Obama dramatically changing the role of Government from Reagan's time.

[ShcShc11 0]

I like numbers and charts.

CHARTS:
http://postimage.org/image/ez3jrzrav/

http://s15.postimage.org/67cjcs7ez/1_Public_Employment_Obama.jpg


Reason why I'm posting this is because there is this misconcept that Government is expanding its role in the economy or spend a massive stimulus when it in fact clearly did not.

What is clear:
-The Obama administration dramatically reduced Government employment in comparison to the Bush era and Clinton era. Huge cuts in public employment in fact.

-If you tallied the Federal/State/Local Government Expenditure, there was barely any stimulus program or any real Government expansion. If you are unhappy with how the economy is going, it is because we entered under this false notion of "cut Government" instead of using the money to plug a gaping 2.5 Trillion $ hole from the 2008 Great Recession.


Cheers! Shc!

[ShcShc11 0]

The government comparison in 3 different eras of good times/recoveries (including Morning in America):

Real Government Consumption + Investment Spending (purchase of goods and services)
REAGAN vs BUSH vs OBAMA
http://postimage.org/image/g6dy1wxdx/

Expenditure REAGAN vs OBAMA
http://postimage.org/image/5je97omxn/

Reagan and Obama's recessions are completely different (stagflation vs zero-bound), but its still worth to note that Reagan is more Keynesian in comparison to how the current administration reacted so far.

When Reagan and Milton Friedman are considered "more Keynesian", its a little scary

Anyway, food for thoughts.
Happy weekends all. :)

[chutem 0]

Quote

I like numbers and charts.

CHARTS:
http://postimage.org/image/ez3jrzrav/

http://s15.postimage.org/67cjcs7ez/1_Public_Employment_Obama.jpg


Reason why I'm posting this is because there is this misconcept that Government is expanding its role in the economy or spend a massive stimulus when it in fact clearly did not.

What is clear:
-The Obama administration dramatically reduced Government employment in comparison to the Bush era and Clinton era. Huge cuts in public employment in fact.

-If you tallied the Federal/State/Local Government Expenditure, there was barely any stimulus program or any real Government expansion. If you are unhappy with how the economy is going, it is because we entered under this false notion of "cut Government" instead of using the money to plug a gaping 2.5 Trillion $ hole from the 2008 Great Recession.


Cheers! Shc!

How many of the cut public jobs you are crediting Obama with were Federal positions? Has the number of federal public employees risen or decreased under the Obama administration?

James

[tkhayes 348]

Quote

How many of the cut public jobs you are crediting Obama with were Federal positions? Has the number of federal public employees risen or decreased under the Obama administration?

why don't you go find that out? and then report back to us. The data posted is pretty relevant and demonstrates a hypocrisy on the right and a general misrepresentation of what is really going on in the country.

But sadly, you won't see the Democrats doing anything to toot their own horn about their succeses and I have no idea why?

We want them to be tough on immigration, yet the current administration has broken all time records on deportations.

Romney wants to cut more and more government jobs, yet stands with NY City firefighters, 'understanding' their plight of low wages and needed a second job to make ends meet.

Yet these NY City firefighters will probably vote for Romney.....duh?

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

How many of the cut public jobs you are crediting Obama with were Federal positions? Has the number of federal public employees risen or decreased under the Obama administration?

why don't you go find that out? and then report back to us. The data posted is pretty relevant and demonstrates a hypocrisy on the right and a general misrepresentation of what is really going on in the country.

But sadly, you won't see the Democrats doing anything to toot their own horn about their succeses and I have no idea why?

We want them to be tough on immigration, yet the current administration has broken all time records on deportations.

Romney wants to cut more and more government jobs, yet stands with NY City firefighters, 'understanding' their plight of low wages and needed a second job to make ends meet.

Yet these NY City firefighters will probably vote for Romney.....duh?

The number has risen

I posted a link to that in another thread

How the admin is hiding the growth is by hiring full time contractors and then leaving them out of the numbers

Wendy even thought that was dishonest


And give up on the fire fighters police and teachers whinning

An old lie most are on to now

It doesnt work for anyone who is informed

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

How many of the cut public jobs you are crediting Obama with were Federal positions? Has the number of federal public employees risen or decreased under the Obama administration?

why don't you go find that out? and then report back to us. The data posted is pretty relevant and demonstrates a hypocrisy on the right and a general misrepresentation of what is really going on in the country.

But sadly, you won't see the Democrats doing anything to toot their own horn about their succeses and I have no idea why?

We want them to be tough on immigration, yet the current administration has broken all time records on deportations.

Romney wants to cut more and more government jobs, yet stands with NY City firefighters, 'understanding' their plight of low wages and needed a second job to make ends meet.

Yet these NY City firefighters will probably vote for Romney.....duh?

Hate to break it to you but firefighters are not federal employees and Romney has no control over hiring them.

[matthewcline 0]

Hmm, lower employment rate, yet higher expenses.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[tkhayes 348]

Quote

Hate to break it to you but firefighters are not federal employees and Romney has no control over hiring them.

True, but federal, state and local tax dollars all filter down to pay their salaries, and thus influences their hiring and firing. It's naive to think that federal money does not affect how big a fire department gets or how well they are paid.

And if Romney does not affect their wages, then why is campaigning like he does? I know, i know because he is a politician....

Go ahead and vote for Romney - it will be the biggest joke in 4 more years when the 'moderate' changes absolutely NOTHING.

[chutem 0]

Quote

Quote

How many of the cut public jobs you are crediting Obama with were Federal positions? Has the number of federal public employees risen or decreased under the Obama administration?

why don't you go find that out? and then report back to us. The data posted is pretty relevant and demonstrates a hypocrisy on the right and a general misrepresentation of what is really going on in the country.

But sadly, you won't see the Democrats doing anything to toot their own horn about their succeses and I have no idea why?

We want them to be tough on immigration, yet the current administration has broken all time records on deportations.

Romney wants to cut more and more government jobs, yet stands with NY City firefighters, 'understanding' their plight of low wages and needed a second job to make ends meet.

Yet these NY City firefighters will probably vote for Romney.....duh?

How about you go look it up and report back, the answer may surprise you.

James

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Reason why I'm posting this is because there is this misconcept that Government is expanding its role in the economy or spend a massive stimulus when it in fact clearly did not.

An inadequately labelled graph that shows government employment going down (even though most of these jobs are not federal) as evidence that the government is not expanding its role is propaganda level arguing at best. Extremely disappointing to see.

[davjohns 1]

I haven't done the research to take a stance on this issue right now. I just want to throw out something to consider.

Many government jobs are outsourced. In my particular government area, a large percentage of the employees are actually not government employees, but contractors. Constractors are used to replace government workers and all the graphs and statistics might be tracking one, but not the other. I have no idea if the percentages of government employee to contractor are different across the administrations, but I know that I see many more contractors today than I once did. It could just be my rank and positions now. Not sure.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[ShcShc11 0]

Quote

Quote

Reason why I'm posting this is because there is this misconcept that Government is expanding its role in the economy or spend a massive stimulus when it in fact clearly did not.

An inadequately labelled graph that shows government employment going down (even though most of these jobs are not federal) as evidence that the government is not expanding its role is propaganda level arguing at best. Extremely disappointing to see.

Hardly. I understand the information I mentioned are counter-intuitive to what is usually reported in the media- but they are truthful numbers and they are hardly propaganda.

The economy does not care if the employments are state, local or Federal. If this is a zero-bound recession (similar to the 1930 GD or 1990s Japanese crisis), then demand is clearly what is needed. If the Federal insufficiently transfers money to the States (and it was most definitely insufficient), then it is the equivalent of the Federal forcing cuts to the bottom.

When someone like Milton Friedmann is considered "far leftist" in our current economic discourse, then there is definitely something wrong (he is the father of the supply-side economics).

Economics came to the point where we rely more on our prejudice than real solid datas.




Cheers! Shc

[davjohns 1]

Somebody help me out. I understood economics in grad school, but it has been a while. Why do the graphs above seem at odds with this one?

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?s[1][id]=GCEC96

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[linebckr83 3]

It might have something to do with how those graphs above look like they were made in Excel 2007 in about 3 minutes.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[rushmc 23]

Case in point

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/may/6/defense-budget-casualties-light-on-civilian-side/

Quote

The Pentagon's civilian workforce, which expanded dramatically during President Obama's first three years, is not facing any significant reductions even as the Defense Department is slashing ground troops by more than 10 percent, retiring ships and combat planes, and putting off the purchases of some new weapons.

President Bush's last budget, for fiscal 2009, pegged Defense Department civilians at 739,000, according to the department's latest "Green Book" budget document on total spending.

This year, the number of civilians sits at 801,000, an increase of 62,000 personnel, or 8 percent; it is expected to decline by 1 percent next year.

Some defense analysts say this was not supposed to happen.

In the summer of 2010, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates announced a series of cost-saving initiatives that included keeping civilian employees to that year's number of 778,000. The services started issuing press releases on the number of civilian jobs they had erased.

Two years later, civilian employment has risen by 23,000 personnel

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

Case in point

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/may/6/defense-budget-casualties-light-on-civilian-side/

Quote

The Pentagon's civilian workforce, which expanded dramatically during President Obama's first three years, is not facing any significant reductions even as the Defense Department is slashing ground troops by more than 10 percent, retiring ships and combat planes, and putting off the purchases of some new weapons.

President Bush's last budget, for fiscal 2009, pegged Defense Department civilians at 739,000, according to the department's latest "Green Book" budget document on total spending.

This year, the number of civilians sits at 801,000, an increase of 62,000 personnel, or 8 percent; it is expected to decline by 1 percent next year.

Some defense analysts say this was not supposed to happen.

In the summer of 2010, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates announced a series of cost-saving initiatives that included keeping civilian employees to that year's number of 778,000. The services started issuing press releases on the number of civilian jobs they had erased.

Two years later, civilian employment has risen by 23,000 personnel

To meet the mandated Super Committee Failure driven cuts, the Sec Def has just flat out axed Contracts with minimal notice and cut manning of Uniformed positions, but avoided streamlining redundant offices (like small arms research, uniforms research, A/C research etc). Most all the currently implemented down sizing was done by Gates, with graduation so all had a chance to adapt.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Case in point

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/may/6/defense-budget-casualties-light-on-civilian-side/

Quote

The Pentagon's civilian workforce, which expanded dramatically during President Obama's first three years, is not facing any significant reductions even as the Defense Department is slashing ground troops by more than 10 percent, retiring ships and combat planes, and putting off the purchases of some new weapons.

President Bush's last budget, for fiscal 2009, pegged Defense Department civilians at 739,000, according to the department's latest "Green Book" budget document on total spending.

This year, the number of civilians sits at 801,000, an increase of 62,000 personnel, or 8 percent; it is expected to decline by 1 percent next year.

Some defense analysts say this was not supposed to happen.

In the summer of 2010, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates announced a series of cost-saving initiatives that included keeping civilian employees to that year's number of 778,000. The services started issuing press releases on the number of civilian jobs they had erased.

Two years later, civilian employment has risen by 23,000 personnel

To meet the mandated Super Committee Failure driven cuts, the Sec Def has just flat out axed Contracts with minimal notice and cut manning of Uniformed positions, but avoided streamlining redundant offices (like small arms research, uniforms research, A/C research etc). Most all the currently implemented down sizing was done by Gates, with graduation so all had a chance to adapt.

Matt

True, and I understand that however, this thread is about the Fed gov getting smaller under Obama

If contractors and non-fed civilian employees are compared at the same time it shows the Fed gov is growing in numbers

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[airdvr 210]

Clear as mud. Your title says he is dramatically changing the role of government. Still waiting to see how the role has changed. All I see is how the number has changed, and that statistic is dramatically flawed.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

Hate to break it to you but firefighters are not federal employees and Romney has no control over hiring them.

True, but federal, state and local tax dollars all filter down to pay their salaries, and thus influences their hiring and firing. It's naive to think that federal money does not affect how big a fire department gets or how well they are paid.

And if Romney does not affect their wages, then why is campaigning like he does? I know, i know because he is a politician....

Go ahead and vote for Romney - it will be the biggest joke in 4 more years when the 'moderate' changes absolutely NOTHING.

More proof that the Federal Government is way too big and way too powerful. With your argument, we can now blame every local problem on the Feds.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Hardly. I understand the information I mentioned are counter-intuitive to what is usually reported in the media- but they are truthful numbers and they are hardly propaganda.

Same can be said for any USA Today factoid graph.

[GeorgiaDon 362]

Quote

To meet the mandated Super Committee Failure driven cuts, the Sec Def has just flat out axed Contracts with minimal notice and cut manning of Uniformed positions, but avoided streamlining redundant offices (like small arms research, uniforms research, A/C research etc).

So they still have the Department of Redundancy Department?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[tkhayes 348]

I hate to beak it to you but federal $$ have been funding states for decades- its not an 'Obama' problem

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

I hate to beak it to you but federal $$ have been funding states for decades- its not an 'Obama' problem

Yep, and now out of control spending has caught up to us to a point a few raised taxes wont fix it.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[popsjumper 2]

One size fits all statement:

The goobermint is not stupid. They know how to confuse the hell out of 'Mericans and make good use of the methods.

We, poor suckers that we are, have no earthly clue as to what they are really doing...we only get to see the resulting shit we have to wade around in.

One would think 'Mericans would get tired of wading around in shit but reality is that we bitch and moan but we like wading none-the-less.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[tkhayes 348]

I'm all for it - when di you write YOUR congressperson and ask them to change something - or are you just another right wing couch potato hoping that things will go your way?

wanna fight wars? Better pass a tax bill to fund it..... Don't want taxes, then stop fighting the wars.....and everything else that goes with it - Halliburton, Xe, outsourcing secret spying organizations, CIA external programs, FBi external programs, etc.