rushmc 23
Quote
And let us not forget WHY he was in that area to begin with
You mean to buy skittles?
"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"
rushmc 23
QuoteQuote
And let us not forget WHY he was in that area to begin with
You mean to buy skittles?
So now we go to what he was doing before he attacked Zimmerman?
You guys are all over the place
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
QuoteQuoteQuote
And let us not forget WHY he was in that area to begin with
You mean to buy skittles?
So now we go to what he was doing before he attacked Zimmerman?
You guys are all over the place
before Zimmeman stalked him you mean?
"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
And let us not forget WHY he was in that area to begin with
You mean to buy skittles?
So now we go to what he was doing before he attacked Zimmerman?
You guys are all over the place
before Zimmeman stalked him you mean?
He was stalking TM when Martin attacked him?
Please provide the link that indicates that
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
GeorgiaDon 362
Indeed, one can and should be troubled.QuoteOne can easily ignore the actual event and instead be troubled by the apparent misconduct by the prosecution.
" You should be able to walk to the store and back without being targeted, hassled, and ultimately killed because someone thinks you look like you "don't belong"."
Do you disagree with this statement?
Well about 2590 of those messages are nothing but speculation. Take Marc's last few posts as typical examples if you will.QuoteWe have 2600 messages in this thread due to the fact that it was hardly as simple as you put it.
I for one do not know how "simple" or how "complicated" the chain of events actually was, as I was not there (unlike others, or so I gather). We know Martin went to the store, bought a few items, and was returning home. We know from the 911 call that Zimmerman decided Martin looked "suspicious" and left his truck to follow Martin. We know that some time later there was an altercation, with Zimmerman getting the worst of it, that ended up with Zimmerman shooting Martin. Between the point where Zimmerman told the 911 operator he was following Martin and a later point with the altercation already in progress, we know nothing about what transpired. Do you disagree?
In the absence of actual evidence, we can speculate about the chain of events. Some scenarios seem more plausible than others to me, others may find different scenarios plausible, based on our relative experiences. I would hope that an objective investigation would shed light on the matter (though at this point it's hard to see that happening). Do you disagree?
Because I get the sense that now it's all about "poor Zimmerman" and that the spin machine has relegated Martin to a drug-addled homicidal maniac. Some perspective is called for.QuoteNot sure why you felt the need to stir the shit pot up again...
I think I have been clear that I do not know know the exact sequence of events that transpired to bring Martin and Zimmerman into physical contact. Others here assert that they do know this.Quote...and then have the nerve to later say that people are being one sided with presumed facts.
This incident does bother me on a number of levels. It bothers me to think that I could be minding my own business, doing something I have every right to do in a public area (like walking home), be challenged by some wannabee-cop, and if I don't respond to their liking end up dead. It bothers me that the survivor gets to write the history, and the dead guy gets dragged through the mud to retroactively justify the killing. The racial overtones of the case, which come from both sides, bother me. It bothers me that the opportunity for any "justice" in this case has been squandered, likely in the first hours after the killing when the opportunity to look for evidence to verify (or otherwise) Zimmerman's story was passed by. Every single thing about this case pisses me off.
Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
rushmc 23
QuoteIndeed, one can and should be troubled.QuoteOne can easily ignore the actual event and instead be troubled by the apparent misconduct by the prosecution.
" You should be able to walk to the store and back without being targeted, hassled, and ultimately killed because someone thinks you look like you "don't belong"."
Do you disagree with this statement?Well about 2590 of those messages are nothing but speculation. Take Marc's last few posts as typical examples if you will.QuoteWe have 2600 messages in this thread due to the fact that it was hardly as simple as you put it.
I for one do not know how "simple" or how "complicated" the chain of events actually was, as I was not there (unlike others, or so I gather). We know Martin went to the store, bought a few items, and was returning home. We know from the 911 call that Zimmerman decided Martin looked "suspicious" and left his truck to follow Martin. We know that some time later there was an altercation, with Zimmerman getting the worst of it, that ended up with Zimmerman shooting Martin. Between the point where Zimmerman told the 911 operator he was following Martin and a later point with the altercation already in progress, we know nothing about what transpired. Do you disagree?
In the absence of actual evidence, we can speculate about the chain of events. Some scenarios seem more plausible than others to me, others may find different scenarios plausible, based on our relative experiences. I would hope that an objective investigation would shed light on the matter (though at this point it's hard to see that happening). Do you disagree?Because I get the sense that now it's all about "poor Zimmerman" and that the spin machine has relegated Martin to a drug-addled homicidal maniac. Some perspective is called for.QuoteNot sure why you felt the need to stir the shit pot up again...
I think I have been clear that I do not know know the exact sequence of events that transpired to bring Martin and Zimmerman into physical contact. Others here assert that they do know this.Quote...and then have the nerve to later say that people are being one sided with presumed facts.
This incident does bother me on a number of levels. It bothers me to think that I could be minding my own business, doing something I have every right to do in a public area (like walking home), be challenged by some wannabee-cop, and if I don't respond to their liking end up dead. It bothers me that the survivor gets to write the history, and the dead guy gets dragged through the mud to retroactively justify the killing. The racial overtones of the case, which come from both sides, bother me. It bothers me that the opportunity for any "justice" in this case has been squandered, likely in the first hours after the killing when the opportunity to look for evidence to verify (or otherwise) Zimmerman's story was passed by. Every single thing about this case pisses me off.
Don
According to reports, Zimmerman NEVER talked to Martin while he was watching him
He lost site of him so he returned to his vehicle
Marting then approached him and attacked him
The eveidence we have seen fully supports Zimmermans account of the story
All the the bs happened a month AFTER the incident
Then is was improperly reported to be a racial incident. We now are fairly sure this is not the case either
And there are very troubling things about this case
The least of which is those who wish to condem Zimmerman at all costs
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
GeorgiaDon 362
It was you who brought up the question of why he (Martin) was in that area. Did you have a point, other than that he was suspended from school (which you bring up again here)?QuoteHe was with his dad
Normally with his mother
Why was he at his dads?
He had been suspended from school
And of course you would spin the story to the suspension as being a reason to kill him
Zimmerman claims (and I believe him) that he did not recognize or know Martin. If so, he could not have known that Martin had been suspended from school, and that information cannot be used to justify Zimmerman's suspicion of Martin, Zimmerman following Martin, or Zimmerman shooting Martin. Being suspended from school in no way proves or even implies a propensity to violence. It is irrelevant.
So, again, why did you raise the issue of why Martin was in that neighborhood?
Generally, yes, I am intolerant of the idea that a kid (or anybody) can walk to the store and end up dead.Quote
I had no idea you are so intolerant
Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
billvon 2,992
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>Zimmeraman did not pursue
Hmm, even Zimmerman disagrees with that.
Fortunately, a court will now decide.
Hmm, even Zimmerman disagrees with that.
Fortunately, a court will now decide.
rushmc 23
QuoteIt was you who brought up the question of why he (Martin) was in that area. Did you have a point, other than that he was suspended from school (which you bring up again here)?QuoteHe was with his dad
Normally with his mother
Why was he at his dads?
He had been suspended from school
And of course you would spin the story to the suspension as being a reason to kill him
Zimmerman claims (and I believe him) that he did not recognize or know Martin. If so, he could not have known that Martin had been suspended from school, and that information cannot be used to justify Zimmerman's suspicion of Martin, Zimmerman following Martin, or Zimmerman shooting Martin. Being suspended from school in no way proves or even implies a propensity to violence. It is irrelevant.
So, again, why did you raise the issue of why Martin was in that neighborhood?Generally, yes, I am intolerant of the idea that a kid (or anybody) can walk to the store and end up dead.Quote
I had no idea you are so intolerant
Don
The only reason I brought is up is because the trend of the supporters seem to be that of Martin being a saint and is dead purely because of the act of another
Nothing could be further from the truth
As for me
I am intolerant of those who would use violence on somebody they dont like and expect not to get a reaction or be held acountable for your own actions
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Don
He was with his dad
Normally with his mother
Why was he at his dads?
He had been suspended from school
And of course you would spin the story to the suspension as being a reason to kill him
I had no idea you are so intolerant
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln