dispute in the TM case. Which is why a jury trial is called for. You are well connected in Cook County There is a dispute as to whether the investigation was even done Off to court with you Would you trust a Cook County prosecutor to be honest? If so, I have a bridge for you, cheap. Thanks for making my point.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2564 September 10, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Your replies are just absurd. Juries DO decide the facts in disputed criminal and civil cases. That's how our society works. This IS a disputed case where a real homicide has been committed. It needs to go to a jury. What better process than jury trial would you prefer? If it needs to go to a jury after a proper investigation says that it was self defense, then you (as a kid kicker) needs to go to trial as well PERIOD The word "proper" is key here, isn't it? That seems to be in dispute in the TM case. Which is why a jury trial is called for. You are well connected in Cook County There is a dispute as to whether the investigation was even done Off to court with you Would you trust a Cook County prosecutor to be honest? If so, I have a bridge for you, cheap. Thanks for making my point. In the mean time You go to court"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #2565 September 10, 2012 Tell us, Marc, what system you would find preferable to a jury trial in a system where prosecutors and police make mistakes, and are often corrupt political appointees.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2566 September 10, 2012 Quote Tell us, Marc, what system you would find preferable to a jury trial in a system where prosecutors and police make mistakes, and are often corrupt political appointees. You tell us After you trial BTW The kid was black Now you are a racist kid kicker"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2567 September 10, 2012 What makes your "crime" really interesting was it happened months ago. After the investigation the cops determined that this was a bogus claim just because the parents were ticked off that you flunked their child And since you had the tests to prove the kid flunked you did what you had to do So, the parents accused you of kicking their kid (who happened to be black) Now the media has got ahold of this. And you, being a white Irishman fit the racist template of kicking a black kid What a mess The ONLY way to figure it all out is to go to court The PC cops beat the shit out of the cook county officials in the news for a couple of weeks and so, they hire someone who they tell that no matter what, the evidence, your case needs to be taken to a grand jury and then you MUST get a count returned so your now, very public false accusation, can be tried in court Why? Because that is what juries do!!! They must be the deciders (as you point out) Because God knows the only way to get to the truth is to go to trial"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveJonathan 0 #2568 September 10, 2012 To win, Romney needs 61% of the white vote from a white turnout of 74%. That's a lot. In 2008, John McCain got 55% from the same turnout. "This is the last time anyone will try to do this," one Republican strategist told the National Journal. And Republican consultant Ana Navarro told the Los Angeles Times: "Where his numbers are right now, we should be pressing the panic button." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #2569 September 10, 2012 So a kid kicks in the head of your wife. The prosecutor declines to press charges because the kid is the son of a local politician to whom the prosecutor owes a favor. Want an independent evaluation of the facts, or are you happy with the prosecutor's decision?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2570 September 10, 2012 QuoteSo a kid kicks in the head of your wife. The prosecutor declines to press charges because the kid is the son of a local politician to whom the prosecutor owes a favor. Want an independent evaluation of the facts, or are you happy with the prosecutor's decision? Nice try at changing this up But I am happy with a fair investigation THAT in itself does not require a trial Good luck with your trial though Cause in your world only a trial can decide Hope you get a cheep lawyer"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #2571 September 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteSo a kid kicks in the head of your wife. The prosecutor declines to press charges because the kid is the son of a local politician to whom the prosecutor owes a favor. Want an independent evaluation of the facts, or are you happy with the prosecutor's decision? I am happy with a fair investigation Nice try at changing the scenario. Trouble is when the investigation is not SEEN to be fair.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2572 September 11, 2012 Quote Quote Quote So a kid kicks in the head of your wife. The prosecutor declines to press charges because the kid is the son of a local politician to whom the prosecutor owes a favor. Want an independent evaluation of the facts, or are you happy with the prosecutor's decision? I am happy with a fair investigation Nice try at changing the scenario. Trouble is when the investigation is not SEEN to be fair. No You said a court decides Have fun with your kid kicking trial dude"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #2573 September 11, 2012 Quote No You said a court decides Nope. I wrote that a JURY decides facts. That's why a jury is called "decider of fact". Example. Now try to recall your civics classes.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #2574 September 11, 2012 QuoteQuote No You said a court decides Nope. I wrote that a JURY decides facts. That's why a jury is called "decider of fact". Example. Now try to recall your civics classes. the routine civics class doesn't cover the problems of SLAPP suits and other weaknesses of the system very well. Barring a dramatic turn in the available evidence, there's no way a jury can convict beyond reasonable doubt, so the trial is unnecessary and unfair to the defendant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #2575 September 11, 2012 Quote Barring a dramatic turn in the available evidence, there's no way a jury can convict beyond reasonable doubt, so the trial is unnecessary and unfair to the defendant. That, of course, is an opinion and not a fact, and not all of the evidence is available to us.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
