Illegal alien question

[wmw999 2,452]

If it's OK to shoot criminals, does that make it open season on illegal aliens walking down the street?

After all, according to many, they are criminals. If they resist "citizen's arrest" can they rightfully be shot?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[D22369 0]

1) you dont have the right to force them to show identification to prove whether they are here legally and since you cannot tell merely by looking which ones are legal or not this question is silly

2) walking down the street hardly makes them a threat

3) jumping someone you believe is illegal and placing them under citizens arrest is a good way to get your ass kicked, shot, stabbed or to get yourself arrested.

even when they are here illegally and automatically breaking a law by their presence - which does make them a criminal it doesnt justify deadly force


Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[JohnRich 4]

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If it's OK to shoot criminals, does that make it open season on illegal aliens walking down the street?

The question is invalid because the premise is incorrect - it is NOT okay to shoot criminals, just because they're criminals. They have to be doing something that threatens harm to others, like rape, robbery, assault or arson, before shooting them would be justified. And if they're doing one of those things, it doesn't matter whether they're legal or illegal citizens - their citizenship status is irrelevant.

[jgoose71 0]

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If it's OK to shoot criminals, does that make it open season on illegal aliens walking down the street?

The question is invalid because the premise is incorrect - it is NOT okay to shoot criminals, just because they're criminals. They have to be doing something that threatens harm to others, like rape, robbery, assault or arson, before shooting them would be justified. And if they're doing one of those things, it doesn't matter whether they're legal or illegal citizens - their citizenship status is irrelevant.

+1

You have the right to protect your self. I'm pretty sure in most states they still arrest vigilantes, lynch mobs, and such.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[masterrig 1]

I'll take a wild guess and say no. If, a person is absolutely certain a person is here in this country illegally, I'd say, call Border Patrol and let them sort it out. 'Assuming' someone is here illegally and attempting to detain them for authorities is not a good idea. Let Border Patrol handle things. That's why they make the big bucks.


Chuck

[RonD1120 62]

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If it's OK to shoot criminals, does that make it open season on illegal aliens walking down the street?

After all, according to many, they are criminals. If they resist "citizen's arrest" can they rightfully be shot?

Wendy P.

From my understanding of the Castle Doctrine and the Stand Your Ground Law, the prerequisite is fear of your life or bodily harm. Criminal status alone is not reason enough to use deadly force.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[davjohns 1]

I did a little research this weekend. I couldn't find the actual wording of the so called, 'castle doctrine' law. Just lots of rhetoric about what someone's interpretation of it is.

The Castle Doctrine theory says that a person's home is their castle. They do not have to try to flee their home to avoid an intruder. That's all. You must still have reasonable fear of death or severe bodily injury to yourself or another before using deadly force.

I have seen rheotric that says the WI law is just that. I have seen rhetoric that it is something different. I couldn't find a link to the actual wording. I will reserve judgment on the WI law until I can see the facts.

If it is a true castle doctrine, it is perfectly just. It puts the responsibility for creating a bad situation on the criminal. It has been the law in most states for most of this country's existance. I suspect this is another anti-gun owner attack based on the unsubstantiated claims.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[davjohns 1]

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If it's OK to shoot criminals, does that make it open season on illegal aliens walking down the street?

After all, according to many, they are criminals. If they resist "citizen's arrest" can they rightfully be shot?

Wendy P.

The answer to your question is an unmitigated "YES".

Illegal aliens are criminals. It's in the name. That's why some people want to pretend they are really 'undocumented immigrants'.

Therefore, IF it is legal to shoot all criminals on sight, it is legal to shoot illegal aliens on sight.

However, in the real world, I do not know of a place where it is legal to shoot criminals on sight.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[RonD1120 62]

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I did a little research this weekend. I couldn't find the actual wording of the so called, 'castle doctrine' law. Just lots of rhetoric about what someone's interpretation of it is.

The Castle Doctrine theory says that a person's home is their castle. They do not have to try to flee their home to avoid an intruder. That's all. You must still have reasonable fear of death or severe bodily injury to yourself or another before using deadly force.

I have seen rheotric that says the WI law is just that. I have seen rhetoric that it is something different. I couldn't find a link to the actual wording. I will reserve judgment on the WI law until I can see the facts.

If it is a true castle doctrine, it is perfectly just. It puts the responsibility for creating a bad situation on the criminal. It has been the law in most states for most of this country's existance. I suspect this is another anti-gun owner attack based on the unsubstantiated claims.

That is my understanding as well. Thanks for doing some research and sharing.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Andy9o8 2]

I don't see why not, so long as the carcass is not wasted. that way we have a choice- either use them to harvest food, or harvest them for food. It's a win-win for everyone!

[jgoose71 0]

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I don't see why not, so long as the carcass is not wasted. that way we have a choice- either use them to harvest food, or harvest them for food. It's a win-win for everyone!

Leave it to Andy to introduce the "Soylent Green doctrine"

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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If it's OK to shoot criminals, does that make it open season on illegal aliens walking down the street?

After all, according to many, they are criminals. If they resist "citizen's arrest" can they rightfully be shot?

Wendy P.

No.

But what you do is you follow them and hope they get annoyed enough to confront you. Then just shoot them in self defence.

[DougH 270]

No no, you can't get them to just confont you. You have to get them to sucker punch you, knock you down, jump on you, and smash your head into a concrete side walk. Then you can shoot them.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Skyrad 0]

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If it's OK to shoot criminals, does that make it open season on illegal aliens walking down the street?

After all, according to many, they are criminals. If they resist "citizen's arrest" can they rightfully be shot?

Wendy P.

You mean like E.T or ALF? Personally I think thats a sucky way of greeting aliens, after all its a big universe and they've come here all that distance. Its hardly their fault if the US Gov doesn't have a visa system in place for them. Sheesh, you Yanks worry about some funny things.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[masterrig 1]

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If it's OK to shoot criminals, does that make it open season on illegal aliens walking down the street?

After all, according to many, they are criminals. If they resist "citizen's arrest" can they rightfully be shot?

Wendy P.

You mean like E.T or ALF? Personally I think thats a sucky way of greeting aliens, after all its a big universe and they've come here all that distance. Its hardly their fault if the US Gov doesn't have a visa system in place for them. Sheesh, you Yanks worry about some funny things.

It's our country and we should worry about who enters it! This 'just let everybody in... no questions' attitude is a crock of crap!


Chuck

[Skyrad 0]

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If it's OK to shoot criminals, does that make it open season on illegal aliens walking down the street?

After all, according to many, they are criminals. If they resist "citizen's arrest" can they rightfully be shot?

Wendy P.

You mean like E.T or ALF? Personally I think thats a sucky way of greeting aliens, after all its a big universe and they've come here all that distance. Its hardly their fault if the US Gov doesn't have a visa system in place for them. Sheesh, you Yanks worry about some funny things.

It's our country and we should worry about who enters it! This 'just let everybody in... no questions' attitude is a crock of crap!


Chuck

But they come in peace? Whats the big deal? Don't tell me you have a problem even with the friendly ones, what do you want to do with them, cut their brains out? Lock them up in Area 51?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[billvon 2,996]

>It's our country and we should worry about who enters it!

Honestly I am just as worried about the people who already live here as the people who enter (and exit) it.

>This 'just let everybody in... no questions' attitude is a crock of crap!

I think we should let anyone in who wants to come here to work. Only disqualifier should be convicted criminals.

[SivaGanesha 2]

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I think we should let anyone in who wants to come here to work. Only disqualifier should be convicted criminals.

As someone who tends to think like a libertarian, in theory I'd prefer if this was how it worked.

In practice there are problems, of course. One is if this privilege isn't granted, on a reciprocal basis, to Americans wanting to work in the other country. If it isn't reciprocal, you have a situation where the foreigners have access to both labor markets whereas the Americans (unless dual citizens) have access only to one labor market. That isn't a situation that Congress, sworn to represent the interests of US citizens, should be supporting.

Additionally, even if someone isn't a convicted criminal, they might have other less than savory reasons for coming. They could be escaping other legitimate obligations in their home country--eg child support or legitimate taxes. Or they could be a criminal who hasn't been caught yet and they are hoping to escape to the USA before the local authorities catch up with them.

Finally there is the issue that some would say that, in general, people should abide by laws even if they don't agree with them. So illegal aliens who are already here have broken a law by coming here--true, it might arguably be a bad law--so that doesn't bode well for them staying.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[masterrig 1]

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If it's OK to shoot criminals, does that make it open season on illegal aliens walking down the street?

After all, according to many, they are criminals. If they resist "citizen's arrest" can they rightfully be shot?

Wendy P.

You mean like E.T or ALF? Personally I think thats a sucky way of greeting aliens, after all its a big universe and they've come here all that distance. Its hardly their fault if the US Gov doesn't have a visa system in place for them. Sheesh, you Yanks worry about some funny things.

It's our country and we should worry about who enters it! This 'just let everybody in... no questions' attitude is a crock of crap!


Chuck

But they come in peace? Whats the big deal? Don't tell me you have a problem even with the friendly ones, what do you want to do with them, cut their brains out? Lock them up in Area 51?

That's just silly. No,I don't have a problem with the 'good ones' just let them do it LEGALLY!!! That's all.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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>It's our country and we should worry about who enters it!

Honestly I am just as worried about the people who already live here as the people who enter (and exit) it.

>This 'just let everybody in... no questions' attitude is a crock of crap!

I think we should let anyone in who wants to come here to work. Only disqualifier should be convicted criminals.

Two little words... background check.


Chuck

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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I did a little research this weekend. I couldn't find the actual wording of the so called, 'castle doctrine' law. Just lots of rhetoric about what someone's interpretation of it is...

...I have seen rheotric that says the WI law is just that. I have seen rhetoric that it is something different. I couldn't find a link to the actual wording. I will reserve judgment on the WI law until I can see the facts...

The best write up of it that I could find comes from the Wisconsin Bar Association.

http://www.wisbar.org/am/template.cfm?section=Legislative_Advocacy&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&Contentid=106889

In short:

Someone making a forced, unlawful entry into a persons home is presumed to have intent of inflicting great bodily injury or death.
The forced entry in and of itself gives the home occupant that legal standing.

Even if retreat were practical or possible, a home occupant isn't required to retreat in the face of a threat.

There are also some civil law provisions that make it harder for a criminal to go after the home occupant.

Interestingly, the latest issue of American Rifleman (the NRA magazine) had an article on Castle Doctrine.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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It's our country and we should worry about who enters it! This 'just let everybody in... no questions' attitude is a crock of crap!

When the last of my ancestors came over everyone was welcome except the Chinese. That seemed to work pretty well for us (the open borders, not the Chinese Exclusion Act).

[Skyrad 0]

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If it's OK to shoot criminals, does that make it open season on illegal aliens walking down the street?

After all, according to many, they are criminals. If they resist "citizen's arrest" can they rightfully be shot?

Wendy P.

You mean like E.T or ALF? Personally I think thats a sucky way of greeting aliens, after all its a big universe and they've come here all that distance. Its hardly their fault if the US Gov doesn't have a visa system in place for them. Sheesh, you Yanks worry about some funny things.

It's our country and we should worry about who enters it! This 'just let everybody in... no questions' attitude is a crock of crap!


Chuck

But they come in peace? Whats the big deal? Don't tell me you have a problem even with the friendly ones, what do you want to do with them, cut their brains out? Lock them up in Area 51?

That's just silly. No,I don't have a problem with the 'good ones' just let them do it LEGALLY!!! That's all.


Chuck

Well this illegal alien was was worried that is what would happen to him if he got caught.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyJo6ESSiMY

Why is it that aliens only ever seem to visit the USA? We occasionally get some unexplained lights in the sky but we never have a problem with illegal aliens at least not on the scale that this tread implies. Strange.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[masterrig 1]

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It's our country and we should worry about who enters it! This 'just let everybody in... no questions' attitude is a crock of crap!

When the last of my ancestors came over everyone was welcome except the Chinese. That seemed to work pretty well for us (the open borders, not the Chinese Exclusion Act).

That was then. Times have changed.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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If it's OK to shoot criminals, does that make it open season on illegal aliens walking down the street?

After all, according to many, they are criminals. If they resist "citizen's arrest" can they rightfully be shot?

Wendy P.

You mean like E.T or ALF? Personally I think thats a sucky way of greeting aliens, after all its a big universe and they've come here all that distance. Its hardly their fault if the US Gov doesn't have a visa system in place for them. Sheesh, you Yanks worry about some funny things.

It's our country and we should worry about who enters it! This 'just let everybody in... no questions' attitude is a crock of crap!


Chuck

But they come in peace? Whats the big deal? Don't tell me you have a problem even with the friendly ones, what do you want to do with them, cut their brains out? Lock them up in Area 51?

That's just silly. No,I don't have a problem with the 'good ones' just let them do it LEGALLY!!! That's all.


Chuck

Well this illegal alien was was worried that is what would happen to him if he got caught.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyJo6ESSiMY

Why is it that aliens only ever seem to visit the USA? We occasionally get some unexplained lights in the sky but we never have a problem with illegal aliens at least not on the scale that this tread implies. Strange.

Not so. Australia, England and a few others.


Chuck