Florida Teen Shot

[mirage62 0]

Quote

Martin was doing nothing illegal

Don neither was GZ. As far as GZ "deciding he was up to no good" thats not illegal either.

Here on DZ and around the country the verdict didn't seem to do anything. The people spoke. Does it clear GZ? Only if you were a GZ supporter......

What drives me nuts is the manner that the press played this. GZ - white. TM - cute little 12 yr and we the people just ate it up.

Another point for my DZ friends. At one time all this was this should go to trail. (Where's Kallend?) it went to trail and GZ was found not guilty.

The entire thing is just gin up to sell press.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[airtwardo 7]

mirage62

Quote

Martin was doing nothing illegal

Don neither was GZ. As far as GZ "deciding he was up to no good" thats not illegal either.

Here on DZ and around the country the verdict didn't seem to do anything. The people spoke. Does it clear GZ? Only if you were a GZ supporter......

What drives me nuts is the manner that the press played this. GZ - white. TM - cute little 12 yr and we the people just ate it up.

Another point for my DZ friends. At one time all this was this should go to trail. (Where's Kallend?) it went to trail and GZ was found not guilty.

The entire thing is just gin up to sell press.

This!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[skypuppy 1]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

Since when does being a thug and assulting a man make you deserving of honor? ...

This case has shown that a gun was used in self-defense.

This case was about reasonable doubt. The prosecution's theory was that Zimmerman initiated the fight, the defense's theory was that Martin started it. If the jurors were not able to agree with the prosecution, beyond a reasonable doubt, they were obligated to return a verdict of "not guilty". That the prosecution was not able to prove their theory beyond a reasonable doubt does not automatically make the defense theory true.

Quote

Oh wait, we can just deny the evidence and assume he was a cute little boy who did no harm and was killed because of his fucking skin color.

Martin was doing nothing illegal when Zimmerman decided he was up to no good. He was walking on a sidewalk in a neighborhood he had every right to be in, while talking on a cell phone. The defense certainly did not even try to prove that Martin was committing a crime when Zimmerman profiled him as a criminal. Zimmerman certainly did not know who Martin was at that point, and knew nothing about him personally. On what basis did he decide Martin was worthy of suspicion? Do you think he would have called the police and then followed Martin, had Martin been wearing dress pants, a white shirt, and a tie like a Mormon missionary?

Black males get profiled a million times every day in this country. OCHUTE's post is a prime example. Sometimes that leads to confrontations. It's interesting that Zimmerman has a right to self defense, but apparently Martin did not. It is a tragedy that young black males are presumed to be thugs, by OCHUTE, by you, and by millions of others. It is a tragedy that so many people die for no good reason.

I heard one commentator ask if he now has to dress his sons in a tuxedo before he lets them go to the store. If they are confronted by an unknown stranger, are they obligated to meekly acquiesce to every demand? I for one have no idea how to answer his questions.

Don

Zimmerman was doing nothing illegal when Martin decided to double back, sucker punch him, and start banging his head on the pavement. Following someone is not illegal, unless serial 'stalking' or if it is perhaps 'menacing', but Z spent much of the time follwoing TM talking on the phone, hardly what one would consider 'menacing'.

Even the dispatcher did not tell Z not to follow, because following is not illegal. He did tell him 'we don't need you to do that'; but that is hardly ordering him not to follow.

There is only one person to blame in this situation, TM. (well, actually maybe you could blame his parents as well, but certainly not GZ, who was in his own community and was attacked without provocation).

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[linebckr83 3]

You're kidding right? You admitted upthread that you didn't watch the trial right? No wonder you continue arguing the same stupid points.

There is no proof that Zimmerman did anything to break a single law that night. NOT ONE. Following isn't illegal. Keeping an eye on someone isn't illegal. Carrying his gun wasn't illegal. Shooting someone in self defense isn't illegal. Assaulting a man IS illegal and is grounds to get your ass shot if he is carrying. Treyvon was gone, Zimmerman lost him. 4 minutes later Treyvon doubled back and punched him in the face. If you educated yourself on the case and evidence you could make that connection on your own. The jury did. Your understanding of the law is asinine.

Calling it profiling all you want. Turns out he was right in this case. The kid was a thug; beginning involvements in illegal firearms transactions, a drug user and suspected distributor, and had a history of fighting. He wanted to be a thug that night and start a fight, and look what happened. You honestly say he died for no good reason? Hey, don't attack another person and you wont get shot.

They both had a right to self defense. Please tell me what TM was defending himself from. You do not have a right to self defense when you start beating the shit out of someone unexpectedly.

To all those people like the commentator who you referred to, who are saying "how do I explain this case to my children?" Here's how I would explain it. If you feel like something is wrong, call the cops and go home. Don't sneak up and punch him in the face and bash his head on the concrete. Sounds like simple fucking common sense, but as you see, it's not so common.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[Andy9o8 2]

Jim, I'm tagging this comment as a "reply" to you because I respect your clear head; but it's really directed to everyone.

As I intimated up-thread, this thread has gone so far beyond the absurd, the way so many people here (even ignoring the couple of racist pigs) are firmly declaring either that A was blameless and B was doing evil, or vice-versa. This is a tragedy bred of two guys, each - that's right, each - too eager to confront, getting themselves into the ultimate dick-swinging contest. Problem was, you don't bring a swinging dick to a gunfight; and now one guy is dead, the other guy's life is ruined, and two families are ravaged.

To my fellow males: We all know the kind of shit men really hate the most about women, right? Well, this - this kind of incident here - is exactly the kind of shit that women collectively hate the most about men. As a gender, we should look at this incident and hang our heads in collective shame.

[normiss 800]

All they had to do was talk.
Very, very sad incident.

[skypuppy 1]

Andy9o8

Jim, I'm tagging this comment as a "reply" to you because I respect your clear head; but it's really directed to everyone.

As I intimated up-thread, this thread has gone so far beyond the absurd, the way so many people here (even ignoring the couple of racist pigs) are firmly declaring either that A was blameless and B was doing evil, or vice-versa. This is a tragedy bred of two guys, each - that's right, each - too eager to confront, getting themselves into the ultimate dick-swinging contest. Problem was, you don't bring a swinging dick to a gunfight; and now one guy is dead, the other guy's life is ruined, and two families are ravaged.

To my fellow males: We all know the kind of shit men really hate the most about women, right? Well, this - this kind of incident here - is exactly the kind of shit that women collectively hate the most about men. As a gender, we should look at this incident and hang our heads in collective shame.

So according to your logic, someone living in that community, plagued by violent home invasions and burglaries, is basically to sit back and do nothing, other than perhaps call the cops, who may not show up for an hour, while people's belongings or safety may be threatened?

Again, I see no reason that anything Z did should be illegal or considered as provocation in and of itself. Maybe he could have stayed in his car, but that's his choice, it wasn't illegal not to.

He said that he thought the person was on drugs - well, it turned out the person was on drugs. He thought the person was up to no good - well, the person doubled back, sucker punched him and started whacking his head on the pavement.

GZ may well wish he hadn't gotten out of his car that day, but that's certainly not because a single thing he did was 'wrong'...

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[kelpdiver 2]

Andy9o8

To my fellow males: We all know the kind of shit men really hate the most about women, right? Well, this - this kind of incident here - is exactly the kind of shit that women collectively hate the most about men. As a gender, we should look at this incident and hang our heads in collective shame.

*this* presumes a hell of a lot of evidence that has not been presented, Counselor.

[Andy9o8 2]

kelpdiver

***
To my fellow males: We all know the kind of shit men really hate the most about women, right? Well, this - this kind of incident here - is exactly the kind of shit that women collectively hate the most about men. As a gender, we should look at this incident and hang our heads in collective shame.

*this* presumes a hell of a lot of evidence that has not been presented, Counselor.

AS you wish. I stand by my post.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Andy9o8

Jim, I'm tagging this comment as a "reply" to you because I respect your clear head; but it's really directed to everyone.

As I intimated up-thread, this thread has gone so far beyond the absurd, the way so many people here (even ignoring the couple of racist pigs) are firmly declaring either that A was blameless and B was doing evil, or vice-versa. This is a tragedy bred of two guys, each - that's right, each - too eager to confront, getting themselves into the ultimate dick-swinging contest. Problem was, you don't bring a swinging dick to a gunfight; and now one guy is dead, the other guy's life is ruined, and two families are ravaged.

To my fellow males: We all know the kind of shit men really hate the most about women, right? Well, this - this kind of incident here - is exactly the kind of shit that women collectively hate the most about men. As a gender, we should look at this incident and hang our heads in collective shame.

+1

[Skyrad 0]

It sounds like a racist shot a kid and got away with it. No real suprise seeing as it happened where it did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I6OuP-wiiQg#at=53

There again, I didn't sit through the trail so I don't really know either way. But it does sound well dodgy.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Rick 67]

Skyrad

It sounds like a racist shot a kid and got away with it. No real suprise seeing as it happened where it did.

and how well do you know Sanford fl.???

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[normiss 800]

"No real suprise seeing as it happened where it did."

Can you explain that a bit?

[b1jercat 0]

lol, really .

jerry

[Rick 67]

b1jercat

lol, really .

jerry

seems like a reasonable request

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[rushmc 23]

Skyrad

It sounds like a racist shot a kid and got away with it. No real suprise seeing as it happened where it did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I6OuP-wiiQg#at=53

There again, I didn't sit through the trail so I don't really know either way. But it does sound well dodgy.

A racist?
He dated and took to prom a black girl
He helped black kids with classes
He lived with blacks

The only thing dodgy here is your post

Oh

The FBI also determined race was not factor

Get over it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[skypuppy 1]

Skyrad

It sounds like a racist shot a kid and got away with it. No real suprise seeing as it happened where it did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I6OuP-wiiQg#at=53

There again, I didn't sit through the trail so I don't really know either way. But it does sound well dodgy.

I couldn't even listen to that. That guy obviously didn't have a clue what the case was about. The pictures he showed of Trayvon are about 5 years old, while calling him a 'kid'.

Virtually every thing that GZ claimed has been born out by the evidence in the investigation. The witnesses the PROSECUTION called, ended up being for the defences benefit.

This case never should have gone to trial. That's why you have grand juries, they would have told them not to bother. The rumor is that there are legal proceedings in the offing against the 'special prosecutor' who decided to take this case to trial over 'prosecutorial abnormalities' and failure to disclose exculpatory evidence.

This guy you linked needs to do some more investigating before spouting off as if he knows what he's talking about...

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[kelpdiver 2]

Andy9o8

AS you wish. I stand by my post.

As you wish. As a man, I'm not going to apologize for another man that called the police for suspicion of another person walking about the neighborhood, nor am I going to apologize for the man with a broken nose shooting his assailant.

I'd feel far greater shame if I ignored the situation and one of my neighbors was robbed or worse. It's the un-man (pick your phrasing) that just lets shit happen. It's the sheep that just let themselves get beaten to death, relying on the presumed mercy of their attacker.

And for those that would never do nothing at all and rely on their government to take care of them, I have only contempt.

[skypuppy 1]

normiss

"No real suprise seeing as it happened where it did."

Can you explain that a bit?

He's profiling you....

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[ryoder 1,590]

skypuppy

***It sounds like a racist shot a kid and got away with it. No real suprise seeing as it happened where it did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I6OuP-wiiQg#at=53

There again, I didn't sit through the trail so I don't really know either way. But it does sound well dodgy.

I couldn't even listen to that. That guy obviously didn't have a clue what the case was about. The pictures he showed of Trayvon are about 5 years old, while calling him a 'kid'.


Yes, that "reporter" had a lot of his "facts" wrong, but the worst of it was comparing Trayvon to Dubya. That was just cruel.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[devildog 0]

Skyrad

It sounds like a racist shot a kid and got away with it. No real suprise seeing as it happened where it did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I6OuP-wiiQg#at=53

There again, I didn't sit through the trail so I don't really know either way. But it does sound well dodgy.

lol so you didn't sit through the trial and hold an opinion that completely contradicts every piece of evidence and an FBI investigation that says otherwise.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[mirage62 0]

Yep you lost me in the first 30 seconds when they used the same fucked up picture of TM.

I'm sure it makes you feel like your argument is sound....but to me it just shows how sucked in people have become.

WHY in the fuck would they STILL be using that picture if not to BS you man??? Better yet WHY would you still listen to anyone that uses that picture??

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[ryoder 1,590]

mirage62

Yep you lost me in the first 30 seconds when they used the same fucked up picture of TM.

I'm sure it makes you feel like your argument is sound....but to me it just shows how sucked in people have become.

WHY in the fuck would they STILL be using that picture if not to BS you man??? Better yet WHY would you still listen to anyone that uses that picture??

I would have no problem with them using that pic of TM at age 12 ... *if* they also used a pic of GZ at age 12.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[davjohns 1]

It took long enough, but here are last images of TM. Not what the media portrayed. Still think they were objective on this case? Think they are now?

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/07/65465-the-trayvon-martin-picture-the-mainstream-media-dont-want-you-to-see/

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[turtlespeed 220]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

Since when does being a thug and assulting a man make you deserving of honor? ...

This case has shown that a gun was used in self-defense.

This case was about reasonable doubt. The prosecution's theory was that Zimmerman initiated the fight, the defense's theory was that Martin started it. If the jurors were not able to agree with the prosecution, beyond a reasonable doubt, they were obligated to return a verdict of "not guilty". That the prosecution was not able to prove their theory beyond a reasonable doubt does not automatically make the defense theory true.

Quote

Oh wait, we can just deny the evidence and assume he was a cute little boy who did no harm and was killed because of his fucking skin color.

Martin was doing nothing illegal when Zimmerman decided he was up to no good. He was walking on a sidewalk in a neighborhood he had every right to be in, while talking on a cell phone. The defense certainly did not even try to prove that Martin was committing a crime when Zimmerman profiled him as a criminal. Zimmerman certainly did not know who Martin was at that point, and knew nothing about him personally. On what basis did he decide Martin was worthy of suspicion? Do you think he would have called the police and then followed Martin, had Martin been wearing dress pants, a white shirt, and a tie like a Mormon missionary?

Black males get profiled a million times every day in this country. OCHUTE's post is a prime example. Sometimes that leads to confrontations. It's interesting that Zimmerman has a right to self defense, but apparently Martin did not. It is a tragedy that young black males are presumed to be thugs, by OCHUTE, by you, and by millions of others. It is a tragedy that so many people die for no good reason.

I heard one commentator ask if he now has to dress his sons in a tuxedo before he lets them go to the store. If they are confronted by an unknown stranger, are they obligated to meekly acquiesce to every demand? I for one have no idea how to answer his questions.

Don

Your statements lack credibility for at least the reason that if TM was so threatened and in need of self defence, why did he not continue walking home.

His actions are not consistent with a 17yo scared because someone was following him.

His actions ARE consistent with a thug with a chip on his shoulder and an anger/violence problem.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun