DanG 1 #51 April 10, 2012 QuoteIf someone after all these years cannot go get an ID of some sorts, Especially since they would be retired and have planty of time, wouldn't be able to vote. You seem to have a picture of these people sitting around the country club with nothing better to do. I'm talking about people who don't drive, have very little money, and live in very rural areas. Making them get a ride to the county office, procure official copies of their birth certificate (at cost), get a ride to the SSN Administration or library to get SS forms, get a ride to the DMV, and procure a voter ID (at cost), maybe do the whole thing twice because they fill out a form wrong or don't have the right piece of paper, is tantamount to a poll tax. QuoteWe have a great country based on our being able to vote, our vote is worth nothing if we cannot make voting in elections acurate. Yeah, but the flip side to that is your vote is worth nothing if your countrymen are prevented from voting. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #52 April 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteIf someone after all these years cannot go get an ID of some sorts, Especially since they would be retired and have planty of time, wouldn't be able to vote. You seem to have a picture of these people sitting around the country club with nothing better to do. I'm talking about people who don't drive, have very little money, and live in very rural areas. Making them get a ride to the county office, procure official copies of their birth certificate (at cost), get a ride to the SSN Administration or library to get SS forms, get a ride to the DMV, and procure a voter ID (at cost), maybe do the whole thing twice because they fill out a form wrong or don't have the right piece of paper, is tantamount to a poll tax. QuoteWe have a great country based on our being able to vote, our vote is worth nothing if we cannot make voting in elections acurate. Yeah, but the flip side to that is your vote is worth nothing if your countrymen are prevented from voting. Your vote is also worth nothing if offset by a dead person or illegal voter"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #53 April 10, 2012 QuoteYour vote is also worth nothing if offset by a dead person or illegal voter Sure, and if that were actually happening, then we might need to crack down. It's not, so why the rush to pass laws that will disproportionately affect poor people? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #54 April 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteYour vote is also worth nothing if offset by a dead person or illegal voter Sure, and if that were actually happening, then we might need to crack down. It's not, so why the rush to pass laws that will disproportionately affect poor people? we're back to where we started....why go through the great expense of implementing a plan that seems intent on disenfranchisement to solve a problem that doesn't exist? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #55 April 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteYou know what would be awesome? If O'Keefe, or whoever the "young man" was, got his ass landed in jail for attempting to commit a felony. He did not attempt to commit a felony. He asked if the registered voter list contained a person named Eric Holder at a specific address. The pollster replied in the affirmative and offered a ballot. O'Keefe did not ask for a ballot. He offered to go retrieve his ID from his car and was told it was not necessary. He did not accept the ballot. Right, because, you know, it's perfectly normal for people to go to polling places, stand in line and ask that sort of question. No. He misrepresented himself simply by showing up because there is an honest presumption that people asking if a name on a list of voters at a polling place is, in fact, what normally happens when a person goes to vote.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #56 April 10, 2012 Quotewhy go through the great expense of implementing a plan that seems intent on disenfranchisement to solve a problem that doesn't exist? Because it will makes people who do vote feel like something is being done against those damn illegals. The great expense means some politicians area will get a decent money infusion. Votes and money.....that's why! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #57 April 10, 2012 QuoteNo. He misrepresented himself simply by showing up because there is an honest presumption that people asking if a name on a list of voters at a polling place is, in fact, what normally happens when a person goes to vote. so your assumption is that voter fraud doesn't happen because people are honest......... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #58 April 10, 2012 Quote a plan that seems intent on disenfranchisement to solve a problem that doesn't exist? What an odd statement - Voter ID is intended to halt disenfranchisement (been down this road before though - someone will say, "Hey, you DO get to vote. It doesn't matter if an illegal vote CANCELED your vote - that's not "really" disenfranchisement - it's just that your vote doesn't mean anything and I'm OK with that if it helps MY guy win") ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #59 April 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteI'm not against ensuring one man, one vote, but these requirements must be structured in such a way that no one is disenfranchised. Requiring a government ID that you have to pay for, travel to a specific location far away to get, and may not even be able to obtain if you don't have other paperwork, will disenfranchise people. This is my basic point. Make getting a "voter-qualified" govt photo ID (a) very easy and (b) 100% free, and my objection will shrink to the size of Rush Limbaugh's dick. Let's employ some of your self-professed intellectual honesty and call this what it is. You want illegals to be able to vote because they generally vote for Democrats. Need a hanky? What is the extent of the illegal vote? Please provide data. IN Indiana the GOP couldn't, when challenged, come up with one single example. Not one. yet they still maintained it was a problem that needed a cure that can disenfranchise legitimate voters.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #60 April 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI'm not against ensuring one man, one vote, but these requirements must be structured in such a way that no one is disenfranchised. Requiring a government ID that you have to pay for, travel to a specific location far away to get, and may not even be able to obtain if you don't have other paperwork, will disenfranchise people. This is my basic point. Make getting a "voter-qualified" govt photo ID (a) very easy and (b) 100% free, and my objection will shrink to the size of Rush Limbaugh's dick. Let's employ some of your self-professed intellectual honesty and call this what it is. You want illegals to be able to vote because they generally vote for Democrats. Need a hanky? What is the extent of the illegal vote? Please provide data. IN Indiana the GOP couldn't, when challenged, come up with one single example. Not one. yet they still maintained it was a problem that needed a cure that can disenfranchise legitimate voters. no voter fraud just google it. this is just one story of hundreds.http://mises.org/daily/554 I really like the last line. The lesson to be learned from these historical incidents is that any political party that is brazen enough to steal a presidential election through voter fraud is also likely to be brazen (and powerful) enough to plunder the citizens under its rule, endanger their lives, and treat them like serfs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #61 April 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI'm not against ensuring one man, one vote, but these requirements must be structured in such a way that no one is disenfranchised. Requiring a government ID that you have to pay for, travel to a specific location far away to get, and may not even be able to obtain if you don't have other paperwork, will disenfranchise people. This is my basic point. Make getting a "voter-qualified" govt photo ID (a) very easy and (b) 100% free, and my objection will shrink to the size of Rush Limbaugh's dick. Let's employ some of your self-professed intellectual honesty and call this what it is. You want illegals to be able to vote because they generally vote for Democrats. Need a hanky? What is the extent of the illegal vote? Please provide data. IN Indiana the GOP couldn't, when challenged, come up with one single example. Not one. yet they still maintained it was a problem that needed a cure that can disenfranchise legitimate voters. no voter fraud just google it. this is just one story of hundreds.http://mises.org/daily/554 I really like the last line. The lesson to be learned from these historical incidents is that any political party that is brazen enough to steal a presidential election through voter fraud is also likely to be brazen (and powerful) enough to plunder the citizens under its rule, endanger their lives, and treat them like serfs. Nothing there to indicate that "illegals" voting is a problem in any state.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #62 April 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou know what would be awesome? If O'Keefe, or whoever the "young man" was, got his ass landed in jail for attempting to commit a felony. He did not attempt to commit a felony. He asked if the registered voter list contained a person named Eric Holder at a specific address. The pollster replied in the affirmative and offered a ballot. O'Keefe did not ask for a ballot. He offered to go retrieve his ID from his car and was told it was not necessary. He did not accept the ballot. Right, because, you know, it's perfectly normal for people to go to polling places, stand in line and ask that sort of question. No. He misrepresented himself simply by showing up because there is an honest presumption that people asking if a name on a list of voters at a polling place is, in fact, what normally happens when a person goes to vote. My, you stretch so far beyond the point of the example I don't think you will ever make it back. Wait a minute, you live on the left coast. I forgot. Well then, never mind.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #63 April 10, 2012 Why does everything have to be a problem before we do something about it? If Clinton had done something about OBL BEFORE 911, we wouldn't have had 3000 people die. Does an intersection have to have a few crashes before a traffic light is installed? I posted a lonk earlier showing over 200 convictions for voter fraud in MInnisota, FYI which the pro-voter fraud crowd ignored. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #64 April 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI'm not against ensuring one man, one vote, but these requirements must be structured in such a way that no one is disenfranchised. Requiring a government ID that you have to pay for, travel to a specific location far away to get, and may not even be able to obtain if you don't have other paperwork, will disenfranchise people. This is my basic point. Make getting a "voter-qualified" govt photo ID (a) very easy and (b) 100% free, and my objection will shrink to the size of Rush Limbaugh's dick. Let's employ some of your self-professed intellectual honesty and call this what it is. You want illegals to be able to vote because they generally vote for Democrats. Need a hanky? What is the extent of the illegal vote? Please provide data. IN Indiana the GOP couldn't, when challenged, come up with one single example. Not one. yet they still maintained it was a problem that needed a cure that can disenfranchise legitimate voters. no voter fraud just google it. this is just one story of hundreds.http://mises.org/daily/554 I really like the last line. The lesson to be learned from these historical incidents is that any political party that is brazen enough to steal a presidential election through voter fraud is also likely to be brazen (and powerful) enough to plunder the citizens under its rule, endanger their lives, and treat them like serfs. Nothing there to indicate that "illegals" voting is a problem in any state. since when was voter fraud restricted to illegals? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #65 April 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI'm not against ensuring one man, one vote, but these requirements must be structured in such a way that no one is disenfranchised. Requiring a government ID that you have to pay for, travel to a specific location far away to get, and may not even be able to obtain if you don't have other paperwork, will disenfranchise people. This is my basic point. Make getting a "voter-qualified" govt photo ID (a) very easy and (b) 100% free, and my objection will shrink to the size of Rush Limbaugh's dick. Let's employ some of your self-professed intellectual honesty and call this what it is. You want illegals to be able to vote because they generally vote for Democrats. Need a hanky? What is the extent of the illegal vote? Please provide data. IN Indiana the GOP couldn't, when challenged, come up with one single example. Not one. yet they still maintained it was a problem that needed a cure that can disenfranchise legitimate voters. no voter fraud just google it. this is just one story of hundreds.http://mises.org/daily/554 I really like the last line. The lesson to be learned from these historical incidents is that any political party that is brazen enough to steal a presidential election through voter fraud is also likely to be brazen (and powerful) enough to plunder the citizens under its rule, endanger their lives, and treat them like serfs. Nothing there to indicate that "illegals" voting is a problem in any state. since when was voter fraud restricted to illegals? See post #44, this thread.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #66 April 10, 2012 Quote Nothing there to indicate that "illegals" voting is a problem in any state. Except that it is against the law. Citizenship should be earned and carry privileges that uphold the honor of the individual and the U.S.A. If you are not a citizen you should not enjoy the rights and privileges of those who are.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #67 April 10, 2012 QuoteQuote Nothing there to indicate that "illegals" voting is a problem in any state. Except that it is against the law. Citizenship should be earned and carry privileges that uphold the honor of the individual and the U.S.A. If you are not a citizen you should not enjoy the rights and privileges of those who are. Since there is NO EVIDENCE of a problem with illegals voting, and there IS evidence of disenfranchisement of legal citizens, it seems the "cure" is there for purely political reasons only.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #68 April 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI'm not against ensuring one man, one vote, but these requirements must be structured in such a way that no one is disenfranchised. Requiring a government ID that you have to pay for, travel to a specific location far away to get, and may not even be able to obtain if you don't have other paperwork, will disenfranchise people. This is my basic point. Make getting a "voter-qualified" govt photo ID (a) very easy and (b) 100% free, and my objection will shrink to the size of Rush Limbaugh's dick. Let's employ some of your self-professed intellectual honesty and call this what it is. You want illegals to be able to vote because they generally vote for Democrats. Need a hanky? What is the extent of the illegal vote? Please provide data. IN Indiana the GOP couldn't, when challenged, come up with one single example. Not one. yet they still maintained it was a problem that needed a cure that can disenfranchise legitimate voters. no voter fraud just google it. this is just one story of hundreds.http://mises.org/daily/554 I really like the last line. The lesson to be learned from these historical incidents is that any political party that is brazen enough to steal a presidential election through voter fraud is also likely to be brazen (and powerful) enough to plunder the citizens under its rule, endanger their lives, and treat them like serfs. Nothing there to indicate that "illegals" voting is a problem in any state. since when was voter fraud restricted to illegals? See post #44, this thread. This thread is about voter fraud and some of that my be from illegals. prove to me voter fraud does not happen and then I will not press the issue of id's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #69 April 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI'm not against ensuring one man, one vote, but these requirements must be structured in such a way that no one is disenfranchised. Requiring a government ID that you have to pay for, travel to a specific location far away to get, and may not even be able to obtain if you don't have other paperwork, will disenfranchise people. This is my basic point. Make getting a "voter-qualified" govt photo ID (a) very easy and (b) 100% free, and my objection will shrink to the size of Rush Limbaugh's dick. Let's employ some of your self-professed intellectual honesty and call this what it is. You want illegals to be able to vote because they generally vote for Democrats. Need a hanky? What is the extent of the illegal vote? Please provide data. IN Indiana the GOP couldn't, when challenged, come up with one single example. Not one. yet they still maintained it was a problem that needed a cure that can disenfranchise legitimate voters. no voter fraud just google it. this is just one story of hundreds.http://mises.org/daily/554 I really like the last line. The lesson to be learned from these historical incidents is that any political party that is brazen enough to steal a presidential election through voter fraud is also likely to be brazen (and powerful) enough to plunder the citizens under its rule, endanger their lives, and treat them like serfs. Nothing there to indicate that "illegals" voting is a problem in any state. since when was voter fraud restricted to illegals? See post #44, this thread. This thread is about voter fraud and some of that my be from illegals. prove to me voter fraud does not happen and then I will not press the issue of id's. Prove to me that it is a problem worthy of a cure that disenfranchises legal citizens, and I'll shut up too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #70 April 10, 2012 Quote[ Prove to me that it is a problem worthy of a cure that disenfranchises legal citizens, and I'll shut up too. if there is voter fraud it needs to be fixed. how many places does your arm have to be broken before you get that fixed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #71 April 10, 2012 QuoteQuote[ Prove to me that it is a problem worthy of a cure that disenfranchises legal citizens, and I'll shut up too. if there is voter fraud it needs to be fixed. how many places does your arm have to be broken before you get that fixed? If the Dr fixing your arm prescribes amputating your head, then I'd go with the broken arm.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #72 April 10, 2012 QuoteWhy does everything have to be a problem before we do something about it? If Clinton had done something about OBL BEFORE 911, we wouldn't have had 3000 people die. Does an intersection have to have a few crashes before a traffic light is installed? I posted a lonk earlier showing over 200 convictions for voter fraud in MInnisota, FYI which the pro-voter fraud crowd ignored. So how much in taxes are you willing to spend on this non problem? I'm pretty sure you're aware of our trillion dollar deficit and I believe you'd like to pay less in taxes, not more. This fits into the category of "pet project" spending. It took us 9 years in Afghanistan to kill OBL. Are you suggesting we should start 9 year wars in every nation that houses an asshole we don't like and has tried to pull shit against our interests? How much are you willing to pay on that front? You ask: "Why does everything have to be a problem before we do something about it?" That sounds like a Democrat talking...the answer is that we don't have the money to deal with the known problems, let alone the hypothetical threats. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #73 April 10, 2012 Quote Right, because, you know, it's perfectly normal for people to go to polling places, stand in line and ask that sort of question. No. He misrepresented himself simply by showing up because there is an honest presumption that people asking if a name on a list of voters at a polling place is, in fact, what normally happens when a person goes to vote. He acted the same way Michael Moore acts. You want to imply since he's not a REAL JOURNALIST, then his actions are illegal and he should be charged with some crime, but it gets back to he exposed something inconvenient, so rather than debate it, open a can of whoop ass on the guy to discourage further examination. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #74 April 10, 2012 QuoteExcept that it is against the law. Criminals don't follow laws. How will adding more laws prevent criminals from doing what they do? Where have I heard that argument before? Hmm... - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #75 April 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote[ Prove to me that it is a problem worthy of a cure that disenfranchises legal citizens, and I'll shut up too. if there is voter fraud it needs to be fixed. how many places does your arm have to be broken before you get that fixed? If the Dr fixing your arm prescribes amputating your head, then I'd go with the broken arm. But, in this case, the Dr. is talking about marking and casting the proper arm. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
