Will Obamacare be Ruled to be Constitutional?

[DaVinci 0]

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So if ACA was passed on a state by state basis, it would be constitutional?

I would say yes, unless it went against a State Constitution.

[DaVinci 0]

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Umm, NO, he didn't say that at all. Did you learn to read with mnealtx?

Oh look two personal attacks in one.....

Still your insult does not change the fact that the SC compared them.

[DaVinci 0]

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The tactic of blaming the government (i.e. Obama) for gas prices is a transparent Republican election ploy, entirely without factual merit but nevertheless appealing to those for whom stimulus/response is the limit of their capacity for critical thought.

You mean like when Dems blamed Bush?

[DaVinci 0]

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Right. No question about how new technology fits in for example.

The concepts should never change.

Religion should be free from Govt influence, and this should not only apply to religions that were in place before 1791. Mormonism for example should be protected even if it was founded in ~1820.

The internet should be protected by the 1st, not just the printing press.

[rushmc 23]

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>If you don't like the constitution then add an amendment, that is what
>was done for the last 200 years.

Yep. So I guess the Constitution WAS intended to change with society; we change it to fit the times.

Through the amendment process only

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,106]

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The tactic of blaming the government (i.e. Obama) for gas prices is a transparent Republican election ploy, entirely without factual merit but nevertheless appealing to those for whom stimulus/response is the limit of their capacity for critical thought.

You mean like when Dems blamed Bush?

Well, Bush did INVADE a major oil producing nation and effectively shut down their production for a long time.

Seems that the righties have selective amnesia.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[GeorgiaDon 379]

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The tactic of blaming the government (i.e. Obama) for gas prices is a transparent Republican election ploy, entirely without factual merit but nevertheless appealing to those for whom stimulus/response is the limit of their capacity for critical thought.

You mean like when Dems blamed Bush?

I don't recall Obama starting gratuitous wars that destabilized Middle East oil supplies, maybe I slept through that.

But in general, yes, both sides will use whatever they can to attack the other, and savvy voters will reject the political pablum they are being force fed and look for the real causes behind such events. No-one with an ounce of sense believes the President, or anyone else, has a magic decoder ring that can instantly produce $2 gas, 0% unemployment, or $0 national debt.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[kelpdiver 2]

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I don't recall Obama starting gratuitous wars that destabilized Middle East oil supplies, maybe I slept through that.

well, not yet, at least. He has his chance coming up soon.

[mnealtx 0]

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The tactic of blaming the government (i.e. Obama) for gas prices is a transparent Republican election ploy, entirely without factual merit but nevertheless appealing to those for whom stimulus/response is the limit of their capacity for critical thought.

You mean like when Dems blamed Bush?

Well, Bush did INVADE a major oil producing nation and effectively shut down their production for a long time.

You mean the country we weren't even getting imports from until 1997? The one whose imports were 22 thousand barrels in April 2003, and were back to 22 thousand barrels in October 2003?

That country?

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Seems that the righties have selective amnesia.

Seems like the lefties have selective honesty.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,106]

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The tactic of blaming the government (i.e. Obama) for gas prices is a transparent Republican election ploy, entirely without factual merit but nevertheless appealing to those for whom stimulus/response is the limit of their capacity for critical thought.

You mean like when Dems blamed Bush?

Well, Bush did INVADE a major oil producing nation and effectively shut down their production for a long time.

You mean the country we weren't even getting imports from until 1997? The one whose imports were 22 thousand barrels in April 2003, and were back to 22 thousand barrels in October 2003?

That country?

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Seems that the righties have selective amnesia.

Seems like the lefties have selective honesty.

I didn't claim that Iraq had WMD


The oil market is worldwide, not just the USA.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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The oil market is worldwide, not just the USA.

"Bush did INVADE a major oil producing nation and effectively shut down their production for a long time."

Nice try. Your myth has been busted.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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Well, Bush did INVADE a major oil producing nation and effectively shut down their production for a long time.

You mean the country we weren't even getting imports from until 1997? The one whose imports were 22 thousand barrels in April 2003, and were back to 22 thousand barrels in October 2003?

You can't ignore the reailty of the commodities market. We may only have seen 22k barrels from Iraq, but it was producing 2.6M barrels/day prior to that war. 3 years later, it was still only at 2M/day. Consumption pretty much equals supply these days...the wild variations in the price demonstrate this. If you take half a million barrels out of their supply, it may not impact the supply of the oil we buy, but it certainly affects the price. One of their customers will call our supplier and offer more money. And unless we exceed it, that oil will go there instead.

Look at 2008, when we first saw $4 gas, coupled with the start of the recession. People started driving less in the US. And people started driving dramatically slower on the freeways. Suddenly exceeding the 65mph limit made me stand out. The result was American demand for gas dropped 8%. That's really not a lot, but it resulted in a drop in demand and a plummeting oil price. It really fucked up Russia, Iran, and Venezuela who were starting to plan for a long future of $100+ oil.

[mnealtx 0]

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We may only have seen 22k barrels from Iraq, but it was producing 2.6M barrels/day prior to that war. 3 years later, it was still only at 2M/day.

2.45 million barrels/day in 2001, decreasing to a low of 2.093 million/day in 2006 and back to 2.42 million/day in 2008. Worldwide production went from 76 million/day in 2001, to 79.65 million/day in 2003, 84 million in 2004 and peaked at 85.54 million/day in 2007. 2009 shows production of 84.8 million/day.

Speculation definitely drove the price more than any action that disrupted Iraq's production.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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Speculation definitely drove the price more than any action that disrupted Iraq's production.

speculation is a given. If you take away or threaten to take away supply (like our warnings to Iran), people will speculate that the supply will drop. And if the war happens, this actually will occur.

[kallend 2,106]

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We may only have seen 22k barrels from Iraq, but it was producing 2.6M barrels/day prior to that war. 3 years later, it was still only at 2M/day.

2.45 million barrels/day in 2001, decreasing to a low of 2.093 million/day in 2006 and back to 2.42 million/day in 2008. Worldwide production went from 76 million/day in 2001, to 79.65 million/day in 2003, 84 million in 2004 and peaked at 85.54 million/day in 2007. 2009 shows production of 84.8 million/day.

Speculation definitely drove the price more than any action that disrupted Iraq's production.

Iraq oil production

2001: 2390,000 BBL/day
2003: 1308,000 BBL.day

Not until 2009 did Iraqi output return to 2001 levels.

Courtesy of GWB.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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We may only have seen 22k barrels from Iraq, but it was producing 2.6M barrels/day prior to that war. 3 years later, it was still only at 2M/day.

2.45 million barrels/day in 2001, decreasing to a low of 2.093 million/day in 2006 and back to 2.42 million/day in 2008. Worldwide production went from 76 million/day in 2001, to 79.65 million/day in 2003, 84 million in 2004 and peaked at 85.54 million/day in 2007. 2009 shows production of 84.8 million/day.

Speculation definitely drove the price more than any action that disrupted Iraq's production.

Iraq oil production

2001: 2390,000 BBL/day
2003: 1308,000 BBL.day

Not until 2009 did Iraqi output return to 2001 levels.

Courtesy of GWB.

And we were *STILL* were back at 22k by October, so it didn't have any direct effect on US gas prices. World market grew year on year, so it didn't have any direct effect on that, either.

I *would* say "nice try", but it really wasn't.

Myth *still* busted.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[ShcShc11 0]

Remember though:

One of the stated long-term goals in Iraq was essentially to permanently protect Saudi Arabia.

If something happened in the Middle and Saudi Arabia, Iran and Iraqi oil became inaccessible to the U.S, it would essentially paralyze the U.S economy in the same way Germany/French economy was paralyzed 1940-1943.

Saudi Arabia was obviously America's achilles heels and Iraq War sought to protect them.


Iraq is much more than just... "WMD".
The concept behind Iraq was probably worth-while to pursue, but its unfortunate the U.S was unable to find an Iraqi group that had enough support to legitimately run the country.


Cheers! Shc.

[SkyChimp 0]

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I really hope not

We do not need the Fed gov to have that kind of power

Agreed! The Feds should just stick with protecting our boarders and delivering our mail.

Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?!

[rushmc 23]

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I really hope not

We do not need the Fed gov to have that kind of power

Agreed! The Feds should just stick with protecting our boarders and delivering our mail.

Got a great track record, dont they

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyChimp 0]

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I really hope not

We do not need the Fed gov to have that kind of power

Agreed! The Feds should just stick with protecting our boarders and delivering our mail.

Got a great track record, don't they

Exactly my point Maybe Uncle Sam should go back to the basics and get that working properly before taking on a project like unconstitutional legislation.

Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?!

[kallend 2,106]

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We may only have seen 22k barrels from Iraq, but it was producing 2.6M barrels/day prior to that war. 3 years later, it was still only at 2M/day.

2.45 million barrels/day in 2001, decreasing to a low of 2.093 million/day in 2006 and back to 2.42 million/day in 2008. Worldwide production went from 76 million/day in 2001, to 79.65 million/day in 2003, 84 million in 2004 and peaked at 85.54 million/day in 2007. 2009 shows production of 84.8 million/day.

Speculation definitely drove the price more than any action that disrupted Iraq's production.

Iraq oil production

2001: 2390,000 BBL/day
2003: 1308,000 BBL.day

Not until 2009 did Iraqi output return to 2001 levels.

Courtesy of GWB.

And we were *STILL* were back at 22k by October, so it didn't have any direct effect on US gas prices. World market grew year on year, so it didn't have any direct effect on that, either.

I *would* say "nice try", but it really wasn't.

Myth *still* busted.

Lame attempt at deflection. GWB's false pretenses war essentially removed 1M BBL/day from production.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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I really hope not

We do not need the Fed gov to have that kind of power

Agreed! The Feds should just stick with protecting our boarders and delivering our mail.

Got a great track record, don't they

Exactly my point Maybe Uncle Sam should go back to the basics and get that working properly before taking on a project like unconstitutional legislation.

+1

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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>If you don't like the constitution then add an amendment, that is what
>was done for the last 200 years.

Yep. So I guess the Constitution WAS intended to change with society; we change it to fit the times.

Through the amendment process only

The amendmend process is there to add or delete wholesale changes.

Scotus most definitely rules on consitutional challenges and will shape/restrict constitutional rights.

[rushmc 23]

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>If you don't like the constitution then add an amendment, that is what
>was done for the last 200 years.

Yep. So I guess the Constitution WAS intended to change with society; we change it to fit the times.

Through the amendment process only

The amendmend process is there to add or delete wholesale changes.

Scotus most definitely rules on consitutional challenges and will shape/restrict constitutional rights.

The amendment process is the only process defined within the Constitution by which it is supposed to be modified

The SCOTUS's job is to uphold and defend the Constitituon from Obama.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

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The amendment process is the only process defined within the Constitution by which it is supposed to be modified

The SCOTUS's job is to uphold and defend the Constitituon from Obama.

you might rephrase that, it's a check on the LEGISlature from issuing laws that are unconstitutional

Obama may think he writes laws (and continues to try to do that), but that's not his duty. No matter how much he wishes he was dictator, he's not.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants