I have jobs, but no one wants them

[shah269 0]

W/O using the words lazy, what do you guys think?
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/smallbusiness/1203/gallery.employees/index.html

Quote

And we offer a competitive wage: $8.50 to $9.50 an hour. The $8.50 is just the starting wage. After 90 days we increase it to $9.50 to $10 an hour.

But many people add up their constantly renewed unemployment, food stamps and housing assistance and realize that they can make as much not working, as working.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[quade 4]

The guy who wrote that is a f'in idiot. It appears as if he doesn't realise there is an infinite range of compensations between what he's offering and his sarcastic $100/hr figure.

Few people are asking for $100/hr.

Just make the rate more attractive by a small percentage and he can pick and choose who he pleases. Supply and demand. Simple.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DougH 270]

It isn't simple supply and demand because there are outside influences in the market.

Any time you have price floors (say minimum wage) or artifical alternatives (say unemployment insurance) you are no longer dealing with simple supply and demand.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[quade 4]

Sure you are.

The potential employees are weighing the difference between what you're willing to pay vs what they can get through other means.

It's no different than any other financial transaction.

People will almost always attempt to do what is right for themselves rather than the other guy. Sure, this guy might "think" the wages hes offering are competitive when looked at by one single metric, perhaps what some other employer down the road is offering, but in this case, the employer doesn't seem to understand the wages he's offering are obviously not competitive when all factors are being looked at.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DougH 270]

No there is a big difference:

it is that little entity that is called the Federal government, who by all rational measures has no costs of input in the short run since they can run up debt on the largest credit line known to man, and print money.

I am not saying that the market is completely flawed, that would be as equally as crazy as the argument that you are making that the market is completely open and relies soley on simple supply and demand.

Show me another wage supplier that can tap a massive credit line unlimitedly despite being in dire financial condition. Not one single one, when business gets bad the credit dries up (to various degrees) for every business except uncle sam.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[quade 4]

Except...it does.

Look, minimum wage isn't the issue here. He's already above that.

The problem is he's not looking at a lager picture that goes beyond it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DougH 270]

I didn't say that minimum wage was the issue here, I only stated that its mere presence alters the market. I never made any conclusion in any direction except for the claim that we are dealing with pure supply and demand is hooey.

I also stated that the mere existence of a artifical alternative to a paying job offered by a supplier that doesn't operate at all like a private company means that we aren't dealing with pure supply and demand.

Please at least debate what I actually said:

Please show me a supplier in the job market that can act like government in short term.

-Print money.
-Tap endless credit lines with marginal interest costs and no debt covenants. Despite being in terrible fiscal condition in terrible market conditions.
-Pay employees without receiving a single direct benefit in return which would be actual work.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[davjohns 1]

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Except...it does.

Look, minimum wage isn't the issue here. He's already above that.

The problem is he's not looking at a lager picture that goes beyond it.

I agree. He's not recognizing that he is in competition with the government which he pays for. So, he's subsidizing his competition and can not win. Thus, the end of small business...the largest employer of Americans.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

The guy who wrote that is a f'in idiot. It appears as if he doesn't realise there is an infinite range of compensations between what he's offering and his sarcastic $100/hr figure.

Few people are asking for $100/hr.

Just make the rate more attractive by a small percentage and he can pick and choose who he pleases. Supply and demand. Simple.

if he pays $20/hr to the simplest job in his factory, he's going to have the raise the wages of the other 60 employees.

When the economy is booming, these are hard jobs to fill. And when you can get two years of unemployment, same thing.

It's a bit presumptuous for you to call him an idiot - he's running the business, not you.

[quade 4]

Who said $20?

It's a bit presumptions for you to think that's the numer I was suggesting.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[shah269 0]

So the discussion is what is a "working" wage?
The idea is that unemployment should be such that you are uncomfortable but not destitute and stealing from others so that you may live.
However minimum wage is designed to be a step above unemployment benefits?
Thus perhaps it can be argued that the system is now upside down?
That one is better off financially being unemployed than gainfully employed at minimum wage?
Sadly I may have to agree, especially when you take into account the various health and nutritional benefits.

And before you start ranting against unemployment benefits, please look around the safe secure nation we live in, this is greatly impart due to our unemployment system.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Who said $20?

It's a bit presumptions for you to think that's the numer I was suggesting.

if 8-10 isn't getting it done, 12 won't either. You complained that he jumped to 100.

But any increase has the same inflationary effect on the other salaries.

[DougH 270]

Quote

Who said $20?

It's a bit presumptions for you to think that's the numer I was suggesting.

So after you claimed that an argument I never made was false you aren't going to bother to address my question to you?

Keep it classy!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[quade 4]

You didn't ask me any question.

Questions, as you may recall from elementary school English, end in question marks.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DougH 270]

Keep it classy!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[airdvr 210]

We are creating a permanently dependent class of people in the country who won't ever want to work again Agreed.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[DougH 270]

No question mark (that symbol looks like this ??? not this .). That makes you a buffoon, and he won't lower himself to anwser you. Besides he is to busy debating the simple supply and demand of question marks with elementary school students.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[billvon 2,991]

>Please show me a supplier in the job market that can act like government in short term.

>-Print money.
>-Tap endless credit lines with marginal interest costs and no debt covenants. Despite being in terrible fiscal condition in terrible market conditions.
>-Pay employees without receiving a single direct benefit in return which would be actual work.

I agree with you that the government does all that. But as I am sure you are aware there are also companies who:

-"print money" (i.e. just borrow more when they're behind)
-tap seemingly endless lines of credit, despite being in terrible condition
-pay employees who seem to do no discernible work.

I used to work for one - Grumman Aerospace.

[DougH 270]

Quote

>Please show me a supplier in the job market that can act like government in short term.

>-Print money.
>-Tap endless credit lines with marginal interest costs and no debt covenants. Despite being in terrible fiscal condition in terrible market conditions.
>-Pay employees without receiving a single direct benefit in return which would be actual work.

I agree with you that the government does all that. But as I am sure you are aware there are also companies who:

-"print money" (i.e. just borrow more when they're behind)
-tap seemingly endless lines of credit, despite being in terrible condition
-pay employees who seem to do no discernible work.

I used to work for one - Grumman Aerospace.

No doubt to some degree there are similarities but they can't do it to the scale of the Federal government.

Grumman employed some employees who seem to do no discernibly work. They did not employee an entire work force the did zero work, no company in the job market does that for all of its employees. In comparison none of the recipients of emergency unemployment provide a direct service to the Federal government in exchange for those benefits.

Tapping credit lines is not the same as having the power the print money.

No company has an endless credit line. The credit crisis during the height of the financial crisis proves this. Credit dried up for almost all companies, ones with great balance sheets as well as ones with bad balance sheets.

During the same time it was even easier for the government to borrow.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I like the guy who closed his doors to job seekers and then complains about not being able to find people willing to work....

Then he goes on that those aren't earnest job seekers anyways, and is limiting his search to those who have worked for a temp agency for at least 90 days.

Then he complains that he can't get those people to come work for him at $8.50 an hour.

Has it occured to him that those working for a temp agency may already be making more than $8.50 an hour?

How does he get to the conclusion that since he cannot get people to go from a temp agency to his company it is because people on food stamps and welfare make more?

As posted above, the guy is indeed an idiot.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I used to work for one - Grumman Aerospace.

with the bulk of its work in government contracts, isn't this a bit of a tweener company?

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

When the economy is booming, these are hard jobs to fill. And when you can get two years of unemployment, same thing.

Every state I'm aware of has a total benefit limit of some sort that runs out before the clock does. For example, although California law allows a 52 week unemployment claim the maximum payout over that period is 26 weeks of benefits. Colorado has a similar limit. You don't get a dime past then and if it's not going to interfere with your job search you're better off financially doing anything.

[kelpdiver 2]

California is 26 weeks, but the federal stimulus acts extended it. Same was true in 2001-2. CA currently pays a max of 450/wk. It's correct that you wouldn't get this benefit if you were working a min wage job during the qualifying period, but it doesn't take that much income to get to the max. Given a choice of a Funemployment break or working this basic job for 8.50...choice is clear.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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So the discussion is what is a "working" wage?
The idea is that unemployment should be such that you are uncomfortable but not destitute and stealing from others so that you may live.

That's only the case if you're still living like a college student with a $300 sublet room. Peoples' rent and mortgage payments don't magically drop when they become unemployed.

Quote

However minimum wage is designed to be a step above unemployment benefits?
Thus perhaps it can be argued that the system is now upside down?
That one is better off financially being unemployed than gainfully employed at minimum wage?

It depends on what you were making before becoming unemployed and how long you'll be unemployed for.

1) In the states that I'm aware of you get no more than 50% of what you were making before up to some limit (in California that happens at a $49,400 annual salary). If you were making less than double minimum wage you're better off working if you can get a job.

2) There are total benefit limits. In California it's about 26 weeks worth of benefits and Colorado it's similar. Don't work at all, you don't get a dime after six months, and if you were at or above the wage limit you'd make $2700 less in your first year of unemployment than you would have at a minimum wage job.

There is a dollar for dollar reduction in benefits if you are working, but that means the benefits stretch out longer.

Quote

And before you start ranting against unemployment benefits, please look around the safe secure nation we live in, this is greatly impart due to our unemployment system.

Your employer pays about $500 a year in Federal and State unemployment insurance taxes unless they make a habit of laying off people in which case they pay more. Provided that you don't become unemployed very often or for very long more goes into the system on your behalf than you take out.

[Guest]

Quote

W/O using the words lazy, what do you guys think?
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/smallbusiness/1203/gallery.employees/index.html

Quote

And we offer a competitive wage: $8.50 to $9.50 an hour. The $8.50 is just the starting wage. After 90 days we increase it to $9.50 to $10 an hour.

But many people add up their constantly renewed unemployment, food stamps and housing assistance and realize that they can make as much not working, as working.

"Elsewhere in the world, workers have a survival mentality. They know they have to give 110% to keep their jobs. In this country, we give public assistance and unemployment. That allows us not to be as driven. "

Yeah, just like the sweatshops in Asia. What a clueless turd.

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."