Why we need Voter ID laws

[Channman 2]

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The contention that there are these massive number of poor without ID is also a specious argument.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/03/lessons-from-the-voter-id-experience-in-georgia

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The latest data compiled by the Secretary of State of Georgia, Brian Kemp, about the state’s experience with voter ID once again shows that the claims by opponents of voter ID are wrong.

Contrary to their assertions that there are large numbers of American voters without a government-issued photo ID, Georgia has had to issue a remarkably small number of IDs to individuals who did not already have one. The state’s specific turnout data on racial minorities also shows that the claim that voter ID will “suppress” their vote lacks any foundation in facts.

Link this, it tells me all I need to know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLSjL--qvsw

[kelpdiver 2]

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An emotional reaction due to political beliefs you hold. If he had done this to expose the Right, or perhaps a evil gun owner, you'd be defending him against all comers.

An assumption on your part not founded in fact.

you're on record repeatedly defending cops who threaten to kill suspects. Be interesting to see where you weighed in on the Bradley Manning affairs.

[rehmwa 2]

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An emotional reaction due to political beliefs you hold. If he had done this to expose the Right, or perhaps a evil gun owner, you'd be defending him against all comers.

An assumption on your part not founded in fact.

he's just assuming you have a hidden agenda
or he does
or someone does

stop it, I can't keep the hidden agenda straight anymore

TOO MANY



as for voter fraud being a non-problem, I have two words for you

Al Franken

I question the wide eyed innocence of someone that says voter fraud on both parties doesn't happen when the stakes are big enough

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[marks2065 0]

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U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder has declared that there is no proof that in-person voter fraud is a problem. He's about to see proof that even he can't deny.

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That's not proof it's a problem. It's proof it's possible.

When Indiana enacted its voter ID law, the proponents could not come up with a single instance in state history of voter ID fraud. Not one. Yet somehow this NON PROBLEM required a solution that likely deprives a bunch of citizens of their ability to vote.

How? since they already should have ID.

[kallend 2,027]

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U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder has declared that there is no proof that in-person voter fraud is a problem. He's about to see proof that even he can't deny.

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That's not proof it's a problem. It's proof it's possible.

When Indiana enacted its voter ID law, the proponents could not come up with a single instance in state history of voter ID fraud. Not one. Yet somehow this NON PROBLEM required a solution that likely deprives a bunch of citizens of their ability to vote.

How? since they already should have ID.

Where is THAT written?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[davjohns 1]

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It can be surprising difficult to get an ID for somebody if they do not already have one. The problem is that just about every form of government issued ID requires that you already have some other form of ID to prove identity.

It is really a difficult trap to get out of in many cases.

I don't recall what I used to get my kids driver's licenses. Seems like it was birth certificate and school ID or letter from the school or something.

The more I think about it, the less I can believe anyone can survive without ID. You can't cash a check. Living in today's society on a cash basis would be nearly impossible for anyone.

And I understand the argument that it is not a problem. However, some things are just common sense preventive measures. I helped supervise Iraqi elections. They had better protective measures than we do and they don't have any legitimate ID system. We could protect our system quite easily and refuse to by claiming it can't be proven to be a problem.

I don't see any legitimate reason to NOT require ID and it's just common sense to do so. If I were to take the conspiracy theory approach, I would say there was an ulterior motive; the desire to commit voter fraud. But I'm not sure there is any ulterior motive on either side. I think it's just another silly thing some people take a stand on because someone attached the battle cry, "What about the poor?". Someone once said, "You will always have the poor." I'm not going to get too upset if 'the poor' are too lazy to get an ID to vote for someone who will give them more of my money.

I know someone will see this as insensitive, but I worked my way through school through the Army and part time jobs. If you are poor in this country, there is a huge chance that you're ok with that and not interested in changing it. There are always exceptions. I just haven't met any. It's going to be hard to change my mind on this. Your personal background might make the road ahead tougher, but it does not create an inescapable 'fate'. If you can't even get an ID card for yourself, you are useless to society and maybe you shouldn't be allowed to vote for that very reason.

A bit of a rant, but I really think arguing that 'requiring an ID hurts the poor' is a specious argument at best.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[marks2065 0]

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U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder has declared that there is no proof that in-person voter fraud is a problem. He's about to see proof that even he can't deny.

.

That's not proof it's a problem. It's proof it's possible.

When Indiana enacted its voter ID law, the proponents could not come up with a single instance in state history of voter ID fraud. Not one. Yet somehow this NON PROBLEM required a solution that likely deprives a bunch of citizens of their ability to vote.

How? since they already should have ID.

Where is THAT written?

like I asked, How will it deprive anyone of voting. who over 18 doesn't have some form of ID? name all the people you know that don't already have an ID.

[Southern_Man 0]

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like I asked, How will it deprive anyone of voting. who over 18 doesn't have some form of ID? name all the people you know that don't already have an ID.

I know at least six people off the top of my head.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[marks2065 0]

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like I asked, How will it deprive anyone of voting. who over 18 doesn't have some form of ID? name all the people you know that don't already have an ID.

I know at least six people off the top of my head.

not even a birth certificate or a social security number?

[davjohns 1]

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like I asked, How will it deprive anyone of voting. who over 18 doesn't have some form of ID? name all the people you know that don't already have an ID.

I know at least six people off the top of my head.

I'm sure you are being totally honest about this. How do these people survive? Are they mental incompetents that are completely dependent on someone else? I'm not trying to be funny. I'm just having a hard time figuring out how they get medical treatment, government benefits, etc. They clearly can not get a job because they can't turn in an I-9 with the required two forms of ID.

And to my second question...do we really want these people voting when they can't even get an ID for themselves?

I'm just having a hard time envisioning someone who has no form of ID, but can survive and wants to vote; unless they are an illegal alien or some other category that adds nothing to the discussion.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[DanG 1]

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not even a birth certificate or a social security number?

Birth certificates and social security numbers are not valid picture IDs. And yes, many older and rural people do not have a valid copy of their birth certificate, and may have never gotten a social security number.

- Dan G

[davjohns 1]

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not even a birth certificate or a social security number?

Birth certificates and social security numbers are not valid picture IDs. And yes, many older and rural people do not have a valid copy of their birth certificate, and may have never gotten a social security number.

And again...I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just don't comprehend how these people can survive. No birth certificate; no ID; no SSN...so, no filing of taxes (no SSN), no government support (no SSN or ID), no job (no SSN, no ID for the I-9)...but wants to vote. They have no income of any sort. How do they eat? How do they get to the polling site if they can't pay for a bus?

It sounds we are describing the hermit / mountain man / lives under a bridge nut job and we want to make sure that person can vote. They are registered to vote???

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[rushmc 23]

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not even a birth certificate or a social security number?

Birth certificates and social security numbers are not valid picture IDs. And yes, many older and rural people do not have a valid copy of their birth certificate, and may have never gotten a social security number.

Really?

I await ANY specific examples

Just so you know
You can not get medicade treatment without a valid picture ID

I cant use my medical insurance without a valid picture ID

I could not have a weapon permit without a valid picture ID

I can not get a duplicate drivers license without my birth cert

But still, I will wait for your speific example

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[marks2065 0]

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not even a birth certificate or a social security number?

Birth certificates and social security numbers are not valid picture IDs. And yes, many older and rural people do not have a valid copy of their birth certificate, and may have never gotten a social security number.

My 89 year old grandmother 4 years ago had trouble getting on a plane because she had no drivers license, but she did have a birth certificate and a social security card.

[DanG 1]

My wife used to work for an elderly care organization. Many of their clients were rural blacks. They don't have jobs now, although they had worked their whole lives. How many eighty year olds have jobs? They may not have filed taxes, I'm not sure, but I don't think a SSN was required until the last couple of decades. Many of these people did not have running water, and most did not have bank accounts. Their lives were anything but modern.

And yes, people like that are entitled to vote.

I'm not against ensuring one man, one vote, but these requirements must be structured in such a way that no one is disenfranchised. Requiring a government ID that you have to pay for, travel to a specific location far away to get, and may not even be able to obtain if you don't have other paperwork, will disenfranchise people.

- Dan G

[marks2065 0]

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My wife used to work for an elderly care organization. Many of their clients were rural blacks. They don't have jobs now, although they had worked their whole lives. How many eighty year olds have jobs? They may not have filed taxes, I'm not sure, but I don't think a SSN was required until the last couple of decades. Many of these people did not have running water, and most did not have bank accounts. Their lives were anything but modern.

And yes, people like that are entitled to vote.

I'm not against ensuring one man, one vote, but these requirements must be structured in such a way that no one is disenfranchised. Requiring a government ID that you have to pay for, travel to a specific location far away to get, and may not even be able to obtain if you don't have other paperwork, will disenfranchise people.

you are telling me they don't get social security, government aid of any kind? and have never filed a tax return?

[Andy9o8 2]

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I'm not against ensuring one man, one vote, but these requirements must be structured in such a way that no one is disenfranchised. Requiring a government ID that you have to pay for, travel to a specific location far away to get, and may not even be able to obtain if you don't have other paperwork, will disenfranchise people.

This is my basic point. Make getting a "voter-qualified" govt photo ID (a) very easy and (b) 100% free, and my objection will shrink to the size of Rush Limbaugh's dick.

[DanG 1]

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you are telling me they don't get social security, government aid of any kind? and have never filed a tax return?

I know they get state and local government aid. For instance, they could go to the senior centers and get meals, medical screenings, participate in activities, etc. No ID required. The Board of Aging tracked how many people we served, but didn't keep files on individuals. They also get aid from private organizations like churches and medical outreach programs. Again, no ID required. I would venture that most of these people didn't pay into Social Security because they worked farm jobs, domestic jobs, or casual jobs, and never filled out a W4.

I understand that your rebuttal may be that they shouldn't be entitled to vote since they didn't play by all the rules, but that's not how it works. Furthermore, take that argument to its logical extreme, and you'd have to accept that people who don't get medical insurance as mandated by ACA should also lose the right to vote. I don't think you want to go there.

- Dan G

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I'm not against ensuring one man, one vote, but these requirements must be structured in such a way that no one is disenfranchised. Requiring a government ID that you have to pay for, travel to a specific location far away to get, and may not even be able to obtain if you don't have other paperwork, will disenfranchise people.

This is my basic point. Make getting a "voter-qualified" govt photo ID (a) very easy and (b) 100% free, and my objection will shrink to the size of Rush Limbaugh's dick.

Let's employ some of your self-professed intellectual honesty and call this what it is. You want illegals to be able to vote because they generally vote for Democrats. Need a hanky?

[davjohns 1]

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My wife used to work for an elderly care organization. Many of their clients were rural blacks. They don't have jobs now, although they had worked their whole lives. How many eighty year olds have jobs? They may not have filed taxes, I'm not sure, but I don't think a SSN was required until the last couple of decades. Many of these people did not have running water, and most did not have bank accounts. Their lives were anything but modern.

And yes, people like that are entitled to vote.

I'm not against ensuring one man, one vote, but these requirements must be structured in such a way that no one is disenfranchised. Requiring a government ID that you have to pay for, travel to a specific location far away to get, and may not even be able to obtain if you don't have other paperwork, will disenfranchise people.

It just boggles my mind to consider someone (presume the government) pays this facility to provide for these people when we can not say who the people are. No birth certificates? No SSN?

My grandfather died at the age of 86 several years ago and had these things. He worked in the mines in rural Alabama, but had ID. My father is turning 70 this month and he can not fathom anyone not being able to identify themselves with some document.

Out of curiosity, I'm thinking I'll call a couple of local facilities and ask the hypothetical.

I agree that the people you describe have the right to vote and that should be protected. I'm just confused on how their care if paid for if they never paid into SS, don't recieve government benefits of any sort, have no birth certificates, etc.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[davjohns 1]

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I'm not against ensuring one man, one vote, but these requirements must be structured in such a way that no one is disenfranchised. Requiring a government ID that you have to pay for, travel to a specific location far away to get, and may not even be able to obtain if you don't have other paperwork, will disenfranchise people.

This is my basic point. Make getting a "voter-qualified" govt photo ID (a) very easy and (b) 100% free, and my objection will shrink to the size of Rush Limbaugh's dick.

I posted earlier that the Alabama law requiring ID also provided for free ID upon request...not going to touch the reference to anyone's dinky, though. :)

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[marks2065 0]

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you are telling me they don't get social security, government aid of any kind? and have never filed a tax return?

I know they get state and local government aid. For instance, they could go to the senior centers and get meals, medical screenings, participate in activities, etc. No ID required. The Board of Aging tracked how many people we served, but didn't keep files on individuals. They also get aid from private organizations like churches and medical outreach programs. Again, no ID required. I would venture that most of these people didn't pay into Social Security because they worked farm jobs, domestic jobs, or casual jobs, and never filled out a W4.

I understand that your rebuttal may be that they shouldn't be entitled to vote since they didn't play by all the rules, but that's not how it works. Furthermore, take that argument to its logical extreme, and you'd have to accept that people who don't get medical insurance as mandated by ACA should also lose the right to vote. I don't think you want to go there.

If someone after all these years cannot go get an ID of some sorts, Especially since they would be retired and have planty of time, wouldn't be able to vote. We have a great country based on our being able to vote, our vote is worth nothing if we cannot make voting in elections acurate.

[RonD1120 62]

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You know what would be awesome? If O'Keefe, or whoever the "young man" was, got his ass landed in jail for attempting to commit a felony.

He did not attempt to commit a felony. He asked if the registered voter list contained a person named Eric Holder at a specific address. The pollster replied in the affirmative and offered a ballot. O'Keefe did not ask for a ballot. He offered to go retrieve his ID from his car and was told it was not necessary. He did not accept the ballot.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[mnealtx 0]

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not even a birth certificate or a social security number?

Birth certificates and social security numbers are not valid picture IDs. And yes, many older and rural people do not have a valid copy of their birth certificate, and may have never gotten a social security number.

They *are*, however, sufficient proof of identity to get the free voting ID in Georgia, evidently.

To Receive a voter identification card, the voter must provide:
A photo identity document or approved non-photo identity document that includes full legal name and date of birth.
Documentation showing the voter's date of birth
Evidence that the applicant is a registered voter
Documentation showing the applicant's name and residential address

Seems like a birth certificate would satisfy 1 and 2, and a rental contract or utility bill would satisfy 4.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[DanG 1]

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It just boggles my mind to consider someone (presume the government) pays this facility to provide for these people when we can not say who the people are. No birth certificates? No SSN?

Who cares who they are? Anyone can go to a soup kitchen and get soup, and old people can go to the state senior center and get seen by a volunteer dentist. Should soup kitchens start asking for ID? That sort of thing is what leads to a police state.

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My grandfather died at the age of 86 several years ago and had these things. He worked in the mines in rural Alabama, but had ID. My father is turning 70 this month and he can not fathom anyone not being able to identify themselves with some document.

I know, it blows my mind, too. There are lots of people in America, especially Appalacia, who live in ways I can't fathom. I wasn't exaggerating about these elderly people not having running water. Hell, I delivered pizza one summer after college, and there was one neighborhood (in a mid-sized city) where multiple families shared a single phone because that's all they could afford.

- Dan G