DaVinci 0 #551 March 27, 2012 Quote>In this case, there was not enough evidence to ride him. Sounds like in his previous arrests there _was_ enough. Yet not enough in_this_situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #552 March 27, 2012 Quote>Three arrests, no convictions? I have not seen this yet, so I ask for clarification. Two arrests, my mistake. One for domestic violence, one for an attack on a police officer. The arrest for battery on the police officer resulted in two charges; both were dropped. ================================ The North Mobile Post News and Commentary from Around the World Sanford Police Chief Steps Down over Trayvon Martin Case Friday, March 23, 2012 The growing outrage over the murder of Trayvon Martin has led Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee to temporarily step down from his position. . . . Police originally told Martin’s parents that Zimmerman had a clean record. That information has turned out to be false. In 2005 a woman accused Zimmerman of domestic violence and had an injunction filed against him. The month prior he had been arrested for shoving a police officer at a bar near the University of Central Florida. ================================= ONE arrest, charges dropped. Injunction isn't an arrest, and it was disposed by the judge.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #553 March 27, 2012 Quote Since Obama and the DOJ have inserted themselves into this, I think it would be appropriate for them to speak out publically and condemn militias offering bounties. Can you imagine the outrage if the Minutemen of some right-wing militia group made the same offer? I think I can imagine it...hell there would be FBI SWAT Teams moving in on the Right-Wing militia groups with Eric Holder performing a press conference with real time video of the whities being pulled out of their compounds with sleeveless JESUS LOVES YOU T-Shirts on. Much like the media or this thread, there is very little outrage of a terrorist organization (My Opinion)that can place a bounty on a US Citizen without so much a peep from Law Enforcement or from our President who has inserted himself on other occasions when it seemed politically expedient. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #554 March 27, 2012 ***This, and I would most likely call 911.QuoteIf I thought the guy was a real threat and I was scared for my life,hell yes, I would say thats a good reason to bug the cops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Channman 2 #555 March 27, 2012 > The Police dispatcher even told him to stay in his car. Nuff said. Police Dispatcher, only said, you don't have to follow him. Big differance I believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #556 March 27, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote I'm not sure I believe anything about the event except that the kid, armed only with groceries, was shot dead. Yeah the groceries and the intent to cause great bodily harm.... According to what Zimmerman told local officers, he lost sight of the teen and was returning to his SUV when Martin approached him and they exchanged words. He said Martin asked if he had a problem, Zimmerman replied no and reached for his cell phone. He then alleges that Martin said "well you do now" and punched him in the nose. Zimmerman said he then fell to the ground and Martin got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk. Zimmerman said he began yelling for help. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/26/trayvon-martin-case-georg_n_1381322.html?1332811474&ncid=webmail1 That's just his story, not a proven fact. Absolutely...as is the OTHER side of the story. Which is why ALL I am prepared to believe at this time is that the kid, armed only with groceries, was shot dead. This is indisputable. Everything else is subject to spin, lies and prevarication.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #555 March 27, 2012 > The Police dispatcher even told him to stay in his car. Nuff said. Police Dispatcher, only said, you don't have to follow him. Big differance I believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #556 March 27, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote I'm not sure I believe anything about the event except that the kid, armed only with groceries, was shot dead. Yeah the groceries and the intent to cause great bodily harm.... According to what Zimmerman told local officers, he lost sight of the teen and was returning to his SUV when Martin approached him and they exchanged words. He said Martin asked if he had a problem, Zimmerman replied no and reached for his cell phone. He then alleges that Martin said "well you do now" and punched him in the nose. Zimmerman said he then fell to the ground and Martin got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk. Zimmerman said he began yelling for help. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/26/trayvon-martin-case-georg_n_1381322.html?1332811474&ncid=webmail1 That's just his story, not a proven fact. Absolutely...as is the OTHER side of the story. Which is why ALL I am prepared to believe at this time is that the kid, armed only with groceries, was shot dead. This is indisputable. Everything else is subject to spin, lies and prevarication.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #557 March 27, 2012 QuoteQuoteI guess "zero tolerance" means you have no marijuana, just an empty bag. "an empty bag of mj" is really misleading and plays to one side only was it a bag "with mj remnants"? or a bag that "had an odor of/evidence of" mj? then that's one thing Else it's just an empty bag of empty saying "empty bag of mj" just leads to ridicule and nonsense - they need to be specific Yep. There's a distinctly fishy smell about the whole affair.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #558 March 27, 2012 Quote Which is why ALL I am prepared to believe at this time is that the kid, armed only with groceries, was shot dead. This is indisputable. Everything else is subject to spin, lies and prevarication. Well the broken nose is real, I believe. A witness has stated that Zimmerman was the one on the ground. A witness. I realize that people are saying that the witness is a friend - but is that fact? Long ways from saying Zimmerman sb free. But John there are other facts.Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #559 March 27, 2012 QuoteGiven the lag between Martin taking off at a run and Zimmerman ending the call to 911 as he was returning to his truck, What evidence is there of Martin taking off and running? Is there anything more than just Zimmerman stating it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #560 March 27, 2012 ***"New black panthers party"placing a $10,000.00 bounty on a US citizen.....QuoteRight! What would the feds do if any other group(Mafia,aryan brotherhood,the elks,the sons of norway,yakima indian nation,ect ect ect...)made a public announcement of a bounty on anyone(white,black,asian,ect ect ect...)? We should be hearing news of the feds knocking down the doors of the panther lair if they were being fair and impartial and doing the job without bias. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #561 March 27, 2012 QuoteAccording to the news today, he had been suspended three times. 1. Vandalizing school property (spray paint). 2. Found with a bunch of womens jewelry. 3. Marijuana bag. Uhm no, thats not what the news is reporting. 1. Vandalizing school property 2. tardiness and truancy 3. trace amounts of MJ in an empty bag. The jewelery was confiscated, he was not suspended for it, nor has it ever been established if the jewelery was stolen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #562 March 27, 2012 QuoteI have a question for the attorneys, though. My belief was that self-defense in a case like this was an affirmative defense, which would shift the burden to Zimmerman to establish certain elements of his defense. Is that correct? Of does the prosecution have to estbalish that Zimmerman was "not" in fear of his life? Generally, the answer is more or less the same, with some variances in burden-of-proof analysis from one state to another. Self defense is an affirmative defense. In Florida, the prosecution has the initial burden of establishing the crime to a sufficient evidentiary level that a jury could, if it so chose, conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty. The burden then shifts to the defendant to affirmatively establish some additional evidence (even if only the defendant's testimony - or something else, or something more) - from which the jury could derive reasonable doubt as to the defendant's guilt. In Florida, that level of defense evidence need not be nearly as strong as the level of evidence required of the prosecution. A good discussion of the self-defense burden of proof in Florida may be found in Montijo v. Florida. Here's the link. http://www.5dca.org/Opinions/Opin2011/041111/5D09-3434.op.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wlsc 0 #563 March 27, 2012 QuoteQuote Which is why ALL I am prepared to believe at this time is that the kid, armed only with groceries, was shot dead. This is indisputable. Everything else is subject to spin, lies and prevarication. Well the broken nose is real, I believe. A witness has stated that Zimmerman was the one on the ground. A witness. I realize that people are saying that the witness is a friend - but is that fact? Long ways from saying Zimmerman sb free. But John there are other facts. Zimmerman said he 'went for his cellphone'. That could easily look like 'going for his gun'. Zimmerman also knew he had a friend at hand phoning the police. Why didn't the friend help physically if Zimmerman was calling for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #564 March 27, 2012 QuoteQuoteGiven the lag between Martin taking off at a run and Zimmerman ending the call to 911 as he was returning to his truck, What evidence is there of Martin taking off and running? Is there anything more than just Zimmerman stating it? What evidence is there of Zimmerman stalking or confronting Martin? Is there anything more than just the family/Jackson/Sharpton stating it?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #565 March 27, 2012 QuoteWhat evidence is there of Zimmerman stalking or confronting Martin? You mean besides the 911 operator asking him if he's following Martin, to which Zimmerman says, "Yeah"?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #566 March 27, 2012 QuoteWhat evidence is there of Zimmerman stalking or confronting Martin? Is there anything more than just the family/Jackson/Sharpton stating it? There is evidence of Zimemrman going after/starting to follow Martin through an admission from Zimmerman himself. There is evidence of a confrontation with one dead body. You are making statement quoted above and I was wondering if you had anything beyond Zimmerman stating it? Judging by your evasion, you don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #567 March 27, 2012 QuoteQuoteWhat evidence is there of Zimmerman stalking or confronting Martin? You mean besides the 911 operator asking him if he's following Martin, to which Zimmerman says, "Yeah"? Yup...2 seconds before the 911 operators says "we don't need you to do that" and Zimmerman saying "OK" and stopping the pursuit two seconds after that to return to his truck. Damnit, those 4 second stalkings have GOT to stop!!!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #568 March 27, 2012 QuoteQuoteWhat evidence is there of Zimmerman stalking or confronting Martin? Is there anything more than just the family/Jackson/Sharpton stating it? There is evidence of Zimemrman going after/starting to follow Martin through an admission from Zimmerman himself. Following != stalking. There's also evidence from the 911 transcript that he lost sight of Martin: "It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]" Note the time - some 90 seconds after he said Martin was running (2:08), and over a minute after the dispatcher telling him he didn't need to follow Martin (2:26). QuoteThere is evidence of a confrontation with one dead body. No evidence that *Zimmerman* initiated the confrontation. Given the info above from the 911 transcript, maybe YOU can explain how Zimmerman got in front of Martin to cause the confrontation? QuoteYou are making statement quoted above and I was wondering if you had anything beyond Zimmerman stating it? Judging by your evasion, you don't. Locations and the transcript of the 911 call - what do you have besides the statements of Sharpton/Jackson/family? Any evidence?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,489 #569 March 27, 2012 QuoteIf Zimmerman is WHITE (like the press keeps reporting) Obama is WHITE. A) I have no idea what the fuck you are responding to. B) Zimmerman, as shown by people who are trying to prove he's not white, is at least half white. Like, central european white. So, why is he not WHITE? And if he's not, what is he?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,489 #570 March 27, 2012 Quoteit's clear we don't have a young and innocent little boy here. The rest of your post is irrelebant. However here, the boy may not be innocent of absolutely anything ever, but there is still no evdence tying him to violent behaviour. The only prior evidence ties him to MJ. Like I said, reefer madness is long past. QuoteWith the presumed existence of a witness saying he was an aggressor What witness? What presumption? Testify my brother! Testify!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,489 #571 March 27, 2012 QuoteIt was certainly important enough for you to mention that he *wasn't* running as fast as he could, so why change the story now? Uh, no. May have been, may not have been, but not right from the start. So what's your problem? Your entire point depends on Martin running faster than Zimmerman initially, so why do you care so much if I describe Martin as running as fast as he can or not? It makes no quantifiable difference, so what are you doing apart from playin meaningless, bullshit wordgames? QuoteAh, yes... I didn't *specifically* mention bill's scenario of Zimmerman walking up to Martin, grabbing him and saying "time to die"....silly me. Bill posited plenty more scenario's than that. Could you not be bothered to read them, or are you being purposefully dishonest? Either or, no third option. QuoteLike Zimmerman being on the ground with Martin on top of him. 911 transcript has Zimmerman stopping the foot chase and returning to his truck to meet with the cops. Martin being on top has fuck all to do with who approached who and you know it. Stop lying, it impresses no-one. 911 transcript does not have Zimmerman returning to his truck. It has Zimmerman saying he will return to his truck. So, given the statement you replied to... in what fucking world do you equate Zimmerman's 911 statements with 'eyewitness' reports? You said that 'eyewitness reports' give plenty of info on how Zimmerman came face to face with Martin. Flat out, unequivocably, that is what you said. So, what eyewitness reports? What do they say? QuoteWell, Martin had *just* come to the neighborhood a couple days before the incident, supposedly. How else was he supposed to have known about all that aggression and confrontationalism of Zimmerman's in order to be afraid of him, if they hadn't met? What does that have to do with it? Why would Martin need to know that Zimmerman had a confrontational history if Zimmerman was being confrontational? Especially given that Martin knew Zimmerman was following him? QuoteAbsent a prior meeting between Zimmerman, why would Martin be in fear of his own safety from Zimmerman? Because he knew he was following him. Which, according to his GF, he did.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,489 #572 March 27, 2012 QuoteNo, it's very likely he was only arrested because he's Hispanic. Dude, You can't even get his name right despite about 10 prompting otherwise. I believe you have shown yourself to the most racist commentator on this thread.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jgoose71 0 #573 March 27, 2012 QuoteQuoteIf Zimmerman is WHITE (like the press keeps reporting) Obama is WHITE. A) I have no idea what the fuck you are responding to. B) Zimmerman, as shown by people who are trying to prove he's not white, is at least half white. Like, central european white. So, why is he not WHITE? And if he's not, what is he? Obama's mother is white, so Obama is half white. So when he started bombing Libya, do we say, "Oh look, another rich white guy in the white house dropping bombs on poor black people again."?"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,489 #574 March 27, 2012 Quote"an empty bag of mj" is really misleading and plays to one side only Why? It's described as an empty bag of MJ, not as an empty bag. QuoteElse it's just an empty bag of empty Why? If I call an empty carton an empty carton of milk, I don't expect people to presume it once contained OJ. Seriously, what is the problem? It was an empty baggy of MJ. A baggy that once contained MJ, but did not contain it when he was caught. A more accurate descriptin, you could not provide. If you called it a full bag of MJ, you would be wrong. So what's the fucking problem?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #575 March 27, 2012 QuoteQuoteIt was certainly important enough for you to mention that he *wasn't* running as fast as he could, so why change the story now? Uh, no. May have been, may not have been, but not right from the start. So what's your problem?[/reply} What was yours with the statement? QuoteYour entire point depends on Martin running faster than Zimmerman initially, so why do you care so much if I describe Martin as running as fast as he can or not? It makes no quantifiable difference, so what are you doing apart from playin meaningless, bullshit wordgames? Pointing out that Martin outran Zimmerman, which takes the confrontation angle out of the picture. Sorta hard to confront someone that you can't get in reach of, isn't it? QuoteQuoteAh, yes... I didn't *specifically* mention bill's scenario of Zimmerman walking up to Martin, grabbing him and saying "time to die"....silly me. Bill posited plenty more scenario's than that. Yeah? List 'em. QuoteCould you not be bothered to read them, Actually, I have - how *ELSE* did I know the "time to die" scenario? Quote or are you being purposefully dishonest? Either or, no third option. Well, we see which option YOU took. QuoteQuoteLike Zimmerman being on the ground with Martin on top of him. 911 transcript has Zimmerman stopping the foot chase and returning to his truck to meet with the cops. Martin being on top has fuck all to do with who approached who and you know it. Stop lying, it impresses no-one. Never claimed Martin had the upper hand in the fight had anything to with whom approached whom. Maybe you should stop lying, yourself. Quote911 transcript does not have Zimmerman returning to his truck. It has Zimmerman saying he will return to his truck. So, given the statement you replied to... in what fucking world do you equate Zimmerman's 911 statements with 'eyewitness' reports? "OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42] Zimmerman: Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]" You're right - the mailboxes are actually *PAST* his truck. QuoteYou said that 'eyewitness reports' give plenty of info on how Zimmerman came face to face with Martin. Flat out, unequivocably, that is what you said. So, what eyewitness reports? What do they say? Really? Where did I claim that, absent the eyewitness report that I've already admitted I misread? QuoteQuoteWell, Martin had *just* come to the neighborhood a couple days before the incident, supposedly. How else was he supposed to have known about all that aggression and confrontationalism of Zimmerman's in order to be afraid of him, if they hadn't met? What does that have to do with it? You're the one making the claim he needed to be afraid of Zimmerman. QuoteWhy would Martin need to know that Zimmerman had a confrontational history if Zimmerman was being confrontational? Especially given that Martin knew Zimmerman was following him? Where did Zimmerman confront Martin? Martin started running, Zimmerman pursued and then stopped. In fact, Zimmerman had *LOST SIGHT* of Martin: "It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]" Where's the confrontation? QuoteQuoteAbsent a prior meeting between Zimmerman, why would Martin be in fear of his own safety from Zimmerman? Because he knew he was following him. Which, according to his GF, he did. He knew it was Zimmerman following him?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. 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SkyDekker 1,465 #561 March 27, 2012 QuoteAccording to the news today, he had been suspended three times. 1. Vandalizing school property (spray paint). 2. Found with a bunch of womens jewelry. 3. Marijuana bag. Uhm no, thats not what the news is reporting. 1. Vandalizing school property 2. tardiness and truancy 3. trace amounts of MJ in an empty bag. The jewelery was confiscated, he was not suspended for it, nor has it ever been established if the jewelery was stolen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #562 March 27, 2012 QuoteI have a question for the attorneys, though. My belief was that self-defense in a case like this was an affirmative defense, which would shift the burden to Zimmerman to establish certain elements of his defense. Is that correct? Of does the prosecution have to estbalish that Zimmerman was "not" in fear of his life? Generally, the answer is more or less the same, with some variances in burden-of-proof analysis from one state to another. Self defense is an affirmative defense. In Florida, the prosecution has the initial burden of establishing the crime to a sufficient evidentiary level that a jury could, if it so chose, conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty. The burden then shifts to the defendant to affirmatively establish some additional evidence (even if only the defendant's testimony - or something else, or something more) - from which the jury could derive reasonable doubt as to the defendant's guilt. In Florida, that level of defense evidence need not be nearly as strong as the level of evidence required of the prosecution. A good discussion of the self-defense burden of proof in Florida may be found in Montijo v. Florida. Here's the link. http://www.5dca.org/Opinions/Opin2011/041111/5D09-3434.op.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wlsc 0 #563 March 27, 2012 QuoteQuote Which is why ALL I am prepared to believe at this time is that the kid, armed only with groceries, was shot dead. This is indisputable. Everything else is subject to spin, lies and prevarication. Well the broken nose is real, I believe. A witness has stated that Zimmerman was the one on the ground. A witness. I realize that people are saying that the witness is a friend - but is that fact? Long ways from saying Zimmerman sb free. But John there are other facts. Zimmerman said he 'went for his cellphone'. That could easily look like 'going for his gun'. Zimmerman also knew he had a friend at hand phoning the police. Why didn't the friend help physically if Zimmerman was calling for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #564 March 27, 2012 QuoteQuoteGiven the lag between Martin taking off at a run and Zimmerman ending the call to 911 as he was returning to his truck, What evidence is there of Martin taking off and running? Is there anything more than just Zimmerman stating it? What evidence is there of Zimmerman stalking or confronting Martin? Is there anything more than just the family/Jackson/Sharpton stating it?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #565 March 27, 2012 QuoteWhat evidence is there of Zimmerman stalking or confronting Martin? You mean besides the 911 operator asking him if he's following Martin, to which Zimmerman says, "Yeah"?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #566 March 27, 2012 QuoteWhat evidence is there of Zimmerman stalking or confronting Martin? Is there anything more than just the family/Jackson/Sharpton stating it? There is evidence of Zimemrman going after/starting to follow Martin through an admission from Zimmerman himself. There is evidence of a confrontation with one dead body. You are making statement quoted above and I was wondering if you had anything beyond Zimmerman stating it? Judging by your evasion, you don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #567 March 27, 2012 QuoteQuoteWhat evidence is there of Zimmerman stalking or confronting Martin? You mean besides the 911 operator asking him if he's following Martin, to which Zimmerman says, "Yeah"? Yup...2 seconds before the 911 operators says "we don't need you to do that" and Zimmerman saying "OK" and stopping the pursuit two seconds after that to return to his truck. Damnit, those 4 second stalkings have GOT to stop!!!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #568 March 27, 2012 QuoteQuoteWhat evidence is there of Zimmerman stalking or confronting Martin? Is there anything more than just the family/Jackson/Sharpton stating it? There is evidence of Zimemrman going after/starting to follow Martin through an admission from Zimmerman himself. Following != stalking. There's also evidence from the 911 transcript that he lost sight of Martin: "It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]" Note the time - some 90 seconds after he said Martin was running (2:08), and over a minute after the dispatcher telling him he didn't need to follow Martin (2:26). QuoteThere is evidence of a confrontation with one dead body. No evidence that *Zimmerman* initiated the confrontation. Given the info above from the 911 transcript, maybe YOU can explain how Zimmerman got in front of Martin to cause the confrontation? QuoteYou are making statement quoted above and I was wondering if you had anything beyond Zimmerman stating it? Judging by your evasion, you don't. Locations and the transcript of the 911 call - what do you have besides the statements of Sharpton/Jackson/family? Any evidence?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #569 March 27, 2012 QuoteIf Zimmerman is WHITE (like the press keeps reporting) Obama is WHITE. A) I have no idea what the fuck you are responding to. B) Zimmerman, as shown by people who are trying to prove he's not white, is at least half white. Like, central european white. So, why is he not WHITE? And if he's not, what is he?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #570 March 27, 2012 Quoteit's clear we don't have a young and innocent little boy here. The rest of your post is irrelebant. However here, the boy may not be innocent of absolutely anything ever, but there is still no evdence tying him to violent behaviour. The only prior evidence ties him to MJ. Like I said, reefer madness is long past. QuoteWith the presumed existence of a witness saying he was an aggressor What witness? What presumption? Testify my brother! Testify!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #571 March 27, 2012 QuoteIt was certainly important enough for you to mention that he *wasn't* running as fast as he could, so why change the story now? Uh, no. May have been, may not have been, but not right from the start. So what's your problem? Your entire point depends on Martin running faster than Zimmerman initially, so why do you care so much if I describe Martin as running as fast as he can or not? It makes no quantifiable difference, so what are you doing apart from playin meaningless, bullshit wordgames? QuoteAh, yes... I didn't *specifically* mention bill's scenario of Zimmerman walking up to Martin, grabbing him and saying "time to die"....silly me. Bill posited plenty more scenario's than that. Could you not be bothered to read them, or are you being purposefully dishonest? Either or, no third option. QuoteLike Zimmerman being on the ground with Martin on top of him. 911 transcript has Zimmerman stopping the foot chase and returning to his truck to meet with the cops. Martin being on top has fuck all to do with who approached who and you know it. Stop lying, it impresses no-one. 911 transcript does not have Zimmerman returning to his truck. It has Zimmerman saying he will return to his truck. So, given the statement you replied to... in what fucking world do you equate Zimmerman's 911 statements with 'eyewitness' reports? You said that 'eyewitness reports' give plenty of info on how Zimmerman came face to face with Martin. Flat out, unequivocably, that is what you said. So, what eyewitness reports? What do they say? QuoteWell, Martin had *just* come to the neighborhood a couple days before the incident, supposedly. How else was he supposed to have known about all that aggression and confrontationalism of Zimmerman's in order to be afraid of him, if they hadn't met? What does that have to do with it? Why would Martin need to know that Zimmerman had a confrontational history if Zimmerman was being confrontational? Especially given that Martin knew Zimmerman was following him? QuoteAbsent a prior meeting between Zimmerman, why would Martin be in fear of his own safety from Zimmerman? Because he knew he was following him. Which, according to his GF, he did.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #572 March 27, 2012 QuoteNo, it's very likely he was only arrested because he's Hispanic. Dude, You can't even get his name right despite about 10 prompting otherwise. I believe you have shown yourself to the most racist commentator on this thread.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #573 March 27, 2012 QuoteQuoteIf Zimmerman is WHITE (like the press keeps reporting) Obama is WHITE. A) I have no idea what the fuck you are responding to. B) Zimmerman, as shown by people who are trying to prove he's not white, is at least half white. Like, central european white. So, why is he not WHITE? And if he's not, what is he? Obama's mother is white, so Obama is half white. So when he started bombing Libya, do we say, "Oh look, another rich white guy in the white house dropping bombs on poor black people again."?"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #574 March 27, 2012 Quote"an empty bag of mj" is really misleading and plays to one side only Why? It's described as an empty bag of MJ, not as an empty bag. QuoteElse it's just an empty bag of empty Why? If I call an empty carton an empty carton of milk, I don't expect people to presume it once contained OJ. Seriously, what is the problem? It was an empty baggy of MJ. A baggy that once contained MJ, but did not contain it when he was caught. A more accurate descriptin, you could not provide. If you called it a full bag of MJ, you would be wrong. So what's the fucking problem?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #575 March 27, 2012 QuoteQuoteIt was certainly important enough for you to mention that he *wasn't* running as fast as he could, so why change the story now? Uh, no. May have been, may not have been, but not right from the start. So what's your problem?[/reply} What was yours with the statement? QuoteYour entire point depends on Martin running faster than Zimmerman initially, so why do you care so much if I describe Martin as running as fast as he can or not? It makes no quantifiable difference, so what are you doing apart from playin meaningless, bullshit wordgames? Pointing out that Martin outran Zimmerman, which takes the confrontation angle out of the picture. Sorta hard to confront someone that you can't get in reach of, isn't it? QuoteQuoteAh, yes... I didn't *specifically* mention bill's scenario of Zimmerman walking up to Martin, grabbing him and saying "time to die"....silly me. Bill posited plenty more scenario's than that. Yeah? List 'em. QuoteCould you not be bothered to read them, Actually, I have - how *ELSE* did I know the "time to die" scenario? Quote or are you being purposefully dishonest? Either or, no third option. Well, we see which option YOU took. QuoteQuoteLike Zimmerman being on the ground with Martin on top of him. 911 transcript has Zimmerman stopping the foot chase and returning to his truck to meet with the cops. Martin being on top has fuck all to do with who approached who and you know it. Stop lying, it impresses no-one. Never claimed Martin had the upper hand in the fight had anything to with whom approached whom. Maybe you should stop lying, yourself. Quote911 transcript does not have Zimmerman returning to his truck. It has Zimmerman saying he will return to his truck. So, given the statement you replied to... in what fucking world do you equate Zimmerman's 911 statements with 'eyewitness' reports? "OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42] Zimmerman: Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]" You're right - the mailboxes are actually *PAST* his truck. QuoteYou said that 'eyewitness reports' give plenty of info on how Zimmerman came face to face with Martin. Flat out, unequivocably, that is what you said. So, what eyewitness reports? What do they say? Really? Where did I claim that, absent the eyewitness report that I've already admitted I misread? QuoteQuoteWell, Martin had *just* come to the neighborhood a couple days before the incident, supposedly. How else was he supposed to have known about all that aggression and confrontationalism of Zimmerman's in order to be afraid of him, if they hadn't met? What does that have to do with it? You're the one making the claim he needed to be afraid of Zimmerman. QuoteWhy would Martin need to know that Zimmerman had a confrontational history if Zimmerman was being confrontational? Especially given that Martin knew Zimmerman was following him? Where did Zimmerman confront Martin? Martin started running, Zimmerman pursued and then stopped. In fact, Zimmerman had *LOST SIGHT* of Martin: "It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]" Where's the confrontation? QuoteQuoteAbsent a prior meeting between Zimmerman, why would Martin be in fear of his own safety from Zimmerman? Because he knew he was following him. Which, according to his GF, he did. He knew it was Zimmerman following him?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Next Page 23 of 132 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
