Florida Teen Shot

[kelpdiver 2]

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I like this bit:

"Martin was visiting his father's fiancee, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession."

I guess "zero tolerance" means you have no marijuana, just an empty bag.

the precise details are that there were trace amounts, which begs the question of why it was described as "empty." This apparently is the 3rd suspension for the young man.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Fact is, the investigation was bungled from the very start.

A month after the event has given so-called "eyewitnesses" plenty of time to collaborate in fabricating a consistent story in support of their guy (whichever guy that was).

If someone is predisposed to belief this was an assassination, there's really no winning. Then you can't believe the cops did their job, or that these witnesses exist. And since there is now a black acting police chief, you have to believe he's part of it too, either because he's an angry Uncle Tom, or adhering to a very broad code blue.

now do you see any point to investigating it at this point - will you believe anything that leads to an exoneration of the shooter?

[RonD1120 62]

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Some years back I remember some commentator somewhere state that blacks are going to have to work harder to maintain their number one persecuted minority status because Hispanics and Latinos were growing rapidly and taking over the slot.

People earn a living studying and predicting social phenomena, trends, injustices and the like. They are probably drafting federal grant proposals as we speak.

Sharpton, the first on the scene, and Jackson exacerbate these unfortunate incidents. I believe they do it for personal gain. As the saying goes, "Never let a good crisis go to waste."

I have no opinion until after the grand jury finding.

Gotta love the fox news signature move of when you want to say something really racist, simply start with "some people say", or "i once heard from some commentator..."

Mine was a first person statement of fact for consideration. It was not racist.

I stand by my belief that Sharpton and Jackson perpetuate racial tension for personal gain.

We just had two trials here in my area where 1) a 17 YO black male shot and killed two British tourists for being in the wrong neighborhood and 2) a 17 YO black male shot and killed a police officer that stopped him and asked for ID.

Where were Sharpton and Jackson on these incidents?

No where to be found. They only show up to further the cause of racial tension, increase personal exposure and profit.

You can research the trials. Both were in the last month or six weeks. The first was in Bradenton FL and the second in St. Petersburg FL.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Might as well make a few bucks off your dead child. Perhaps this will help with the greiving process.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/trayvon-martin-trademarks-769123

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MARCH 26--The mother of Trayvon Martin has filed two applications to secure trademarks containing her late son’s name, records show.

Sybrina Fulton is seeking marks for the phrases “I Am Trayvon” and “Justice for Trayvon,” according to filings made last week with the United States Patent and Trademark Office. In both instances, Fulton, 46, is seeking the trademarks for use on “Digital materials, namely, CDs and DVDs featuring Trayvon Martin,” and other products.

[kallend 2,027]

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I like this bit:

"Martin was visiting his father's fiancee, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession."

I guess "zero tolerance" means you have no marijuana, just an empty bag.

the precise details are that there were trace amounts, which begs the question of why it was described as "empty." This apparently is the 3rd suspension for the young man.

I believe that a careful analysis of the bills in your wallet at any given time is very likely to show trace amounts of cocaine. Doesn't prove you snort the stuff.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,027]

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Fact is, the investigation was bungled from the very start.

A month after the event has given so-called "eyewitnesses" plenty of time to collaborate in fabricating a consistent story in support of their guy (whichever guy that was).

If someone is predisposed to belief this was an assassination, there's really no winning. Then you can't believe the cops did their job, or that these witnesses exist. And since there is now a black acting police chief, you have to believe he's part of it too, either because he's an angry Uncle Tom, or adhering to a very broad code blue.

now do you see any point to investigating it at this point - will you believe anything that leads to an exoneration of the shooter?

I'm not sure I believe anything about the event except that the kid, armed only with groceries, was shot dead.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[airtwardo 7]

I'm not sure I believe anything about the event except that the kid, armed only with groceries, was shot dead.

[blkhwk91b 0]

True facts; guilt nor innocence no longer matters in this country. What does matter is political correctness.

"God" help us all for what will become of us.....

"Better to have a short life that is full of what you like doing, than a long life spent in a miserable way." - Alan Watts

[jakee 1,489]

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I will go with them at this time rather than your biased already convicted opinion

Once again, you are inventing the existence of eyewitness reports that exonerate him and pretending they have been reported in the press, I am simply asking to see them.

Your decision has clearly already been made.

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Oh
and the stories are there

No, they're not. Not the ones that show the reports I'm asking for. If they were, you would have been able to link to one, and so would Mike.

Now, Mike is admitting he was mistaken, so why are you still holding out?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

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How else could Zimmerman confront Martin if he wasn't able to outrun him, since he had to leave his truck?

You make the presumption that Martin was running away as fast as he could as soon as Zimmerman left his truck. We know this isn't true.

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Yes, Jake - I misread the statement and thought it mentioned the start of the fight.

So you knew you were flat wrong on the one specific issue I was asking about, and yet you had the gall to accuse me of word games at the start of your last post? Why is it impossible to have a straight discussion with you without any of that bullshit creeping in?

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Given that information, how *else* would the confrontation have taken place, absent Martin returning to the scene?

Billvon has given several scenarios. But that would presume you'd read the thread.

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Given that Zimmerman knew that the police were mere moments away, why would *Zimmerman* attack Martin?

Why did he follow him in the first place? He's got a history of being aggressive and confrontational and after chasing him in the first place, it wouldn't take much for Zimmerman to put Martin in genuine fear of his own safety.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

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Still waiting on your "plausable reasons".

Yes, you are. So how do you know they're whimsical? You must be going for some kind of contradiction record.

But seriously, can you think of no way that an unarmed man can threaten another unarmed man? Just a yes or a no. You can do it.

How many invitations do you need...

OK. Agrown man has just been following a teenager at night for no reason, grabs him by the arm and wont let go, while aggressively asking who the fuck he is and what the fuck he's doing, and threatening to kick his ass if he's a) a punk and b) if he tries to leave. That is but one of the things that would make me feel quite threatened if I was in the teenager's position.

Were you able to think of that? No? Then...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

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the precise details are that there were trace amounts, which begs the question of why it was described as "empty."

When my orange juice carton has only trace amounts of orange juice left on the sides I describe it as empty. Same with my car's gas tank. And, y'know, pretty much everything.

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This apparently is the 3rd suspension for the young man.

For marijuana? So what?

I thought the days of 'reefer madness' were rightfully dead and buried.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[wlsc 0]

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Some years back I remember some commentator somewhere state that blacks are going to have to work harder to maintain their number one persecuted minority status because Hispanics and Latinos were growing rapidly and taking over the slot.

People earn a living studying and predicting social phenomena, trends, injustices and the like. They are probably drafting federal grant proposals as we speak.

Sharpton, the first on the scene, and Jackson exacerbate these unfortunate incidents. I believe they do it for personal gain. As the saying goes, "Never let a good crisis go to waste."

I have no opinion until after the grand jury finding.

Gotta love the fox news signature move of when you want to say something really racist, simply start with "some people say", or "i once heard from some commentator..."

Mine was a first person statement of fact for consideration. It was not racist.


That commentator was being racist - and Stupid. Glad you don't agree with him.

[mirage62 0]

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now do you see any point to investigating it at this point - will you believe anything that leads to an exoneration of the shooter?

The easy answer is NO. I've read every thread here. Basically one group is just SURE that Zimmerman did it. There story has modifiyed somewhat but the facts are coming out.

The overiding fact is that a young boy is dead, and that is terrible - but other facts are coming out. Zimmerman was a fool, but Martain wasn't the perfect little kid either.

I find it interesting the pictures that are being used of Zimmerman and Martin. Ebe terrible, terrible Fox uses the picture of Zimmerman that makes him look like a thug and the sweet young picture of Martin.

Interesting.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[kallend 2,027]

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I'm not sure I believe anything about the event except that the kid, armed only with groceries, was shot dead.

Yeah the groceries and the intent to cause great bodily harm....



According to what Zimmerman told local officers, he lost sight of the teen and was returning to his SUV when Martin approached him and they exchanged words. He said Martin asked if he had a problem, Zimmerman replied no and reached for his cell phone. He then alleges that Martin said "well you do now" and punched him in the nose.


Zimmerman said he then fell to the ground and Martin got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk. Zimmerman said he began yelling for help.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/26/trayvon-martin-case-georg_n_1381322.html?1332811474&ncid=webmail1

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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"If the eyewitness reports are true, Martin closed on Zimmerman and knocked him to the ground, initiating the attack."

Except that there are no eye witness reports regarding that. Eye witnesses were attracted by cries for help, those didn't start until after the fight started.

There is confusion amongst eye witnesses who was on top of whom. The one eye witness who has gone to the media has been described in reports as a friend of Zimemrman.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Might as well make a few bucks off your dead child. Perhaps this will help with the greiving process.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/trayvon-martin-trademarks-769123

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MARCH 26--The mother of Trayvon Martin has filed two applications to secure trademarks containing her late son’s name, records show.

Sybrina Fulton is seeking marks for the phrases “I Am Trayvon” and “Justice for Trayvon,” according to filings made last week with the United States Patent and Trademark Office. In both instances, Fulton, 46, is seeking the trademarks for use on “Digital materials, namely, CDs and DVDs featuring Trayvon Martin,” and other products.

That also prevents other people from making money of her dead child. But you wouldn't look at it from that side, would you....

[airtwardo 7]

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I'm not sure I believe anything about the event except that the kid, armed only with groceries, was shot dead.

Yeah the groceries and the intent to cause great bodily harm....



According to what Zimmerman told local officers, he lost sight of the teen and was returning to his SUV when Martin approached him and they exchanged words. He said Martin asked if he had a problem, Zimmerman replied no and reached for his cell phone. He then alleges that Martin said "well you do now" and punched him in the nose.


Zimmerman said he then fell to the ground and Martin got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk. Zimmerman said he began yelling for help.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/26/trayvon-martin-case-georg_n_1381322.html?1332811474&ncid=webmail1

That's just his story, not a proven fact.

[wlsc 0]

Killers have shown time after time that they can lie to cover their tracks. They can even get their friends to give them alibis.

[rushmc 23]

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Killers have shown time after time that they can lie to cover their tracks. They can even get their friends to give them alibis.

So you are the judge and jury and the case is closed


Very open minded of you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[airtwardo 7]

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Killers have shown time after time that they can lie to cover their tracks. They can even get their friends to give them alibis.

Yup...

And vocal Black leaders have shown time after time that they can turn non existent prejudice into profit by utilizing mis-information as a tool to create unrest and/or twist justice. Read O.J.'s book...even HE says so.

What's your point?

Is there really a problem with letting the FACTS play out here?

~put down the Kool Aid and think with your head not your emotions that are being played by pros...question EVERYTHING sure, to blindly believe what you're being told by someone with an agenda is ludicrous.


That kind of mentality can end up having ya killing a few million Jews, or wearing purple sneakers and eating poison to catch a ride on a spaceship...or making those around you drinking even MORE suicidal Kool Aid

WHENEVER I see someone trying to create a pack mentality...I step back and look for motivation in doing that, don't have to look real hard on this one.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Southern_Man 0]

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Is there really a problem with letting the FACTS play out here?

Unfortunately I think it is likely that the facts will never all be known. Makes it a bit of a Roschach test, I think. We know Zimmermann got out of his vehicle and followed the dude at some point, we know there was a scuffle at some point (and apparently Z was getting the worst of that), we know that Zimmerman shot Martin. Between those things there is a lot of fill-in-the-blank going on.

I have a question for the attorneys, though. My belief was that self-defense in a case like this was an affirmative defense, which would shift the burden to Zimmerman to establish certain elements of his defense. Is that correct? Of does the prosecution have to estbalish that Zimmerman was "not" in fear of his life?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[DougH 270]

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Trolls have shown time after time that they can post to get a rise out of people. They can even get other posters to respond to them.

Don't feed the race baiting trolls.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Is there really a problem with letting the FACTS play out here?

Not at all.

Isn't anybody concerned this may not have happened the first time around?

(Never mind the larger issue that race relations are still extremely poor for this outcry to occur)

[billvon 2,991]

>Basically one group is just SURE that Zimmerman did it.

There's no question that he shot the kid.

The question is - is he guilty of murder or manslaughter? One group is positive he is guilty, and killed him because he hated blacks; one is positive he is a completely innocent guy who heroically defended himself against a deadly threat. The truth is almost certainly between those two extremes.