Marinus 0 #501 June 18, 2012 QuoteAnd that is the main point, those of us interested in a spiritual life do not use rationality to get there. For a long time I've thought the same thing: that spirituality is (a form of) irrationality. But it isn't, the wonder I feel when watching nature and contemplating on my place in the universe is also spirituality and maybe even its purest form. I often ask myself if the childish, imagination-free tales from the holy Books are able to induce the same feelings of wonder and awe nature induces in me. If there is a God, we should be reading his greatest work, and that's not some dusty old tome from the first century, but the Universe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,030 #502 June 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteWhat does it matter? It's still a scam. Has this scam cost you personally? Every $0.01 that goes to organized religion is $0.01 that could have gone into something productive for society. In a very real sense we all pay the cost. I just returned from Peru. In Cusco alone there is a cathedral with $millions worth of gold and silver in its various chapels, in a city that has hundreds of thousands of people living in grinding poverty. A short trip through the Vatican will show the plunder that organized religion has taken from society.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #503 June 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteUm, heaven...eternal, spiritual life...that's what this is all about, isn't it? All imaginary things. It's real...there is a God. You will either reject him and spend an eternity in Hell absent from Him (which is what you want, apparently) or you will accept Him and live spiritual life everlasting...it's up to you. That's all I can say...sorry. It is what it is... So you claim. Yet not a single shred of evidence exists to suggest that any god exists much less your specific god. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #504 June 18, 2012 QuoteAfter living a committed spiritual life, we acquire empirical evidence which provides the data for a spiritual rationality. Your "empirical evidence" is of such a low standard that it could be used to support any deity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #505 June 18, 2012 QuoteSounds pretty similar to eternal torture. Even if it was eternal bliss as some texts suggest. I can't imagine how boring that must be. Everything is effortless, risk-free and perfect. Only thinking about it makes me depressed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #506 June 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat does it matter? It's still a scam. Has this scam cost you personally? Every $0.01 that goes to organized religion is $0.01 that could have gone into something productive for society. In a very real sense we all pay the cost. I just returned from Peru. In Cusco alone there is a cathedral with $millions worth of gold and silver in its various chapels, in a city that has hundreds of thousands of people living in grinding poverty. A short trip through the Vatican will show the plunder that organized religion has taken from society. So what's your solution? Melt down all that gold and give it to the peasants? They would be poor again in a very short period of time. Or maybe the government could confiscate it and use it to improve their lot in life. Governments have such a stering record of doing so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #507 June 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteAfter living a committed spiritual life, we acquire empirical evidence which provides the data for a spiritual rationality. Your "empirical evidence" is of such a low standard that it could be used to support any deity. I don't have to prove anything... I'm just here to warn you.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #508 June 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteAfter living a committed spiritual life, we acquire empirical evidence which provides the data for a spiritual rationality. Your "empirical evidence" is of such a low standard that it could be used to support any deity. I don't have to prove anything... I'm just here to warn you. You made a claim and I am saying you have no evidence to back your claim. If you don't want to or can't produce any evidence to support your claims then your claims are nothing but empty talk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #509 June 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat does it matter? It's still a scam. Has this scam cost you personally? Every $0.01 that goes to organized religion is $0.01 that could have gone into something productive for society. In a very real sense we all pay the cost. I just returned from Peru. In Cusco alone there is a cathedral with $millions worth of gold and silver in its various chapels, in a city that has hundreds of thousands of people living in grinding poverty. A short trip through the Vatican will show the plunder that organized religion has taken from society. "And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light."Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #510 June 18, 2012 QuoteI don't have to prove anything... I'm just here to warn you. Get in line please. There's a line several miles long of people that warn me for all kinds of stuff like cigarettes, stem cells, alcohol, drugs, masturbation, super-AIDS, UFO's, the New World Order. ouija boards, the polar shift, a Yellowstone eruption, the Aurocalypse, airborne Ebola, Q-fever, Muslims, genetic engineering, Jews, the Chinese, Gays, astroid impacts, Harry Potter, porn, violent computer games, the rising sea-level, Eastern European immigrants, the White Man, multiculturalism, fascism, communism, capitalism, nanotechnology, and of course Christianity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #511 June 18, 2012 Quote "And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." While evil is sometimes in disguise, it usually is as subtle as 1000 dead Jews in a gas chamber or a plane in a skyscraper. Still some people are burning Harry Potter books, cause Satan might hide in those. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #512 June 18, 2012 QuoteFor a long time I've thought the same thing: that spirituality is (a form of) irrationality. But it isn't, the wonder I feel when watching nature and contemplating on my place in the universe is also spirituality and maybe even its purest form. I find this just as silly as going to a building every week and praying to a statue. Spirituality = religion IMHO it's a just a more PC way of saying it ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deltron80 0 #513 June 18, 2012 QuoteI don't have to prove anything... I'm just here to warn you. Haha...oh boy thanks for the warning! We're not afraid of your imaginary totalitarian dictator god who commands either eternal worship or eternal torture...that is completely absurd and even if it were true, a horrible god like that would not be worthy of our worship. You sound like one of those starving North Korean peasants praising their dear leader for his merciful bounty. Pathetic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #514 June 18, 2012 Christians always at some point devolve to thinly veiled threats. Like we are supposed to be afraid! I always find it amazing that they think we "hate" their god. It's the equivalent of saying we hate unicorns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #515 June 18, 2012 QuoteSo what's your solution? Start taxing churches.Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #516 June 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteSo what's your solution? Start taxing churches. that's a good action - a church is a business, it provides a service and should be taxed. that's easy. And I do hate unicorns - one killed my brother in 'Nam ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #517 June 18, 2012 QuoteChristians always at some point devolve to thinly veiled threats. It's not a threat...just looking out for you guys - trying to give ya'll a chance. I don't wanna hear you crying when you finally get your proof. "...and at the end of your life you groan, when your flesh and body are consumed, and you say, “How I hated discipline, and my heart despised reproof! I did not listen to the voice of my teachers or incline my ear to my instructors."Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #518 June 18, 2012 QuoteSpirituality = religion IMHO I don't really care what spiritually in your humble opinion is. QuoteSpirituality refers to an ultimate or an alleged immaterial reality; an inner path enabling a person to discover the essence of his/her being; or the "deepest values and meanings by which people live." Spiritual practices, including meditation, prayer and contemplation, are intended to develop an individual's inner life; spiritual experience includes that of connectedness with a larger reality, yielding a more comprehensive self; with other individuals or the human community; with nature or the cosmos; or with the divine realm. Spirituality is often experienced as a source of inspiration or orientation in life. It can encompass belief in immaterial realities or experiences of the immanent or transcendent nature of the world. Quoteit's a just a more PC way of saying it No it isn't, this statement is about just as silly as claiming that driving is a one dimensional activity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #519 June 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteChristians always at some point devolve to thinly veiled threats. It's not a threat...just looking out for you guys - trying to give ya'll a chance. I don't wanna hear you crying when you finally get your proof. "...and at the end of your life you groan, when your flesh and body are consumed, and you say, “How I hated discipline, and my heart despised reproof! I did not listen to the voice of my teachers or incline my ear to my instructors." You don't seem to understand what a threat is. You say if we don't believe like you do, that we will suffer a horrible end. That is a threat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #520 June 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteSo what's your solution? Start taxing churches. Should all charities be taxed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #521 June 18, 2012 Churches aren't charities. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #522 June 18, 2012 QuoteChurches aren't charities. They do charitable work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #523 June 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteChristians always at some point devolve to thinly veiled threats. It's not a threat...just looking out for you guys - trying to give ya'll a chance. I don't wanna hear you crying when you finally get your proof. "...and at the end of your life you groan, when your flesh and body are consumed, and you say, “How I hated discipline, and my heart despised reproof! I did not listen to the voice of my teachers or incline my ear to my instructors." You don't seem to understand what a threat is. You say if we don't believe like you do, that we will suffer a horrible end. That is a threat. You don't seem to understand what a warning is...are you always this defensive? If somebody warns you of bad areas you may encounter during your travels do you tell them to fuck off? "The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty."Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #524 June 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteChristians always at some point devolve to thinly veiled threats. It's not a threat...just looking out for you guys - trying to give ya'll a chance. I don't wanna hear you crying when you finally get your proof. "...and at the end of your life you groan, when your flesh and body are consumed, and you say, “How I hated discipline, and my heart despised reproof! I did not listen to the voice of my teachers or incline my ear to my instructors." You don't seem to understand what a threat is. You say if we don't believe like you do, that we will suffer a horrible end. That is a threat. You don't seem to understand what a warning is...are you always this defensive? If somebody warns you of bad areas you may encounter during your travels do you tell them to fuck off? "The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty." Your claims of this danger are baseless and have no evidence to support them. So why would I take them seriously. Your "warning" doesn't come across as a warning. You are saying believe this or else and even more you don't provide any credible evidence to back it up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #525 June 18, 2012 QuoteYour claims of this danger are baseless and have no evidence to support them. So why would I take them seriously. Be my guest...go on and feel free to see for yourself if you must. Your choice...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
