Channman 2 #676 March 29, 2012 Quote ***"New black panthers party"placing a $10,000.00 bounty on a US citizen..... Quote Right! What would the feds do if any other group(Mafia,aryan brotherhood,the elks,the sons of norway,yakima indian nation,ect ect ect...)made a public announcement of a bounty on anyone(white,black,asian,ect ect ect...)? We should be hearing news of the feds knocking down the doors of the panther lair if they were being fair and impartial and doing the job without bias. NBPP's Bounty is up to more than $26,000.00 I hear going into our second week of where's George. No word from our President, Justice Department, FBI, Homeland Security, the Media or the NFL concerning this BOUNTY on a US Citizen. With more than 5,000 willing kidnappers patroling the area looking to cash in you would think you could get a little update as to their efforts. Hell, Spike Lee has made every effort to help in the cause, by tweeting the address of an elderly couple, who now has been forced into hiding in fear of their lives. It is however comforting that at least here in Speaker Corner we are discussing the more important issues of the case using our highly developed CSI skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #677 March 29, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote How many punches or head slams are required before some one can defend themselves Enough that the police would take the individual to an ER for a check up. So you would argue that the capacity for a situation to cause harm is irrelevant and that there is a threshold of harm that needs to be incurred before you can defend yourself from further harm. Should the same standard be applied to someone faced with an attacker with a weapon, say a knife or gun? If not please explain why different standards should be used. Nope. I am saying that if a suspect *claims* injury (especially a head injury as is the case here), then the duty of the police is to have that checked out by medical professionals. For liability reasons, if nothing else. That was certainly SOP when I was a sworn LEO some 40 years ago. Now were are delving into a separate topic, police procedure. Just a minute ago we were talking about the standards for self defense. I won't ever find myself running a crime scene since I am not a LEO, but I may find some one sitting on my chest in a position of advantage to bash my head with one good whack and leave me as more of a drooling fool than I started as. You stated a threshold before injury before some one can defend themselves: Quote Enough that the police would take the individual to an ER for a check up. You seem to be implying that there is no capacity for serious harm from some one knocking you to the ground and taking a position that gives them a serious upper hand by sitting on your chest. I don't know about you but I am pretty sure that if I was to pin some ones hands with my knees by sitting on their chest that I could give them a really bad head injury by grabbing their head and bashing it one time only into a hard surface. That is all it would take. We don't require people to get stabbed once before they can defend themselves because their is a capacity for serious harm. The same goes for someone face with an attacker with a gun. If someone sitting on your chest could cause you serious harm, and I say that they could, then the same standard should apply."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #678 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote People refuse to go to the ER all the time. He didn't refuse first aid, which is what was reported. As I said before: What you guys are suggesting is that the police arrived and in the span of seconds, all came to the conspiracy consensus that they should file false reports. "Hey! You just get here?" "Yeah, why?" "We're gonna set up that little black kid and tell the white guy to tell everyone he was punched in the face. You in?" "But I could lose my job. My career. Go to jail...but you're right... it's just too good to pass up! I'm in. Pass it along." yeah, that sounds much more plausible I'm not suggesting anything. I find it highly suspicious that a guy with a *claimed* head injury is not taken to the ER by the police as SOP. You can't force anyone to go to the hospital. When I was a cop, we had to talk people into going all the time. The guy is handcuffed - he is in police custody. What if he really had a serious head injury such as brain bleeding (which may not manifest itself with symptoms for hours)? He'd have a great civil case against the PD. If your PD held suspects with possible head injuries and did not get them medically examined, your PD was, IMO, delinquent in its duties.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davjohns 1 #679 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote He sought medical attention the next day which could have meant as soon as he finished giving the Police his statement. "Could-a" You mean *after* he could have self-inflicted some damage? Yes, I'm sure he had someone smash his head against a sidewalk and break his nose the next day as directed by the Police to cover up this huge racist conspiracy. Lots of things COULD have happened because the police work appears to have been very sloppy. I am not claiming to know what happened. I just think there are gaping holes in the "evidence". This isn't the first claim that I've seen about sloppy police work. I'm a former cop. Not necessarily a fan. Some are very good. Some are criminals in uniform. But I don't see evidence of poor work. Two guys were involved. One is dead. Not much use interviewing him. Forensics says he was shot at close range. The live guy has a story that accounts for that. The phone call to dispatch is consistent with the living guy's story. There appears to be someone who claims they heard calls and saw something consistent with the living guy's story. The living guy's story does not present a crime for which he can be charged. He's sent home. You canvass for witnesses. All wintesses I am aware of corroborate the living guy's story. There's no video that I know of. The only recording is of the living guy trying to cooperate with authorities like a good little citizen. Forensics might show the dead guy was in a struggle and shot. Forensics might show the living guy was in a struggle and fired a weapon. There might be scratch marks and skin tissue consistent with a struggle. What are people looking for when they describe shoddy police investigation? Waterboard the living guy?I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #680 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote He sought medical attention the next day which could have meant as soon as he finished giving the Police his statement. "Could-a" You mean *after* he could have self-inflicted some damage? Yes, I'm sure he had someone smash his head against a sidewalk and break his nose the next day as directed by the Police to cover up this huge racist conspiracy. Lots of things COULD have happened because the police work appears to have been very sloppy. I am not claiming to know what happened. I just think there are gaping holes in the "evidence". You haven't watched much boxing or MMA have you? People get their noses broken all the time and they continue to fight. It would be silly to stop a fight just because someone had their nose broken. The medical records are there to prove if he sought medical attention the next day as has been reported. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #681 March 29, 2012 Don't make up strawmen. I have made my position very clear. Sloppy police work has cast doubt on any version of the sequence of events.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #682 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote He sought medical attention the next day which could have meant as soon as he finished giving the Police his statement. "Could-a" You mean *after* he could have self-inflicted some damage? Yes, I'm sure he had someone smash his head against a sidewalk and break his nose the next day as directed by the Police to cover up this huge racist conspiracy. Lots of things COULD have happened because the police work appears to have been very sloppy. I am not claiming to know what happened. I just think there are gaping holes in the "evidence". You haven't watched much boxing or MMA have you? People get their noses broken all the time and they continue to fight. It would be silly to stop a fight just because someone had their nose broken. The medical records are their if he sought medical attention the next day as has been reported. I believe a DOCTOR is always present at a sanctioned boxing event.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #683 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote He sought medical attention the next day which could have meant as soon as he finished giving the Police his statement. "Could-a" You mean *after* he could have self-inflicted some damage? Yes, I'm sure he had someone smash his head against a sidewalk and break his nose the next day as directed by the Police to cover up this huge racist conspiracy. Lots of things COULD have happened because the police work appears to have been very sloppy. I am not claiming to know what happened. I just think there are gaping holes in the "evidence". You haven't watched much boxing or MMA have you? People get their noses broken all the time and they continue to fight. It would be silly to stop a fight just because someone had their nose broken. The medical records are their if he sought medical attention the next day as has been reported. I believe a DOCTOR is always present at a sanctioned boxing event. Right, and it has been reported that Jorges was treated by medical personell at the scene before being transported to the Police Station. So what was your point again? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davjohns 1 #684 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote People refuse to go to the ER all the time. He didn't refuse first aid, which is what was reported. As I said before: What you guys are suggesting is that the police arrived and in the span of seconds, all came to the conspiracy consensus that they should file false reports. "Hey! You just get here?" "Yeah, why?" "We're gonna set up that little black kid and tell the white guy to tell everyone he was punched in the face. You in?" "But I could lose my job. My career. Go to jail...but you're right... it's just too good to pass up! I'm in. Pass it along." yeah, that sounds much more plausible I'm not suggesting anything. I find it highly suspicious that a guy with a *claimed* head injury is not taken to the ER by the police as SOP. You can't force anyone to go to the hospital. When I was a cop, we had to talk people into going all the time. The guy is handcuffed - he is in police custody. What if he really had a serious head injury such as brain bleeding (which may not manifest itself with symptoms for hours)? He'd have a great civil case against the PD. If your PD held suspects with possible head injuries and did not get them medically examined, your PD was, IMO, delinquent in its duties. You typically handcuff someone in this situation just for safety. You don't know what happened and don't want to take chances. Now, if he is under arrest, you would have to get him examined and cleared by a doc before the jail would take him. That's different. He's pure custodial arrest at that point. If you just have him cuffed for safety and then release him, you can't make him submit to medical attention. In this case, there doesn't appear to have been any reason to arrest him. There was only one story. It was uncontestested. It didn't present a criminal act.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #685 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote He sought medical attention the next day which could have meant as soon as he finished giving the Police his statement. "Could-a" You mean *after* he could have self-inflicted some damage? Yes, I'm sure he had someone smash his head against a sidewalk and break his nose the next day as directed by the Police to cover up this huge racist conspiracy. Lots of things COULD have happened because the police work appears to have been very sloppy. I am not claiming to know what happened. I just think there are gaping holes in the "evidence". You haven't watched much boxing or MMA have you? People get their noses broken all the time and they continue to fight. It would be silly to stop a fight just because someone had their nose broken. The medical records are their if he sought medical attention the next day as has been reported. I believe a DOCTOR is always present at a sanctioned boxing event. Right, and it has been reported that Jorges was treated by medical personell at the scene before being transported to the Police Station. So what was your point again? It has also been reported that he did NOT go to the ER until well after he was released.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #686 March 29, 2012 Quote Nice of you to admit to the trolling. "Paging Capt. Slog....Paging Capt. Slog......" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites devildog 0 #687 March 29, 2012 The paramedics came, checked him out, and likely said, "Do you want to go to the ER" and he likely said, "No." Happens *ALL* the time from fights to car wrecks. Nothing suspicious about it.You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites devildog 0 #688 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote He sought medical attention the next day which could have meant as soon as he finished giving the Police his statement. "Could-a" You mean *after* he could have self-inflicted some damage? Yes, I'm sure he had someone smash his head against a sidewalk and break his nose the next day as directed by the Police to cover up this huge racist conspiracy. Lots of things COULD have happened because the police work appears to have been very sloppy. I am not claiming to know what happened. I just think there are gaping holes in the "evidence". You haven't watched much boxing or MMA have you? People get their noses broken all the time and they continue to fight. It would be silly to stop a fight just because someone had their nose broken. The medical records are their if he sought medical attention the next day as has been reported. I believe a DOCTOR is always present at a sanctioned boxing event. Right, and it has been reported that Jorges was treated by medical personell at the scene before being transported to the Police Station. So what was your point again? It has also been reported that he did NOT go to the ER until well after he was released. So what? They can't force him to go after he was released. And he obviously can't go while they are talking to him. He probably felt okay, and after all the crap he had just gone through, wanted to go home and I dunno...have a shower? Sleep? Eat? I doubt he really wanted to run to the ER and wait in line for hours.You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites devildog 0 #689 March 29, 2012 And FWIW, http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/ thought that might have been an injury as well when I first watched it. Hard to tell what it is because the resolution is so crappy.You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DougH 270 #690 March 29, 2012 Quote Don't make up strawmen. I have made my position very clear. Sloppy police work has cast doubt on any version of the sequence of events. Ahhhhhhh, there we go, the strawman/men comment that you pull out any time you don't want to answer a question. It isn't a strawman, and in fact you introduced the subject: Quote He sure didn't look like someone who'd been beaten up to the extent of believing his life in danger. If his injuries were so bad (broken nose, cuts), why wasn't he taken to an emergency room? You have already stated that in your opinion there is some standard of abuse that some one needs to take before they can use self defense. I pointed out that the standard for self defense is not harm incurred, it is the capacity to cause harm. I don't think anyone is the forum would volunteer to have their head bashed into a concrete sidewalk, not even one time, because they are bright enough to know that you can get seriously hurt. Answer this question, do you think you can get seriously hurt by having your head bashed into a side walk?"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites muff528 3 #691 March 29, 2012 All this "evidence" nonsense is completely irrelevant. Too many very highly-placed and very powerful people, including politicians, media and "advocacy" groups among others, are already way too heavily invested in a particular outcome for any of that to matter. Even if by some long-shot stroke of chance Zimmerman is somehow able to get a fair trial and is exonerated, he (and maybe members of his family) will always be a target. He's done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jclalor 12 #692 March 29, 2012 QuoteQuoteThe paramedics came, checked him out, and likely said, "Do you want to go to the ER" and he likely said, "No." Happens *ALL* the time from fights to car wrecks. Nothing suspicious about it. It happens all the time with injuries that do not have the potential for a TBI. When a head injury happens, the police have a duty to transport. Not to mention to have all the wounds indexed for any future legal proceedings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #693 March 29, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe paramedics came, checked him out, and likely said, "Do you want to go to the ER" and he likely said, "No." Happens *ALL* the time from fights to car wrecks. Nothing suspicious about it. It happens all the time with injuries that do not have the potential for a TBI. When a head injury happens, the police have a duty to transport. Not to mention to have all the wounds indexed for any future legal proceedings. It's been reported that paramedics checked him out at the scene and that he refused to go to the hospital at that time. Apparently, later he did seek medical attention. I'm sure all of this is well documented. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rick 67 #694 March 29, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe paramedics came, checked him out, and likely said, "Do you want to go to the ER" and he likely said, "No." Happens *ALL* the time from fights to car wrecks. Nothing suspicious about it. It happens all the time with injuries that do not have the potential for a TBI. When a head injury happens, the police have a duty to transport. Not to mention to have all the wounds indexed for any future legal proceedings. Maybe you should be writing policy for all PD's. What you think is their "duty" is irrelevant.You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #695 March 29, 2012 QuoteThere was only one story. It was uncontestested. It didn't present a criminal act. Really means nothing until you see records from the paramedics. But, if Zimemrman's claim is that he was attacked, punched in the nose and had his head bashed into the ground and he fired his gun in self defence, would you not want to document some of the evidence pertaining to this struggle? Specially since the other party to the fight can't talk. I am not saying such evidence doesn't exist at this point. However, if it doesn't exist, some cop did extremely poor work, or there is some serious doubt on Zimmerman's story of how this infolded. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jclalor 12 #696 March 29, 2012 Maybe you should be writing policy for all PD's. What you think is their "duty" is irrelevant. A homicide has just occurred, the shooter is reporting that he has had his nose broken along with his head slammed against the ground. He was then placed under arrest, and not transported to a hospital. When your in police custody, the police, if for no other reason than to cover their own ass, know this and will take you to get looked at by an MD Have yet to see one Talking head cop on tv sat what a great job the local PD did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #678 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote People refuse to go to the ER all the time. He didn't refuse first aid, which is what was reported. As I said before: What you guys are suggesting is that the police arrived and in the span of seconds, all came to the conspiracy consensus that they should file false reports. "Hey! You just get here?" "Yeah, why?" "We're gonna set up that little black kid and tell the white guy to tell everyone he was punched in the face. You in?" "But I could lose my job. My career. Go to jail...but you're right... it's just too good to pass up! I'm in. Pass it along." yeah, that sounds much more plausible I'm not suggesting anything. I find it highly suspicious that a guy with a *claimed* head injury is not taken to the ER by the police as SOP. You can't force anyone to go to the hospital. When I was a cop, we had to talk people into going all the time. The guy is handcuffed - he is in police custody. What if he really had a serious head injury such as brain bleeding (which may not manifest itself with symptoms for hours)? He'd have a great civil case against the PD. If your PD held suspects with possible head injuries and did not get them medically examined, your PD was, IMO, delinquent in its duties.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #679 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote He sought medical attention the next day which could have meant as soon as he finished giving the Police his statement. "Could-a" You mean *after* he could have self-inflicted some damage? Yes, I'm sure he had someone smash his head against a sidewalk and break his nose the next day as directed by the Police to cover up this huge racist conspiracy. Lots of things COULD have happened because the police work appears to have been very sloppy. I am not claiming to know what happened. I just think there are gaping holes in the "evidence". This isn't the first claim that I've seen about sloppy police work. I'm a former cop. Not necessarily a fan. Some are very good. Some are criminals in uniform. But I don't see evidence of poor work. Two guys were involved. One is dead. Not much use interviewing him. Forensics says he was shot at close range. The live guy has a story that accounts for that. The phone call to dispatch is consistent with the living guy's story. There appears to be someone who claims they heard calls and saw something consistent with the living guy's story. The living guy's story does not present a crime for which he can be charged. He's sent home. You canvass for witnesses. All wintesses I am aware of corroborate the living guy's story. There's no video that I know of. The only recording is of the living guy trying to cooperate with authorities like a good little citizen. Forensics might show the dead guy was in a struggle and shot. Forensics might show the living guy was in a struggle and fired a weapon. There might be scratch marks and skin tissue consistent with a struggle. What are people looking for when they describe shoddy police investigation? Waterboard the living guy?I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #680 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote He sought medical attention the next day which could have meant as soon as he finished giving the Police his statement. "Could-a" You mean *after* he could have self-inflicted some damage? Yes, I'm sure he had someone smash his head against a sidewalk and break his nose the next day as directed by the Police to cover up this huge racist conspiracy. Lots of things COULD have happened because the police work appears to have been very sloppy. I am not claiming to know what happened. I just think there are gaping holes in the "evidence". You haven't watched much boxing or MMA have you? People get their noses broken all the time and they continue to fight. It would be silly to stop a fight just because someone had their nose broken. The medical records are there to prove if he sought medical attention the next day as has been reported. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #681 March 29, 2012 Don't make up strawmen. I have made my position very clear. Sloppy police work has cast doubt on any version of the sequence of events.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #682 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote He sought medical attention the next day which could have meant as soon as he finished giving the Police his statement. "Could-a" You mean *after* he could have self-inflicted some damage? Yes, I'm sure he had someone smash his head against a sidewalk and break his nose the next day as directed by the Police to cover up this huge racist conspiracy. Lots of things COULD have happened because the police work appears to have been very sloppy. I am not claiming to know what happened. I just think there are gaping holes in the "evidence". You haven't watched much boxing or MMA have you? People get their noses broken all the time and they continue to fight. It would be silly to stop a fight just because someone had their nose broken. The medical records are their if he sought medical attention the next day as has been reported. I believe a DOCTOR is always present at a sanctioned boxing event.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #683 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote He sought medical attention the next day which could have meant as soon as he finished giving the Police his statement. "Could-a" You mean *after* he could have self-inflicted some damage? Yes, I'm sure he had someone smash his head against a sidewalk and break his nose the next day as directed by the Police to cover up this huge racist conspiracy. Lots of things COULD have happened because the police work appears to have been very sloppy. I am not claiming to know what happened. I just think there are gaping holes in the "evidence". You haven't watched much boxing or MMA have you? People get their noses broken all the time and they continue to fight. It would be silly to stop a fight just because someone had their nose broken. The medical records are their if he sought medical attention the next day as has been reported. I believe a DOCTOR is always present at a sanctioned boxing event. Right, and it has been reported that Jorges was treated by medical personell at the scene before being transported to the Police Station. So what was your point again? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #684 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote People refuse to go to the ER all the time. He didn't refuse first aid, which is what was reported. As I said before: What you guys are suggesting is that the police arrived and in the span of seconds, all came to the conspiracy consensus that they should file false reports. "Hey! You just get here?" "Yeah, why?" "We're gonna set up that little black kid and tell the white guy to tell everyone he was punched in the face. You in?" "But I could lose my job. My career. Go to jail...but you're right... it's just too good to pass up! I'm in. Pass it along." yeah, that sounds much more plausible I'm not suggesting anything. I find it highly suspicious that a guy with a *claimed* head injury is not taken to the ER by the police as SOP. You can't force anyone to go to the hospital. When I was a cop, we had to talk people into going all the time. The guy is handcuffed - he is in police custody. What if he really had a serious head injury such as brain bleeding (which may not manifest itself with symptoms for hours)? He'd have a great civil case against the PD. If your PD held suspects with possible head injuries and did not get them medically examined, your PD was, IMO, delinquent in its duties. You typically handcuff someone in this situation just for safety. You don't know what happened and don't want to take chances. Now, if he is under arrest, you would have to get him examined and cleared by a doc before the jail would take him. That's different. He's pure custodial arrest at that point. If you just have him cuffed for safety and then release him, you can't make him submit to medical attention. In this case, there doesn't appear to have been any reason to arrest him. There was only one story. It was uncontestested. It didn't present a criminal act.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #685 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote He sought medical attention the next day which could have meant as soon as he finished giving the Police his statement. "Could-a" You mean *after* he could have self-inflicted some damage? Yes, I'm sure he had someone smash his head against a sidewalk and break his nose the next day as directed by the Police to cover up this huge racist conspiracy. Lots of things COULD have happened because the police work appears to have been very sloppy. I am not claiming to know what happened. I just think there are gaping holes in the "evidence". You haven't watched much boxing or MMA have you? People get their noses broken all the time and they continue to fight. It would be silly to stop a fight just because someone had their nose broken. The medical records are their if he sought medical attention the next day as has been reported. I believe a DOCTOR is always present at a sanctioned boxing event. Right, and it has been reported that Jorges was treated by medical personell at the scene before being transported to the Police Station. So what was your point again? It has also been reported that he did NOT go to the ER until well after he was released.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #686 March 29, 2012 Quote Nice of you to admit to the trolling. "Paging Capt. Slog....Paging Capt. Slog......" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #687 March 29, 2012 The paramedics came, checked him out, and likely said, "Do you want to go to the ER" and he likely said, "No." Happens *ALL* the time from fights to car wrecks. Nothing suspicious about it.You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #688 March 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote He sought medical attention the next day which could have meant as soon as he finished giving the Police his statement. "Could-a" You mean *after* he could have self-inflicted some damage? Yes, I'm sure he had someone smash his head against a sidewalk and break his nose the next day as directed by the Police to cover up this huge racist conspiracy. Lots of things COULD have happened because the police work appears to have been very sloppy. I am not claiming to know what happened. I just think there are gaping holes in the "evidence". You haven't watched much boxing or MMA have you? People get their noses broken all the time and they continue to fight. It would be silly to stop a fight just because someone had their nose broken. The medical records are their if he sought medical attention the next day as has been reported. I believe a DOCTOR is always present at a sanctioned boxing event. Right, and it has been reported that Jorges was treated by medical personell at the scene before being transported to the Police Station. So what was your point again? It has also been reported that he did NOT go to the ER until well after he was released. So what? They can't force him to go after he was released. And he obviously can't go while they are talking to him. He probably felt okay, and after all the crap he had just gone through, wanted to go home and I dunno...have a shower? Sleep? Eat? I doubt he really wanted to run to the ER and wait in line for hours.You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #689 March 29, 2012 And FWIW, http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/ thought that might have been an injury as well when I first watched it. Hard to tell what it is because the resolution is so crappy.You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #690 March 29, 2012 Quote Don't make up strawmen. I have made my position very clear. Sloppy police work has cast doubt on any version of the sequence of events. Ahhhhhhh, there we go, the strawman/men comment that you pull out any time you don't want to answer a question. It isn't a strawman, and in fact you introduced the subject: Quote He sure didn't look like someone who'd been beaten up to the extent of believing his life in danger. If his injuries were so bad (broken nose, cuts), why wasn't he taken to an emergency room? You have already stated that in your opinion there is some standard of abuse that some one needs to take before they can use self defense. I pointed out that the standard for self defense is not harm incurred, it is the capacity to cause harm. I don't think anyone is the forum would volunteer to have their head bashed into a concrete sidewalk, not even one time, because they are bright enough to know that you can get seriously hurt. Answer this question, do you think you can get seriously hurt by having your head bashed into a side walk?"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #691 March 29, 2012 All this "evidence" nonsense is completely irrelevant. Too many very highly-placed and very powerful people, including politicians, media and "advocacy" groups among others, are already way too heavily invested in a particular outcome for any of that to matter. Even if by some long-shot stroke of chance Zimmerman is somehow able to get a fair trial and is exonerated, he (and maybe members of his family) will always be a target. He's done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #692 March 29, 2012 QuoteQuoteThe paramedics came, checked him out, and likely said, "Do you want to go to the ER" and he likely said, "No." Happens *ALL* the time from fights to car wrecks. Nothing suspicious about it. It happens all the time with injuries that do not have the potential for a TBI. When a head injury happens, the police have a duty to transport. Not to mention to have all the wounds indexed for any future legal proceedings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #693 March 29, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe paramedics came, checked him out, and likely said, "Do you want to go to the ER" and he likely said, "No." Happens *ALL* the time from fights to car wrecks. Nothing suspicious about it. It happens all the time with injuries that do not have the potential for a TBI. When a head injury happens, the police have a duty to transport. Not to mention to have all the wounds indexed for any future legal proceedings. It's been reported that paramedics checked him out at the scene and that he refused to go to the hospital at that time. Apparently, later he did seek medical attention. I'm sure all of this is well documented. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #694 March 29, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe paramedics came, checked him out, and likely said, "Do you want to go to the ER" and he likely said, "No." Happens *ALL* the time from fights to car wrecks. Nothing suspicious about it. It happens all the time with injuries that do not have the potential for a TBI. When a head injury happens, the police have a duty to transport. Not to mention to have all the wounds indexed for any future legal proceedings. Maybe you should be writing policy for all PD's. What you think is their "duty" is irrelevant.You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #695 March 29, 2012 QuoteThere was only one story. It was uncontestested. It didn't present a criminal act. Really means nothing until you see records from the paramedics. But, if Zimemrman's claim is that he was attacked, punched in the nose and had his head bashed into the ground and he fired his gun in self defence, would you not want to document some of the evidence pertaining to this struggle? Specially since the other party to the fight can't talk. I am not saying such evidence doesn't exist at this point. However, if it doesn't exist, some cop did extremely poor work, or there is some serious doubt on Zimmerman's story of how this infolded. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #696 March 29, 2012 Maybe you should be writing policy for all PD's. What you think is their "duty" is irrelevant. A homicide has just occurred, the shooter is reporting that he has had his nose broken along with his head slammed against the ground. He was then placed under arrest, and not transported to a hospital. When your in police custody, the police, if for no other reason than to cover their own ass, know this and will take you to get looked at by an MD Have yet to see one Talking head cop on tv sat what a great job the local PD did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #697 March 29, 2012 Quote Maybe you should be writing policy for all PD's. What you think is their "duty" is irrelevant. A homicide has just occurred, the shooter is reporting that he has had his nose broken along with his head slammed against the ground. He was then placed under arrest, and not transported to a hospital. When your in police custody, the police, if for no other reason than to cover their own ass, know this and will take you to get looked at by an MD I don't believe he was evern placed under arrest. I believe he was simply detained for questioning. I don't believe the Police can force you to seek medical attention under these circumstances. keep in mind, he was checked out by paramedics. Quote Have yet to see one Talking head cop on tv sat what a great job the local PD did. Well, there you have it. Because most cops are willing to wait until all the facts are in before commenting, this must mean they think the investigation was botchd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #698 March 29, 2012 Quote If I thought the guy was a real threat and I was scared for my life,hell yes, I would say thats a good reason to bug the cops. And being a 17 year old fit football player... I'd most likely run like hell and put as much distance between me and the other guy as I could. Mr Miaggi, "Best defense, don't be there" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #699 March 29, 2012 QuoteUhm no, thats not what the news is reporting. 1. Vandalizing school property 2. tardiness and truancy 3. trace amounts of MJ in an empty bag. The jewelery was confiscated, he was not suspended for it, nor has it ever been established if the jewelery was stolen The news report here in the local paper (Miami) said that he was suspended for the jewelry. Of course this would not be the first time that the media reported something that was later not substantiated. But this is still more than the "peaceful protest" you claimed he was suspended for earlier. And vandalizing school property, truancy, and (according to the local paper) not only an empty bag, but also a pipe with resin..... Should remove the "good school kid" image the media and others were trying to paint of this kid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #700 March 29, 2012 QuoteAnd being a 17 year old fit football player... I'd most likely run like hell and put as much distance between me and the other guy as I could. Mr Miaggi, "Best defense, don't be there" So, why didn't he? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
