Florida Teen Shot

[ryoder 1,590]

davjohns

It took long enough, but here are last images of TM. Not what the media portrayed. Still think they were objective on this case? Think they are now?

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/07/65465-the-trayvon-martin-picture-the-mainstream-media-dont-want-you-to-see/

Darn. I was hoping they would show him exit/enter at the door where there would be one of those height scales on the door frame to get a good measurement of his height.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[wayneflorida 0]

I thought it was brilliant when O'Mara brought in the chunk of concrete sidewalk during closing statement.

[DanG 1]

Quote

His actions ARE consistent with a thug with a chip on his shoulder and an anger/violence problem.

Well, the actions that Zimmerman claimed he took.

We still don't know how the fight started, and we probably never will. The fact that Martin was winning when Zimmerman fired his fatal shot seems pretty clear, but the only evidence that Martin started the fight are Zimmerman's statements.

For the record, I think Zimmerman should have been tried, and I think he should have been acquitted. Which is exactly what happened.

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

wayneflorida

I thought it was brilliant when O'Mara brought in the chunk of concrete sidewalk during closing statement.

As was the 4 minute wait demo

It showed the jury if TM was really scared, he could have been at his house in about a minute
Instead, he attacked GZ 4 minutes later
All of this was determined by the location and the phone calls

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[livendive 8]

DanG

Quote

His actions ARE consistent with a thug with a chip on his shoulder and an anger/violence problem.

Well, the actions that Zimmerman claimed he took.

We still don't know how the fight started, and we probably never will. The fact that Martin was winning when Zimmerman fired his fatal shot seems pretty clear, but the only evidence that Martin started the fight are Zimmerman's statements.

For the record, I think Zimmerman should have been tried, and I think he should have been acquitted. Which is exactly what happened.

This.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[CanuckInUSA 0]

davjohns

It took long enough, but here are last images of TM. Not what the media portrayed. Still think they were objective on this case? Think they are now?

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/07/65465-the-trayvon-martin-picture-the-mainstream-media-dont-want-you-to-see/

There is not one ounce of honesty coming from the Progressive's Consensus Mainstream Media. The way they portray Martin as an innocent young teenager is no different with how they portrayed Canadian born Jihadist Omar Khadr (the man who confessed to killing US medic Christopher Speer in Afghanistan).

Picture of Omar the media always uses
A little more recent and more accurate sketched at his trial a few years ago
Picture the media definitely does not want to show ... picture of the Jihadist making IEDs.

Just the usual dishonest BS the Consensus Mainstream Media feeds us on a daily basis.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[rushmc 23]

livendive

***

Quote

His actions ARE consistent with a thug with a chip on his shoulder and an anger/violence problem.

Well, the actions that Zimmerman claimed he took.

We still don't know how the fight started, and we probably never will. The fact that Martin was winning when Zimmerman fired his fatal shot seems pretty clear, but the only evidence that Martin started the fight are Zimmerman's statements.

For the record, I think Zimmerman should have been tried, and I think he should have been acquitted. Which is exactly what happened.

This.

Blues,
Dave

Cool
So if the media thinks you need charged the cops can go for it. You can spend your money to defend yourelf

All of this even after the police did their job and decided not to charge you

Well, at least until it became political

Justice be damned

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GeorgiaDon 362]

davjohns

It took long enough, but here are last images of TM. Not what the media portrayed. Still think they were objective on this case? Think they are now?

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/07/65465-the-trayvon-martin-picture-the-mainstream-media-dont-want-you-to-see/

I guess I missed the part where he beat up the clerk and stole the skittles. I could definitely see the fear in that clerk's eyes.

Sure, he wasn't 12 years old. What's your point? A 12-year-old is a cute little kid, but a 17-year-old black male in a hoodie must be a thug? As much as the picture of TM the 12-year-old is misleading, the point of videos like the one you posted just as bad, as the point is to cater to the all-too-ingrained fear of black males that is epidemic in US society. "The video they don't want you to see" indeed!

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[GeorgiaDon 362]

DanG

Quote

His actions ARE consistent with a thug with a chip on his shoulder and an anger/violence problem.

Well, the actions that Zimmerman claimed he took.

We still don't know how the fight started, and we probably never will. The fact that Martin was winning when Zimmerman fired his fatal shot seems pretty clear, but the only evidence that Martin started the fight are Zimmerman's statements.

For the record, I think Zimmerman should have been tried, and I think he should have been acquitted. Which is exactly what happened.

I agree with every bit of this. I'll add that I thought murder 2 was a stretch, and that manslaughter would have been more appropriate. The prosecution was irreparably damaged by some poor witnesses, notably the girl who TM was on the phone with, but it's hard to predict just what witnesses will do on the stand.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[GeorgiaDon 362]

Quote

...if TM was so threatened and in need of self defence, why did he not continue walking home.

Will you go on the record as opposing "stand your ground" laws? Because it sounds as if you are saying people have a duty to retreat if possible.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[DanG 1]

Quote

I agree with every bit of this. I'll add that I thought murder 2 was a stretch, and that manslaughter would have been more appropriate. The prosecution was irreparably damaged by some poor witnesses, notably the girl who TM was on the phone with, but it's hard to predict just what witnesses will do on the stand.

I agree, manslaughter would have been the better charge. OTOH, I still think he should have been acquitted of manslaughter.

From a broader perspective, I think people who kill other people in public spaces should be tried, barring clear evidence of self-defense (like video, multiple unbiased witnesses, etc), regardless of the media coverage, or the skin color of the parties involved.

- Dan G

[normiss 800]

That witness is scheduled to appear on that fucktwat rocket from England tonight on CNN.
I hope they have subtitles.

[davjohns 1]

GeorgiaDon

***It took long enough, but here are last images of TM. Not what the media portrayed. Still think they were objective on this case? Think they are now?

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/07/65465-the-trayvon-martin-picture-the-mainstream-media-dont-want-you-to-see/

I guess I missed the part where he beat up the clerk and stole the skittles. I could definitely see the fear in that clerk's eyes.

Sure, he wasn't 12 years old. What's your point? A 12-year-old is a cute little kid, but a 17-year-old black male in a hoodie must be a thug? As much as the picture of TM the 12-year-old is misleading, the point of videos like the one you posted just as bad, as the point is to cater to the all-too-ingrained fear of black males that is epidemic in US society. "The video they don't want you to see" indeed!

Don

My point is exactly what I said. The media was never objective on this case. They twisted it from the beginning to get people stirred up and make news.

The point of this video is bad? It's the last accurate depiction of the 'child'. How is the most accurate information possible a bad thing?

No, a 17 year old black male in a hoodie is clearly not a thug. But if he has been smoking dope recently, has a history of drug use, has a history of petty theft, has a history of street fighting, is discussing buying and selling guns, has been sent to his father's because he's been suspended from school...the picture of the cute 12 year old in his football uniform just isn't honest anymore, is it?

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[kelpdiver 2]

GeorgiaDon

Sure, he wasn't 12 years old. What's your point? A 12-year-old is a cute little kid, but a 17-year-old black male in a hoodie must be a thug? As much as the picture of TM the 12-year-old is misleading, the point of videos like the one you posted just as bad, as the point is to cater to the all-too-ingrained fear of black males that is epidemic in US society. "The video they don't want you to see" indeed!

Check post #60 of this thread (and #44) where my initial thoughts were based on this deliberate misrepresentations of their sizes. Even without a height chart in the video, it's pretty clear that TM is not a little boy anymore. The photo for GZ went the other way - showing him to be bigger (by tens of pounds) than he was at the time of the shooting.

You know how stupid you question "what's your point" here is. At this point, it's probably time to just accept that this was a justifiable shooting and stop the lies and race baiting.

[kelpdiver 2]

DanG

We still don't know how the fight started, and we probably never will. The fact that Martin was winning when Zimmerman fired his fatal shot seems pretty clear, but the only evidence that Martin started the fight are Zimmerman's statements.

you missed some evidence - like TM's only injuries were to his hands and the gunshot itself. If Zimmerman started it, shouldn't he have scored some hits? Meanwhile GZ has the broken nose and the cuts on the back of the head. Seems rather imbalanced for a fight you (seem to) believe that GZ started.

Quote

For the record, I think Zimmerman should have been tried, and I think he should have been acquitted. Which is exactly what happened.

The prosecution's case shows that GZ was jailed for months for no reason. If you think he should have been acquitted in the first place, then why approve of his losing the last year of his life to this process?

[airtwardo 7]

Andy9o8

Jim, I'm tagging this comment as a "reply" to you because I respect your clear head; but it's really directed to everyone.

As I intimated up-thread, this thread has gone so far beyond the absurd, the way so many people here (even ignoring the couple of racist pigs) are firmly declaring either that A was blameless and B was doing evil, or vice-versa. This is a tragedy bred of two guys, each - that's right, each - too eager to confront, getting themselves into the ultimate dick-swinging contest. Problem was, you don't bring a swinging dick to a gunfight; and now one guy is dead, the other guy's life is ruined, and two families are ravaged.

To my fellow males: We all know the kind of shit men really hate the most about women, right? Well, this - this kind of incident here - is exactly the kind of shit that women collectively hate the most about men. As a gender, we should look at this incident and hang our heads in collective shame.

http://youtu.be/46bBWBG9r2o

Personally Andy I don't think it should have ever made the Grand Jury...it was/is media fuel at it's worst.

Certainly there are some 'real' crimes involving racism that have more merit but this was somehow the juicy one that the talking heads figured would sell the most breakfast cereal & Viagria during the commercial breaks.

What was the statistic I heard last evening - in the 500 some days since the incident there have been 7000+ black on black murders in the U.S. and nary a peep from the 'Gainstream' Media...THAT to me tells a sad story.

When we have even the POTUS saying we should 'honor' this 2 bit thug...one has to wonder the caliber of the audience the idiot box is pandering to these days.

Is GM a saint? No of course not, but I don't believe he had hatred for another race in his heart when he became involved in this.

BOTH bit off more than they could chew & no doubt both would if they could change the whole thing.

What we SHOULD be concerned about regarding this whole thing is how when the usual suspects smell a dollar to be made they have no compunction about intentionally misleading the public to create a maelstrom of emotion with perhaps not the 'sole intention' of furthering the hate and the distance between people of different color...but quite cognizant of that inevitable result.



Can't we ALL just get along?!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[DanG 1]

Quote

you missed some evidence - like TM's only injuries were to his hands and the gunshot itself. If Zimmerman started it, shouldn't he have scored some hits? Meanwhile GZ has the broken nose and the cuts on the back of the head.

Apparently you missed some evidence. Like Zimmerman's trainer saying he sucked at fighting.

Quote

Seems rather imbalanced for a fight you (seem to) believe that GZ started.

Firstly, don't make that assumption. I don't really care who started it. I was saying that we don't know tat, and never will. Nothing more, nothing less. Secondly, thanks for demonstrating the "with-us-or-agin-us" attitude that has characterized this case.

Quote

The prosecution's case shows that GZ was jailed for months for no reason. If you think he should have been acquitted in the first place, then why approve of his losing the last year of his life to this process?

Once, again, stop making assumptions about what I do and don't approve of. In this case, he was jailed because he lied under oath about his finances and status of his passport. If you recall, he was out on bail until he fucked it up for himself.

- Dan G

[jclalor 12]

Quote

So we have you officially on record proclaiming a civil case will be filed and GZ will lose?

Yes.

After listening to one to the jurors tonight state that the first vote was 3 for not guilty, 2 for manslaughter, and one for 2nd degree murder, it was not the slam dunk that everyone here seems to think it was.

[devildog 0]

jclalor

Quote

So we have you officially on record proclaiming a civil case will be filed and GZ will lose?

Yes.

After listening to one to the jurors tonight state that the first vote was 3 for not guilty, 2 for manslaughter, and one for 2nd degree murder, it was not the slam dunk that everyone here seems to think it was.

Yes, you've had quite the track record predicting this case. In about a day, that 3-2-1 went to 6-0 not guilty. Sounds like the 2-1 for some sort of guilt weren't terribly convinced of their own standing.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[jclalor 12]

Quote

devildog

***

***So we have you officially on record proclaiming a civil case will be filed and GZ will lose?

Yes.

After listening to one to the jurors tonight state that the first vote was 3 for not guilty, 2 for manslaughter, and one for 2nd degree murder, it was not the slam dunk that everyone here seems to think it was.

Yes, you've had quite the track record predicting this case. In about a day, that 3-2-1 went to 6-0 not guilty. Sounds like the 2-1 for some sort of guilt weren't terribly convinced of their own standing.


I don't believe I had made any predictions on the outcome of the criminal case. I have predicted there will be no federal charges, but I do predict there will be a civil case with damages awarded.

As I have stated earlier, the bar is much lower in a civil case, with a more competent lawyer, these same jurors could have just as easy have gone the other way, and it only requires a majority, not a unanimous decision.

PS. you mat want to use the quotation option on this site a little better and preview your post. Your last one, gave the appearance of you making a post that I had made.

The last thing I know you want to do, is to be (dis)credited with something I stated.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

devildog

Yes, you've had quite the track record predicting this case. In about a day, that 3-2-1 went to 6-0 not guilty. Sounds like the 2-1 for some sort of guilt weren't terribly convinced of their own standing.

That doesn't mean anything.

I did jury duty and got myself elected foreman.

The other jurors didn't come from professions where they were trained to think logically (at least one of the lawyers used up their peremptory challenges disqualifying doctors, engineers, and lawyers - I got empaneled after that with an MD as an alternate) and the initial votes were understandably based on emotion and incomplete understanding of the laws in question.

On one count I persuaded all 11 to change their minds from guilty to not guilty because the defendant did not violate the law as written.

Something similar happening in the Zimmerman trial seems quite reasonable.

[rushmc 23]

IMO

Anyone who supported a trial in this case fully supports the following

Because, because of the media hype and race baiters, there was no doubt this would happen (or anything similar)

Live with it

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-monday-20130715,0,5135359.story

....cause you own it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[davjohns 1]

DrewEckhardt

***

Yes, you've had quite the track record predicting this case. In about a day, that 3-2-1 went to 6-0 not guilty. Sounds like the 2-1 for some sort of guilt weren't terribly convinced of their own standing.

That doesn't mean anything.

I did jury duty and got myself elected foreman.

The other jurors didn't come from professions where they were trained to think logically (at least one of the lawyers used up their peremptory challenges disqualifying doctors, engineers, and lawyers - I got empaneled after that with an MD as an alternate) and the initial votes were understandably based on emotion and incomplete understanding of the laws in question.

On one count I persuaded all 11 to change their minds from guilty to not guilty because the defendant did not violate the law as written.

Something similar happening in the Zimmerman trial seems quite reasonable.

I don't know how accurate it was because it was paraphrased. But I heard on the radio a little while ago that the one juror who has talked about it said three wanted to convict of something when they went into the jury room. Then, they read the law and discovered he didn't commit a crime. Pretty funny...and good on them for understanding the difference between their emotional response and reason.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Isn't it pretty common for a jury to be divided before they start the deliberation process? Isn't that exactly what the deliberation process is for? These jurors changed their minds once they actually read the law and discovered that GZ did nothing wrong, from what I understand.

[davjohns 1]

Juries are such funny creatures...I would hate to call anything about them 'common'.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.