Florida Teen Shot

[rushmc 23]

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Local news os focusing on the decedents family lawyer interview with the decedents girlfriend who claims she was on the phone with Trayvon when he died. Apparently THAT interview was the interview that was behind the warrant and the charges. Seems there were no law enforcement or court people involved at all, ABC News was there though, and the recording has clearly been edited and is totally useless. Other than the attorney speaking, you can't understand a single word she says.
Interesting though the State Attorney Special Investigator flew her on a state plane numerous times to Jacksonville.
Something is starting to smell on the State side of the case.
TOTAL manipulation of the case for the media and the public.
Apparently it has worked so far.

It is going to boil down to, are they (the state) going to get away with this

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 801]

I think so too.
Given the evidence at the time, the statements by all involved...he should never have been charged in the first place.
I also expect a pile of lawsuits when this starts sorting out.
They started with one against NBC yesterday.

[GeorgiaDon 362]

Just wanted to remind people that a kid went out to get some candy and iced tea and ended up dead. Nothing the state does or screws up will undo that. You should be able to walk to the store and back without being targeted, hassled, and ultimately killed because someone thinks you look like you "don't belong".

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rushmc 23]

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Just wanted to remind people that a kid went out to get some candy and iced tea and ended up dead. Nothing the state does or screws up will undo that. You should be able to walk to the store and back without being targeted, hassled, and ultimately killed because someone thinks you look like you "don't belong".

Don

The kid turned and attacked someone

He paid a terrible price

Reminding completed

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[RonD1120 62]

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Just wanted to remind people that a kid went out to get some candy and iced tea and ended up dead. Nothing the state does or screws up will undo that. You should be able to walk to the store and back without being targeted, hassled, and ultimately killed because someone thinks you look like you "don't belong".

Don

The kid turned and attacked someone

He paid a terrible price

Reminding completed

+1

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[GeorgiaDon 362]

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Just wanted to remind people that a kid went out to get some candy and iced tea and ended up dead. Nothing the state does or screws up will undo that. You should be able to walk to the store and back without being targeted, hassled, and ultimately killed because someone thinks you look like you "don't belong".

Don

The kid turned and attacked someone

Not spontaneously. Zimmerman admits he approached and challenged the kid.

I'm pretty sure none of us were there at the time, although to read this thread you'd think there was a boogie going on from the number of skydivers who are sure they know exactly what happened.

Not surprisingly, people's guesses (by now crystallized into "facts" etched in granite) about what happened are consistent with their general view of the world. Some are all convinced that Mr Zimmerman was quietly minding his own business, perhaps knitting mittens for orphans, when out of the blue he was attacked by a deranged drugged-up Martin. Maybe people are thinking "there but for the grace of God go I", and fear the notion that they might not automatically get the benefit of the doubt should they also find themselves in a situation where they decide to resort to lethal force. Others put themselves in the position of Martin, minding their own business while walking home, only to be confronted and ultimately killed by an overzealous wannabee-cop.

What, exactly, happened that night? None of us know. We know Zimmerman called 911, and indicated he had exited his truck and was following a "suspicious person" (Martin). He was told "we don't need you to do that", but we don't know exactly what he did after that point. Shortly thereafter, witnesses saw the two of them in a fight on the ground, with Martin on top, heard a gunshot, and Martin was dead. We don't know how the two came into physical contact, who first grabbed/punched who, any of it. Hopefully the "investigation" and trial (if it gets to that point) will sort it out, but I highly doubt it.

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He paid a terrible price
Reminding completed

What exactly are we being reminded of? That we must submit to "authority"? If you are walking along and some unidentified stranger challenges you and demands to know who you are and what you are doing, then you must acquiesce? If you don't then they can shoot you?

"Land of the Free" indeed.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[billvon 2,991]

>The kid turned and attacked someone
>He paid a terrible price
>Reminding completed

And Zimmerman shot an unarmed kid that he pursued against advice
He's paying a terrible price
Reminder complete.

[rushmc 23]

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>The kid turned and attacked someone
>He paid a terrible price
>Reminding completed

And Zimmerman shot an unarmed kid that he pursued against advice
He's paying a terrible price
Reminder complete.

Re written history complete

Zimmeraman did not pursue

He returned to his vehicle

Martin pursued
History repaired

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Just wanted to remind people that a kid went out to get some candy and iced tea and ended up dead. Nothing the state does or screws up will undo that. You should be able to walk to the store and back without being targeted, hassled, and ultimately killed because someone thinks you look like you "don't belong".

Don

The kid turned and attacked someone

Not spontaneously. Zimmerman admits he approached and challenged the kid.

I'm pretty sure none of us were there at the time, although to read this thread you'd think there was a boogie going on from the number of skydivers who are sure they know exactly what happened.

Not surprisingly, people's guesses (by now crystallized into "facts" etched in granite) about what happened are consistent with their general view of the world. Some are all convinced that Mr Zimmerman was quietly minding his own business, perhaps knitting mittens for orphans, when out of the blue he was attacked by a deranged drugged-up Martin. Maybe people are thinking "there but for the grace of God go I", and fear the notion that they might not automatically get the benefit of the doubt should they also find themselves in a situation where they decide to resort to lethal force. Others put themselves in the position of Martin, minding their own business while walking home, only to be confronted and ultimately killed by an overzealous wannabee-cop.

What, exactly, happened that night? None of us know. We know Zimmerman called 911, and indicated he had exited his truck and was following a "suspicious person" (Martin). He was told "we don't need you to do that", but we don't know exactly what he did after that point. Shortly thereafter, witnesses saw the two of them in a fight on the ground, with Martin on top, heard a gunshot, and Martin was dead. We don't know how the two came into physical contact, who first grabbed/punched who, any of it. Hopefully the "investigation" and trial (if it gets to that point) will sort it out, but I highly doubt it.

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He paid a terrible price
Reminding completed

What exactly are we being reminded of? That we must submit to "authority"? If you are walking along and some unidentified stranger challenges you and demands to know who you are and what you are doing, then you must acquiesce? If you don't then they can shoot you?

"Land of the Free" indeed.

Don

Martin need only have continued home and he would still be alive

But he decided to attck someone

He is dead because of his own actions

Nothing more

And let us not forget WHY he was in that area to begin with

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Zimmeraman did not pursue

He returned to his vehicle

Wouldn't he have had to pursue to be able to "return" to his vehicle?

[rushmc 23]

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Zimmeraman did not pursue

He returned to his vehicle

Wouldn't he have had to pursue to be able to "return" to his vehicle?

that is a nice twist

Marin attacked Zimmerman

He is dead because of choices he (TV) made

No where else to place blame


And now those like you, would support gov officials trying to save face because they reactied to those like you who had knee jerk reactions to a month old twisted news story

Makes a person proud

Dont you think?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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that is a nice twist

Marin attacked Zimmerman

He is dead because of choices he (TV) made

No where else to place blame

I am not twisting or laying blame.

I am asking a simple question based on your statement that he was just returning to his vehicle.

What was he doing when he left his vehicle? According to you he was not pursuing...so what was he doing?

[rushmc 23]

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that is a nice twist

Marin attacked Zimmerman

He is dead because of choices he (TV) made

No where else to place blame

I am not twisting or laying blame.

I am asking a simple question based on your statement that he was just returning to his vehicle.

What was he doing when he left his vehicle? According to you he was not pursuing...so what was he doing?

Play a word game if you want
We know he was watching him. He said as much
Pursue insinuates going after
That does not seem to be the case



But when the attack happened Zimmerman was walking away from Martin

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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Just wanted to remind people that a kid went out to get some candy and iced tea and ended up dead. Nothing the state does or screws up will undo that. You should be able to walk to the store and back without being targeted, hassled, and ultimately killed because someone thinks you look like you "don't belong".

We have 2600 messages in this thread due to the fact that it was hardly as simple as you put it. Not sure why you felt the need to stir the shit pot up again with this, and then have the nerve to later say that people are being one sided with presumed facts.

One can easily ignore the actual event and instead be troubled by the apparent misconduct by the prosecution.

[GeorgiaDon 362]

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Martin need only have continued home and he would still be alive

But he decided to attck someone

He is dead because of his own actions

What boogie was that? Seems strange to hold a boogie in a townhouse complex at night, but whatever.

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***

And let us not forget WHY he was in that area to begin with

[rushmc 23]

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Martin need only have continued home and he would still be alive

But he decided to attck someone

He is dead because of his own actions

What boogie was that? Seems strange to hold a boogie in a townhouse complex at night, but whatever.

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***

And let us not forget WHY he was in that area to begin with

Please, do remind me of what information Zimmerman would have been privy to, before deciding to target Martin as "suspicious", that justified shooting and killing him? I mean, surely you are not suggesting that finding out well after the fact that someone was suspended from school is reason to kill them?

Don

[Southern_Man 0]

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And let us not forget WHY he was in that area to begin with

You mean to buy skittles?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[rushmc 23]

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And let us not forget WHY he was in that area to begin with

You mean to buy skittles?

So now we go to what he was doing before he attacked Zimmerman?

You guys are all over the place

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Southern_Man 0]

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And let us not forget WHY he was in that area to begin with

You mean to buy skittles?

So now we go to what he was doing before he attacked Zimmerman?

You guys are all over the place

before Zimmeman stalked him you mean?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[rushmc 23]

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And let us not forget WHY he was in that area to begin with

You mean to buy skittles?

So now we go to what he was doing before he attacked Zimmerman?

You guys are all over the place

before Zimmeman stalked him you mean?

He was stalking TM when Martin attacked him?

Please provide the link that indicates that

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GeorgiaDon 362]

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One can easily ignore the actual event and instead be troubled by the apparent misconduct by the prosecution.

Indeed, one can and should be troubled.

" You should be able to walk to the store and back without being targeted, hassled, and ultimately killed because someone thinks you look like you "don't belong"."
Do you disagree with this statement?

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We have 2600 messages in this thread due to the fact that it was hardly as simple as you put it.

Well about 2590 of those messages are nothing but speculation. Take Marc's last few posts as typical examples if you will.

I for one do not know how "simple" or how "complicated" the chain of events actually was, as I was not there (unlike others, or so I gather). We know Martin went to the store, bought a few items, and was returning home. We know from the 911 call that Zimmerman decided Martin looked "suspicious" and left his truck to follow Martin. We know that some time later there was an altercation, with Zimmerman getting the worst of it, that ended up with Zimmerman shooting Martin. Between the point where Zimmerman told the 911 operator he was following Martin and a later point with the altercation already in progress, we know nothing about what transpired. Do you disagree?

In the absence of actual evidence, we can speculate about the chain of events. Some scenarios seem more plausible than others to me, others may find different scenarios plausible, based on our relative experiences. I would hope that an objective investigation would shed light on the matter (though at this point it's hard to see that happening). Do you disagree?

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Not sure why you felt the need to stir the shit pot up again...

Because I get the sense that now it's all about "poor Zimmerman" and that the spin machine has relegated Martin to a drug-addled homicidal maniac. Some perspective is called for.

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...and then have the nerve to later say that people are being one sided with presumed facts.

I think I have been clear that I do not know know the exact sequence of events that transpired to bring Martin and Zimmerman into physical contact. Others here assert that they do know this.

This incident does bother me on a number of levels. It bothers me to think that I could be minding my own business, doing something I have every right to do in a public area (like walking home), be challenged by some wannabee-cop, and if I don't respond to their liking end up dead. It bothers me that the survivor gets to write the history, and the dead guy gets dragged through the mud to retroactively justify the killing. The racial overtones of the case, which come from both sides, bother me. It bothers me that the opportunity for any "justice" in this case has been squandered, likely in the first hours after the killing when the opportunity to look for evidence to verify (or otherwise) Zimmerman's story was passed by. Every single thing about this case pisses me off.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rushmc 23]

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One can easily ignore the actual event and instead be troubled by the apparent misconduct by the prosecution.

Indeed, one can and should be troubled.

" You should be able to walk to the store and back without being targeted, hassled, and ultimately killed because someone thinks you look like you "don't belong"."
Do you disagree with this statement?

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We have 2600 messages in this thread due to the fact that it was hardly as simple as you put it.

Well about 2590 of those messages are nothing but speculation. Take Marc's last few posts as typical examples if you will.

I for one do not know how "simple" or how "complicated" the chain of events actually was, as I was not there (unlike others, or so I gather). We know Martin went to the store, bought a few items, and was returning home. We know from the 911 call that Zimmerman decided Martin looked "suspicious" and left his truck to follow Martin. We know that some time later there was an altercation, with Zimmerman getting the worst of it, that ended up with Zimmerman shooting Martin. Between the point where Zimmerman told the 911 operator he was following Martin and a later point with the altercation already in progress, we know nothing about what transpired. Do you disagree?

In the absence of actual evidence, we can speculate about the chain of events. Some scenarios seem more plausible than others to me, others may find different scenarios plausible, based on our relative experiences. I would hope that an objective investigation would shed light on the matter (though at this point it's hard to see that happening). Do you disagree?

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Not sure why you felt the need to stir the shit pot up again...

Because I get the sense that now it's all about "poor Zimmerman" and that the spin machine has relegated Martin to a drug-addled homicidal maniac. Some perspective is called for.

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...and then have the nerve to later say that people are being one sided with presumed facts.

I think I have been clear that I do not know know the exact sequence of events that transpired to bring Martin and Zimmerman into physical contact. Others here assert that they do know this.

This incident does bother me on a number of levels. It bothers me to think that I could be minding my own business, doing something I have every right to do in a public area (like walking home), be challenged by some wannabee-cop, and if I don't respond to their liking end up dead. It bothers me that the survivor gets to write the history, and the dead guy gets dragged through the mud to retroactively justify the killing. The racial overtones of the case, which come from both sides, bother me. It bothers me that the opportunity for any "justice" in this case has been squandered, likely in the first hours after the killing when the opportunity to look for evidence to verify (or otherwise) Zimmerman's story was passed by. Every single thing about this case pisses me off.

Don

According to reports, Zimmerman NEVER talked to Martin while he was watching him

He lost site of him so he returned to his vehicle

Marting then approached him and attacked him

The eveidence we have seen fully supports Zimmermans account of the story

All the the bs happened a month AFTER the incident

Then is was improperly reported to be a racial incident. We now are fairly sure this is not the case either

And there are very troubling things about this case
The least of which is those who wish to condem Zimmerman at all costs

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GeorgiaDon 362]

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He was with his dad
Normally with his mother

Why was he at his dads?

He had been suspended from school

And of course you would spin the story to the suspension as being a reason to kill him

It was you who brought up the question of why he (Martin) was in that area. Did you have a point, other than that he was suspended from school (which you bring up again here)?

Zimmerman claims (and I believe him) that he did not recognize or know Martin. If so, he could not have known that Martin had been suspended from school, and that information cannot be used to justify Zimmerman's suspicion of Martin, Zimmerman following Martin, or Zimmerman shooting Martin. Being suspended from school in no way proves or even implies a propensity to violence. It is irrelevant.

So, again, why did you raise the issue of why Martin was in that neighborhood?

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I had no idea you are so intolerant

Generally, yes, I am intolerant of the idea that a kid (or anybody) can walk to the store and end up dead.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[billvon 2,991]

>Zimmeraman did not pursue

Hmm, even Zimmerman disagrees with that.

Fortunately, a court will now decide.

[rushmc 23]

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He was with his dad
Normally with his mother

Why was he at his dads?

He had been suspended from school

And of course you would spin the story to the suspension as being a reason to kill him

It was you who brought up the question of why he (Martin) was in that area. Did you have a point, other than that he was suspended from school (which you bring up again here)?

Zimmerman claims (and I believe him) that he did not recognize or know Martin. If so, he could not have known that Martin had been suspended from school, and that information cannot be used to justify Zimmerman's suspicion of Martin, Zimmerman following Martin, or Zimmerman shooting Martin. Being suspended from school in no way proves or even implies a propensity to violence. It is irrelevant.

So, again, why did you raise the issue of why Martin was in that neighborhood?

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I had no idea you are so intolerant

Generally, yes, I am intolerant of the idea that a kid (or anybody) can walk to the store and end up dead.

Don

The only reason I brought is up is because the trend of the supporters seem to be that of Martin being a saint and is dead purely because of the act of another

Nothing could be further from the truth

As for me
I am intolerant of those who would use violence on somebody they dont like and expect not to get a reaction or be held acountable for your own actions

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln