kallend 2,027 #51 May 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteWell, Marc, RIGHT NOW you are paying (by a very inefficient process) to support freeloaders like Mary Brown. How would you go about dealing with that situation? Let her die? She would not be allowed to die today RIGHT - today responsible people like you and I are paying for freeloaders like her and her ilk when they get sick. And you think this is just fine.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #52 May 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteWell, Marc, RIGHT NOW you are paying (by a very inefficient process) to support freeloaders like Mary Brown. How would you go about dealing with that situation? Let her die? She would not be allowed to die today RIGHT - today responsible people like you and I are paying for freeloaders like her and her ilk when they get sick. And you think this is just fine. I agree with you completely about today and freeloaders. the question is what to do about it? you, being an teacher and left leaning, have confidence in the gov't and feel private markets are the problem. I being a private sector banker and right leaning, am the exact opposite. Problem is congress is pretty much split 50/50 between our opinions. Thus we get the worst of both worlds. i dont want Canada or Euro healthcare. I still have family in Italy and feel we do better than them. with that said, i do not like the way we are going and would prefer one or the other at this point. we are a total mess right now. i doubt there is much argument with that."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #53 May 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteWell, Marc, RIGHT NOW you are paying (by a very inefficient process) to support freeloaders like Mary Brown. How would you go about dealing with that situation? Let her die? She would not be allowed to die today RIGHT - today responsible people like you and I are paying for freeloaders like her and her ilk when they get sick. And you think this is just fine. I find it odd that you speak of those who have less oportunity and means as freeloaders Sounds like you would just fine killing her off"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #54 May 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWell, Marc, RIGHT NOW you are paying (by a very inefficient process) to support freeloaders like Mary Brown. How would you go about dealing with that situation? Let her die? She would not be allowed to die today RIGHT - today responsible people like you and I are paying for freeloaders like her and her ilk when they get sick. And you think this is just fine. I agree with you completely about today and freeloaders. the question is what to do about it? you, being an teacher and left leaning, have confidence in the gov't and feel private markets are the problem. I being a private sector banker and right leaning, am the exact opposite. Problem is congress is pretty much split 50/50 between our opinions. Thus we get the worst of both worlds. i dont want Canada or Euro healthcare. I still have family in Italy and feel we do better than them. with that said, i do not like the way we are going and would prefer one or the other at this point. we are a total mess right now. i doubt there is much argument with that. We do have a bit of a mess But enacting obamacare is asking the very entity that has created the mess, to now fix it"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #55 May 8, 2012 >We do have a bit of a mess >But enacting obamacare is asking the very entity that has created the mess, to now fix it I like you when you defend private industry but we will have to disagree today, hah. I am not a party guy. I am an extreem moderate. I lean a bit right on financial issues and well left on most social issues. so i cannot agree that only the gov't or the left is to blame. It is private industry that gets the states to create a big part of this mess. they wanted their bills to be payed and we are forced to buy policies that cover things we dont want. ie massage therapy and acupunture. Premiums go up. It is also the private insurance companies that gets the states to insure their is less competition. premiums go up. to much of a mess to be created by one side. I see a giant problem that was caused by everyone. Not the right or the left."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #56 May 8, 2012 QuoteQuote I've changed my mind about socialized medicine. I'm ashamed to say that it took personal experience with the medical world to do it but there you have it. . Care to elaborate? High costs for minimal services and attempts to pad the bill with unneeded and unnecessary testing and treatments. Maybe our goobermint could do something about the legal robbery. I dunno. That's just how I feel right now.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #57 May 8, 2012 Again I'll chime in and say the real problem lies with the lawyers, doctors, and insurance companies. Until you do something about the excessive charges for services rendered you haven't begun to fix the problem. ObamaCare does nothing.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #58 May 8, 2012 Quote>We do have a bit of a mess >But enacting obamacare is asking the very entity that has created the mess, to now fix it I like you when you defend private industry but we will have to disagree today, hah. I am not a party guy. I am an extreem moderate. I lean a bit right on financial issues and well left on most social issues. so i cannot agree that only the gov't or the left is to blame. It is private industry that gets the states to create a big part of this mess. they wanted their bills to be payed and we are forced to buy policies that cover things we dont want. ie massage therapy and acupunture. Premiums go up. It is also the private insurance companies that gets the states to insure their is less competition. premiums go up. to much of a mess to be created by one side. I see a giant problem that was caused by everyone. Not the right or the left. I said the gov Not republicans or democrats The problem we have is caused by regulation at multiple levels These regulations include not crossing state borders (most states require the insurance company to have some kind of corp HQ in the state before they can sell there) state, county, and city mandated coverage Private industry is just trying to funtion under the massive load of buratic bs that drives costs up open op the borders, legal reform and kill all mandates allow companies to customize policies based on what the consumer wants, not what the feds, states, counties and cities tell them they have to provide I will agree that some companies protect themselves by getting together with their states law makers That can be addressed to"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #59 May 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteAs Dr. Donald Berwick [11] (President Obama’s former head of Medicare) once noted: The primary function of regulation in health care, especially as it affects the quality of medical care, is to constrain decentralized, individualized decision making. In other words, restricting physicians’ freedom to practice is not some “unintended consequence” of ObamaCare, but rather an explicitly desired goal. ...and if that includes preventing them from charging $5 for freakin' tylenol, then I'm all for it. And it doesn't matter who has to pay it....me, you or the insurance company. Either way it sucks. One major problem is that those with insurance don't give a rats ass about how much services cost because they either pay nothing or only pay minimal. Maybe if everybody was paying for everybody, some of the dead asses would start caring about medical robbery.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #60 May 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteAs Dr. Donald Berwick [11] (President Obama’s former head of Medicare) once noted: The primary function of regulation in health care, especially as it affects the quality of medical care, is to constrain decentralized, individualized decision making. In other words, restricting physicians’ freedom to practice is not some “unintended consequence” of ObamaCare, but rather an explicitly desired goal. ...and if that includes preventing them from charging $5 for freakin' tylenol, then I'm all for it. And it doesn't matter who has to pay it....me, you or the insurance company. Either way it sucks. One major problem is that those with insurance don't give a rats ass about how much services cost because they either pay nothing or only pay minimal. Maybe if everybody was paying for everybody, some of the dead asses would start caring about medical robbery. Cant argue with this The points you make would be affected by a market that is free to compete VALUE of services rendered would weed out the bad ones I dont want anyone to think I am against regulation all together. I have not problem with a level of oversite and consumer portections But what we got stinks And the gov is the prime cause"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #61 May 8, 2012 QuoteI find it odd that you speak of those who have less oportunity and means as freeloaders Sounds like you would (be) just fine killing her off Agreed. It's the typical "I got mine so Fuck You" attitude.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #62 May 8, 2012 >I said the gov >Not republicans or democrats >The problem we have is caused by regulation at multiple levels I think we might be splitting hairs over this but i just want to make sure my point is clear. i do not disagree with your opinion on regulatons causing the problem. IMO, the private healthcare industry used their influence to cause the regulations to increase their profits. So both groups are to blame. the gov't and private business. I agree with your solutions about increasing competition to drive down costs. If we did that, perhaps we could then create a better safety net for the poor and unfortunate with the monies saved."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #63 May 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWell, Marc, RIGHT NOW you are paying (by a very inefficient process) to support freeloaders like Mary Brown. How would you go about dealing with that situation? Let her die? She would not be allowed to die today RIGHT - today responsible people like you and I are paying for freeloaders like her and her ilk when they get sick. And you think this is just fine. I find it odd that you speak of those who have less oportunity and means as freeloaders Sounds like you would just fine killing her off Check your facts (for a change). Mary Brown had plenty of means to buy health insurance. She was just freeloading because she didn't think she'd get sick. She was wrong, we pay.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #64 May 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWell, Marc, RIGHT NOW you are paying (by a very inefficient process) to support freeloaders like Mary Brown. How would you go about dealing with that situation? Let her die? She would not be allowed to die today RIGHT - today responsible people like you and I are paying for freeloaders like her and her ilk when they get sick. And you think this is just fine. I agree with you completely about today and freeloaders. the question is what to do about it? you, being an teacher and left leaning, have confidence in the gov't and feel private markets are the problem. I being a private sector banker and right leaning, am the exact opposite. Problem is congress is pretty much split 50/50 between our opinions. Thus we get the worst of both worlds. i dont want Canada or Euro healthcare. I still have family in Italy and feel we do better than them. with that said, i do not like the way we are going and would prefer one or the other at this point. we are a total mess right now. i doubt there is much argument with that. We do have a bit of a mess But enacting obamacare is asking the very entity that has created the mess, to now fix it How did the government create freeloaders like Ms. Brown?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #65 May 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWell, Marc, RIGHT NOW you are paying (by a very inefficient process) to support freeloaders like Mary Brown. How would you go about dealing with that situation? Let her die? She would not be allowed to die today RIGHT - today responsible people like you and I are paying for freeloaders like her and her ilk when they get sick. And you think this is just fine. I agree with you completely about today and freeloaders. the question is what to do about it? you, being an teacher and left leaning, have confidence in the gov't and feel private markets are the problem. I being a private sector banker and right leaning, am the exact opposite. Problem is congress is pretty much split 50/50 between our opinions. Thus we get the worst of both worlds. i dont want Canada or Euro healthcare. I still have family in Italy and feel we do better than them. with that said, i do not like the way we are going and would prefer one or the other at this point. we are a total mess right now. i doubt there is much argument with that. We do have a bit of a mess But enacting obamacare is asking the very entity that has created the mess, to now fix it How did the government create freeloaders like Ms. Brown? Create them? I dont know Encourage freeloading Pick your program, including un-employment Tell us all sir Which program has eliminated of lessened poverty? In what? Some 42 years? But again, I am dismayed at your lack of compassion that is demostrated by you calling Mary Brown a freelader Where is your heart sir?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #66 May 8, 2012 Oh do check the facts before making a fool of yourself some more. Mary Brown was not indigent. She could well have afforded health insurance. She just CHOSE to go without. So when she did get sick she became a burden on the rest of us.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #67 May 8, 2012 Quote Oh do check the facts before making a fool of yourself some more. Mary Brown was not indigent. She could well have afforded health insurance. She just CHOSE to go without. So when she did get sick she became a burden on the rest of us. SO, in your world here today, just because she made a bad choice, you would allow her to die? Your liberalism is in doubt here now"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #68 May 8, 2012 QuoteQuote Oh do check the facts before making a fool of yourself some more. Mary Brown was not indigent. She could well have afforded health insurance. She just CHOSE to go without. So when she did get sick she became a burden on the rest of us. SO, in your world here today, just because she made a bad choice, you would allow her to die? Your liberalism is in doubt here now Lame strawman. Where did I write that?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #69 May 8, 2012 Quote Oh do check the facts before making a fool of yourself some more. Mary Brown was not indigent. She could well have afforded he alth insurance. She just CHOSE to go without. So when she did get sick she became a burden on the rest of us. Question is, does Mary care if she lives or dies? If she cared, why didn't she do something about it by purchasing insurance? I suspect it has something to do with people thinking they. An do whatever they want and not worry about the consequence. It has more to do with the mentality we have fostered through the Nanny State. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #70 May 8, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Oh do check the facts before making a fool of yourself some more. Mary Brown was not indigent. She could well have afforded health insurance. She just CHOSE to go without. So when she did get sick she became a burden on the rest of us. SO, in your world here today, just because she made a bad choice, you would allow her to die? Your liberalism is in doubt here now Lame strawman. Where did I write that? You have been bitching about freeloaders this whole thread Where do YOU think it came from"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #71 May 8, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Oh do check the facts before making a fool of yourself some more. Mary Brown was not indigent. She could well have afforded health insurance. She just CHOSE to go without. So when she did get sick she became a burden on the rest of us. SO, in your world here today, just because she made a bad choice, you would allow her to die? Your liberalism is in doubt here now Lame strawman. Where did I write that? You have been bitching about freeloaders this whole thread Where do YOU think it came from YOU still haven't said how YOU would deal with freeloaders. Evading the question because you don't like the answer?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #72 May 8, 2012 QuoteQuote Oh do check the facts before making a fool of yourself some more. Mary Brown was not indigent. She could well have afforded he alth insurance. She just CHOSE to go without. So when she did get sick she became a burden on the rest of us. Question is, does Mary care if she lives or dies? If she cared, why didn't she do something about it by purchasing insurance? Because she's a greedy Republican Quote I suspect it has something to do with people thinking they. An do whatever they want and not worry about the consequence. It has more to do with the mentality we have fostered through the Nanny State. We don't have a Nanny State when it comes to health. We have private hospitals and private insurance, and FREELOADERS who stiff their healthcare providers when they get sick. In the final analysis responsible people pay the freeloaders' bills BECAUSE we don't have a rational system in place.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #73 May 8, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Oh do check the facts before making a fool of yourself some more. Mary Brown was not indigent. She could well have afforded health insurance. She just CHOSE to go without. So when she did get sick she became a burden on the rest of us. SO, in your world here today, just because she made a bad choice, you would allow her to die? Your liberalism is in doubt here now Lame strawman. Where did I write that? You have been bitching about freeloaders this whole thread Where do YOU think it came from YOU still haven't said how YOU would deal with freeloaders. Evading the question because you don't like the answer? I have not evaded anything She will get care, right? Just like anyone else who does not have insurance today Know that I do not agree with you and your support for obamacare, which would increase the number of freeloaders We already have more than enough"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #74 May 8, 2012 In the final analysis responsible people pay the freeloaders' bills BECAUSE we don't have a rational system in place. Which obamacare will make worse if allowed to stand"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #75 May 8, 2012 Quote In the final analysis responsible people pay the freeloaders' bills BECAUSE we don't have a rational system in place. Which obamacare will make worse if allowed to stand More rushmc nonsense.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Which obamacare will make worse if allowed to stand
More rushmc nonsense.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.