steve1 5 #26 May 29, 2012 I hadn't been in town very long before I was a proud owner of a model 26, baby Glock. I know I should have fired some other guns first. That Gen. 4 handle really fits my hand well,(even though it is a double stack). I've never shot at an indoor range. All my shooting has been outside. The next day I found one of three indoor ranges in Billings. I ran a target out to about ten yards. I wanted to make sure it was shooting on. I fired a few rounds from a rest. I realed the target back in, and the group was right on the money. No site adjustment was needed. I then proceeded to run about a 100 rounds through this little pistol. It shoots like a dream....I love it. I bought a magazine extension for one magazine. This would allow all four fingers to fit on the handle. It feels much better. I'm going to do some experimenting with it. I later went to my daughter's house, and told her the good news. The next day we returned to a Sporting Goods store, and traded in her snubby 38 revolver.....It never did shoot very well, even though it was a handy little package. My daughter bought a baby Glock too. She's a good safe shooter, and I'll bet she'll love this new pistol. I'd like to say that those indoor ranges are a blast. The next thing I need to find is a cheap supply of ammo.... The only problem I'm having is finding a way to carry this pistol concealed. I bought an inside the belt leather holster. I tried putting it a little right of center of the back. Maybe I need to find some bigger fitting pants. It's pretty uncomfortable. I'll do some more experimenting with this. Last week an FBI agent came into my office. First thing he did was show me his I.D. I thought, Oh Shit! what did I do now? He came in to check out a death threat someone had made....one of my clients. I work with some real crazy people At any rate, I looked this guy over. I knew he had to be packing a heater someplace. His shirt was out and over his belt. I'll bet he had an inside the pant holster of some sort. Some of this concealed carry stuff is still a mystery to me. Thanks for the input so far. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #27 May 29, 2012 My most recent purchase is a S&W .38 +P airweight. Easy to conceal even wearing Florida summer clothes.You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #28 May 29, 2012 Good purchase and a good deal to hear that your still learning! We never stop do we? Learning that is. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #29 May 29, 2012 Quote For concealed carry I have my eye on a Baby Glock gen 4, in 9mm. My brother has one and loves it. Another friend (who was a police chief) has one, and has nothing but good to say about it. Another police friend has a Baby Glock in 357 Sig. He says that he would recommend a 9mm because of the recoil, in that small of a gun. My brother says the FBI is now recommending 9mm over the other calibers, because they are easier to hit with. In that small of a pistol moderate recoil could be a problem. Shot well, the 9mm is lethal enough. The fans of bigger slugs have physics on their side, but you get all the downsides of it as well, including much pricier ammo. 9mm is cheaper to shoot and easier on the body as well, and for all you lucky ones outside of CA like states you have options for 15+ round magazines. In any event, nothing prevents you from buying a 40 or 45 later in the process. The 357 Sig would not be my choice for a defensive handgun. It's fucking fun to shoot - huge boom, huge flash, but it's built to penetrate and I'd hate to have that in a home situation where there are thins walls with unknown targets behind. (Nevermind the blinding/deafening) Sig v Glock is a different story...let your hands decide. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #30 May 29, 2012 CZ 52 is where it's at. 7.62x25 You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #31 May 30, 2012 The 357 Sig would not be my choice for a defensive handgun. Quote IIRC, that round was designed to match the S&W .357 in performance. Which when used with a 125 SJHP has the highest numbers of one shot kills. It's about the best 'compromise' of weight, speed, accuracy & recoil available. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #32 May 30, 2012 QuoteMy brother says the FBI is now recommending 9mm over the other calibers, because they are easier to hit with. The trigger matters more than the caliber when trying to hit the target.... Yes, 9mm is more a more accurate round than say a 40, but the difference is not significant to most shooters.... The weak part of the system is the shooter, not the round. QuoteThe sights are drift adjustable, which is good. Worthless in an SD weapon. At the ranges you are shooting drift adjustable sights are just one more screw to get loose. Quote Any further advice on this?? I've learned a lot from you guys. Glocks are hard to beat for an SD gun. One thing most people do not consider is the actions AFTER the engagement. Guns like 1911's need to be put on safe before you put them down or reholster. SIGS need the hammer dropped. When all hell breaks loose, you are not going to be calm... Simple is better. Glocks, the Springfield XD are good examples of simple "point and click" weapons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #33 May 30, 2012 Worthless in an SD weapon. At the ranges you are shooting drift adjustable sights are just one more screw to get loose. Quote Do you understand how drift adjustable sights work? No screws... You need a special tool, or a brass punch & a ball peen hammer to adjust them... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #34 May 30, 2012 Quote The 357 Sig would not be my choice for a defensive handgun. Quote IIRC, that round was designed to match the S&W .357 in performance. Which when used with a 125 SJHP has the highest numbers of one shot kills. It's about the best 'compromise' of weight, speed, accuracy & recoil available. I bet it does. If you hit your mark, it's going down hard. It would also be great if your opposition is behind a car door. But in an apartment building, I'd be very concerned (and responsible for considering) about how many rooms a round could pass through. This is perhaps the best attribute of the slower, big .45. In terms of scaring away a bunch of hoods with one shot, my .229 357sig is perfect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #35 May 30, 2012 But in an apartment building... Quote You should use a shotgun with 71/2 shot or smaller, concealed carry and home defense are two different things. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #36 May 30, 2012 QuoteBut in an apartment building... Quote You should use a shotgun with 71/2 shot or smaller, concealed carry and home defense are two different things. fair enough, but a street setting has buildings nearby as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #37 May 30, 2012 Quote Quote But in an apartment building... Quote You should use a shotgun with 71/2 shot or smaller, concealed carry and home defense are two different things. fair enough, but a street setting has buildings nearby as well. That's why you clear your background prior to firing, there are pedestrians & playgrounds in street settings too. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #38 May 30, 2012 Quote Yes.... The front site post is filed down and rounded as to remove the snag hazard... Afterward, You have a small "HILL" that is smooth and can't get snagged on your holster, snag on your underwear or shirt.... If you want ... I'll go and goggle you MORE facts to back-up working the front site post.... Facts? Do you advocate putting the first round into the ground to rattle the other guy, too? This isn't the Wild West anymore - my holster covers the front sight. Even the FBI hasn't taught the Speed Rock in years. Quote Now, I'm Done playing your little game.... Go kill some paper, Don't forget to hold a good site picture well slowly squeezing the trigger... Killler.... Funny how those master class action shooters (you know, the guys that can draw and get AIMED rounds on paper under a second or so) aren't filing their front sights or point shooting. I think I'll stick with their examples rather than yours, thanks.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites devildog 0 #39 May 30, 2012 Bird shot is not the way to go with a shot gun load. It's penetration is horrible, and there are plenty of cases where people took a load of bird shot that just left them pissed. Check out the penetration on it. http://www.brassfetcher.com/Shotguns/Bird%201%20Side%20View.JPG It's pretty crappy. Some comparison of buckshot loads: http://www.chuckhawks.com/home_defense_shotgun_ammo.htm QuoteThe Firearms Tactical Institute reports: "Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body." Generally available candidates include: Remington Express Buckshot 12B1 (1250 fps, 16 pellets #1 Buck). Remington Express Buckshot 12B0 (1275 fps, 12 pellets #0 Buck). Winchester Super-X XB121 (1250 fps, 16 pellets #1 Buck). edit: Here's a better link to lots of gel tests: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #40 May 30, 2012 Quote Did you see me say... SPRAY and PRAY you hit something???? You need to stop and "READ" ... Read what I wrote... I told him to be ready for a GUN FIGHT.. Not ready to kill a paper target... I can tell you that almost every gun fight is in VERY close range and are over in a few seconds... Well your trying to get a site picture.... I'll have three rounds in you... BODY, HEAD, Body.... Most guys that I know , File the front site down smooth as to not hang up on the draw... Sometimes, I wonder why I still get sucked in on these forums... It's a waste of time... No one reads the WHOLE thread or post... They see what they want... You keep killing your paper targets.... I can show you HUNDREDS of paper killers that could not hit a gun man in a gun fight.... Hell... The gunman in the LA bank shoot-out got so tried... He shot himself in the head... Door..... If filing down the front sight is smart, then why doesn't anyone in the military or police dept. do that? Most gun fights are up close and personal, but not all are. It would be good to practice just pointing and shooting up close, but knowing how to use the sights are important too. Maybe just focussing on the front sight and blurring out the back sight is good for shooting a little further out. For a longer shot it's important to use both sights and have the right trigger control. Not everyone has a rifle on their back to use for a longer shot. You might have to make due with a pistol. There was one bad guy who was in the process of killing one person after another. A cop took him out from about 75 yards. He used his service pistol....You know he used the sights for that. Another scenario. Suppose a bad guy has a hostage, and you have to make a head shot. How are you going to do that, with no sights? I'm sure there are lot's of other scenarios, a person could think up.....but I want a weapon that is good for more than just point blank shooting. A lot of the concealed carry pistols are very very inaccurate. The fixed sights might be off. My daughter's 38 was like that. It shot very big groups. We traded it off on a better pistol. I need to do some more testing with my little Glock. It seems to shoot very small groups,(for such a small pistol). To me that is important. I read one gun review that said that the baby Glock will shoot as well as the bigger model 19. I'm sure there are more accurate pistols than Glock, but I'm happy with the accuracy I've seen so far. The baby Glock has a dove tail rear sight. I've never, ever, seen a sight like that move, unless you use a hammer and punch on it. I don't think that is anything to worry about. I've seen some fixed sights that need adjustment, yet you can't move them. I won't buy another gun like that again. Someone talked me into that kind of sight earlier, and sure enough it was off, a lot.... I guess we argued all this earlier.... I'm happy to be a target shooter. How else do you improve your shooting ability. I've shot thousands of rounds at silhouettes in the military. I'm happy to say that I've never pulled the trigger on another human being. I hope it stays that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #41 May 30, 2012 Quote Do you understand how drift adjustable sights work? "Most "adjustable" rear sights on handguns are marked to show you which way is up: A counterclockwise movement of the screw is usually going to raise the point of impact. A clockwise movement of the windage screw will usually move the point of impact to the right." Some not all. Quote No screws... Again, some not all. Quote You need a special tool, or a brass punch & a ball peen hammer to adjust them...Wink Or a screwdriver depending on type If you are referring to only one type of drift adjustable sight... fine. But there is more than one type. I had a buddy with a Glock with "Drift Adjustable" sights.... Said so right on the package he bought. It was adjusted by a small screw. It also broke when he was doing weapons manipulations. So yes, if you want to claim there is only one type of sight... fine. But that is not true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #42 May 30, 2012 Learn something new every day! The only type I have are dovetailed in and definitely not easily adjustable...no screws. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites killler 2 #43 May 30, 2012 Old carry weapon http://www.coolclimbing.com/images/guns/pistols/browning_hipower01.jpg I have seen light guy's.... This will be my new concealed carry weaponhttp://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Glock-19-with-additions.jpg I like that I'll be able to mount a flash light on the quad rail , But I'll only do that at night.. killler.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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DaVinci 0 #32 May 30, 2012 QuoteMy brother says the FBI is now recommending 9mm over the other calibers, because they are easier to hit with. The trigger matters more than the caliber when trying to hit the target.... Yes, 9mm is more a more accurate round than say a 40, but the difference is not significant to most shooters.... The weak part of the system is the shooter, not the round. QuoteThe sights are drift adjustable, which is good. Worthless in an SD weapon. At the ranges you are shooting drift adjustable sights are just one more screw to get loose. Quote Any further advice on this?? I've learned a lot from you guys. Glocks are hard to beat for an SD gun. One thing most people do not consider is the actions AFTER the engagement. Guns like 1911's need to be put on safe before you put them down or reholster. SIGS need the hammer dropped. When all hell breaks loose, you are not going to be calm... Simple is better. Glocks, the Springfield XD are good examples of simple "point and click" weapons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #33 May 30, 2012 Worthless in an SD weapon. At the ranges you are shooting drift adjustable sights are just one more screw to get loose. Quote Do you understand how drift adjustable sights work? No screws... You need a special tool, or a brass punch & a ball peen hammer to adjust them... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #34 May 30, 2012 Quote The 357 Sig would not be my choice for a defensive handgun. Quote IIRC, that round was designed to match the S&W .357 in performance. Which when used with a 125 SJHP has the highest numbers of one shot kills. It's about the best 'compromise' of weight, speed, accuracy & recoil available. I bet it does. If you hit your mark, it's going down hard. It would also be great if your opposition is behind a car door. But in an apartment building, I'd be very concerned (and responsible for considering) about how many rooms a round could pass through. This is perhaps the best attribute of the slower, big .45. In terms of scaring away a bunch of hoods with one shot, my .229 357sig is perfect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #35 May 30, 2012 But in an apartment building... Quote You should use a shotgun with 71/2 shot or smaller, concealed carry and home defense are two different things. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #36 May 30, 2012 QuoteBut in an apartment building... Quote You should use a shotgun with 71/2 shot or smaller, concealed carry and home defense are two different things. fair enough, but a street setting has buildings nearby as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #37 May 30, 2012 Quote Quote But in an apartment building... Quote You should use a shotgun with 71/2 shot or smaller, concealed carry and home defense are two different things. fair enough, but a street setting has buildings nearby as well. That's why you clear your background prior to firing, there are pedestrians & playgrounds in street settings too. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #38 May 30, 2012 Quote Yes.... The front site post is filed down and rounded as to remove the snag hazard... Afterward, You have a small "HILL" that is smooth and can't get snagged on your holster, snag on your underwear or shirt.... If you want ... I'll go and goggle you MORE facts to back-up working the front site post.... Facts? Do you advocate putting the first round into the ground to rattle the other guy, too? This isn't the Wild West anymore - my holster covers the front sight. Even the FBI hasn't taught the Speed Rock in years. Quote Now, I'm Done playing your little game.... Go kill some paper, Don't forget to hold a good site picture well slowly squeezing the trigger... Killler.... Funny how those master class action shooters (you know, the guys that can draw and get AIMED rounds on paper under a second or so) aren't filing their front sights or point shooting. I think I'll stick with their examples rather than yours, thanks.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites devildog 0 #39 May 30, 2012 Bird shot is not the way to go with a shot gun load. It's penetration is horrible, and there are plenty of cases where people took a load of bird shot that just left them pissed. Check out the penetration on it. http://www.brassfetcher.com/Shotguns/Bird%201%20Side%20View.JPG It's pretty crappy. Some comparison of buckshot loads: http://www.chuckhawks.com/home_defense_shotgun_ammo.htm QuoteThe Firearms Tactical Institute reports: "Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body." Generally available candidates include: Remington Express Buckshot 12B1 (1250 fps, 16 pellets #1 Buck). Remington Express Buckshot 12B0 (1275 fps, 12 pellets #0 Buck). Winchester Super-X XB121 (1250 fps, 16 pellets #1 Buck). edit: Here's a better link to lots of gel tests: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #40 May 30, 2012 Quote Did you see me say... SPRAY and PRAY you hit something???? You need to stop and "READ" ... Read what I wrote... I told him to be ready for a GUN FIGHT.. Not ready to kill a paper target... I can tell you that almost every gun fight is in VERY close range and are over in a few seconds... Well your trying to get a site picture.... I'll have three rounds in you... BODY, HEAD, Body.... Most guys that I know , File the front site down smooth as to not hang up on the draw... Sometimes, I wonder why I still get sucked in on these forums... It's a waste of time... No one reads the WHOLE thread or post... They see what they want... You keep killing your paper targets.... I can show you HUNDREDS of paper killers that could not hit a gun man in a gun fight.... Hell... The gunman in the LA bank shoot-out got so tried... He shot himself in the head... Door..... If filing down the front sight is smart, then why doesn't anyone in the military or police dept. do that? Most gun fights are up close and personal, but not all are. It would be good to practice just pointing and shooting up close, but knowing how to use the sights are important too. Maybe just focussing on the front sight and blurring out the back sight is good for shooting a little further out. For a longer shot it's important to use both sights and have the right trigger control. Not everyone has a rifle on their back to use for a longer shot. You might have to make due with a pistol. There was one bad guy who was in the process of killing one person after another. A cop took him out from about 75 yards. He used his service pistol....You know he used the sights for that. Another scenario. Suppose a bad guy has a hostage, and you have to make a head shot. How are you going to do that, with no sights? I'm sure there are lot's of other scenarios, a person could think up.....but I want a weapon that is good for more than just point blank shooting. A lot of the concealed carry pistols are very very inaccurate. The fixed sights might be off. My daughter's 38 was like that. It shot very big groups. We traded it off on a better pistol. I need to do some more testing with my little Glock. It seems to shoot very small groups,(for such a small pistol). To me that is important. I read one gun review that said that the baby Glock will shoot as well as the bigger model 19. I'm sure there are more accurate pistols than Glock, but I'm happy with the accuracy I've seen so far. The baby Glock has a dove tail rear sight. I've never, ever, seen a sight like that move, unless you use a hammer and punch on it. I don't think that is anything to worry about. I've seen some fixed sights that need adjustment, yet you can't move them. I won't buy another gun like that again. Someone talked me into that kind of sight earlier, and sure enough it was off, a lot.... I guess we argued all this earlier.... I'm happy to be a target shooter. How else do you improve your shooting ability. I've shot thousands of rounds at silhouettes in the military. I'm happy to say that I've never pulled the trigger on another human being. I hope it stays that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #41 May 30, 2012 Quote Do you understand how drift adjustable sights work? "Most "adjustable" rear sights on handguns are marked to show you which way is up: A counterclockwise movement of the screw is usually going to raise the point of impact. A clockwise movement of the windage screw will usually move the point of impact to the right." Some not all. Quote No screws... Again, some not all. Quote You need a special tool, or a brass punch & a ball peen hammer to adjust them...Wink Or a screwdriver depending on type If you are referring to only one type of drift adjustable sight... fine. But there is more than one type. I had a buddy with a Glock with "Drift Adjustable" sights.... Said so right on the package he bought. It was adjusted by a small screw. It also broke when he was doing weapons manipulations. So yes, if you want to claim there is only one type of sight... fine. But that is not true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #42 May 30, 2012 Learn something new every day! The only type I have are dovetailed in and definitely not easily adjustable...no screws. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites killler 2 #43 May 30, 2012 Old carry weapon http://www.coolclimbing.com/images/guns/pistols/browning_hipower01.jpg I have seen light guy's.... This will be my new concealed carry weaponhttp://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Glock-19-with-additions.jpg I like that I'll be able to mount a flash light on the quad rail , But I'll only do that at night.. killler.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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airtwardo 7 #35 May 30, 2012 But in an apartment building... Quote You should use a shotgun with 71/2 shot or smaller, concealed carry and home defense are two different things. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #36 May 30, 2012 QuoteBut in an apartment building... Quote You should use a shotgun with 71/2 shot or smaller, concealed carry and home defense are two different things. fair enough, but a street setting has buildings nearby as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #37 May 30, 2012 Quote Quote But in an apartment building... Quote You should use a shotgun with 71/2 shot or smaller, concealed carry and home defense are two different things. fair enough, but a street setting has buildings nearby as well. That's why you clear your background prior to firing, there are pedestrians & playgrounds in street settings too. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #38 May 30, 2012 Quote Yes.... The front site post is filed down and rounded as to remove the snag hazard... Afterward, You have a small "HILL" that is smooth and can't get snagged on your holster, snag on your underwear or shirt.... If you want ... I'll go and goggle you MORE facts to back-up working the front site post.... Facts? Do you advocate putting the first round into the ground to rattle the other guy, too? This isn't the Wild West anymore - my holster covers the front sight. Even the FBI hasn't taught the Speed Rock in years. Quote Now, I'm Done playing your little game.... Go kill some paper, Don't forget to hold a good site picture well slowly squeezing the trigger... Killler.... Funny how those master class action shooters (you know, the guys that can draw and get AIMED rounds on paper under a second or so) aren't filing their front sights or point shooting. I think I'll stick with their examples rather than yours, thanks.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites devildog 0 #39 May 30, 2012 Bird shot is not the way to go with a shot gun load. It's penetration is horrible, and there are plenty of cases where people took a load of bird shot that just left them pissed. Check out the penetration on it. http://www.brassfetcher.com/Shotguns/Bird%201%20Side%20View.JPG It's pretty crappy. Some comparison of buckshot loads: http://www.chuckhawks.com/home_defense_shotgun_ammo.htm QuoteThe Firearms Tactical Institute reports: "Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body." Generally available candidates include: Remington Express Buckshot 12B1 (1250 fps, 16 pellets #1 Buck). Remington Express Buckshot 12B0 (1275 fps, 12 pellets #0 Buck). Winchester Super-X XB121 (1250 fps, 16 pellets #1 Buck). edit: Here's a better link to lots of gel tests: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #40 May 30, 2012 Quote Did you see me say... SPRAY and PRAY you hit something???? You need to stop and "READ" ... Read what I wrote... I told him to be ready for a GUN FIGHT.. Not ready to kill a paper target... I can tell you that almost every gun fight is in VERY close range and are over in a few seconds... Well your trying to get a site picture.... I'll have three rounds in you... BODY, HEAD, Body.... Most guys that I know , File the front site down smooth as to not hang up on the draw... Sometimes, I wonder why I still get sucked in on these forums... It's a waste of time... No one reads the WHOLE thread or post... They see what they want... You keep killing your paper targets.... I can show you HUNDREDS of paper killers that could not hit a gun man in a gun fight.... Hell... The gunman in the LA bank shoot-out got so tried... He shot himself in the head... Door..... If filing down the front sight is smart, then why doesn't anyone in the military or police dept. do that? Most gun fights are up close and personal, but not all are. It would be good to practice just pointing and shooting up close, but knowing how to use the sights are important too. Maybe just focussing on the front sight and blurring out the back sight is good for shooting a little further out. For a longer shot it's important to use both sights and have the right trigger control. Not everyone has a rifle on their back to use for a longer shot. You might have to make due with a pistol. There was one bad guy who was in the process of killing one person after another. A cop took him out from about 75 yards. He used his service pistol....You know he used the sights for that. Another scenario. Suppose a bad guy has a hostage, and you have to make a head shot. How are you going to do that, with no sights? I'm sure there are lot's of other scenarios, a person could think up.....but I want a weapon that is good for more than just point blank shooting. A lot of the concealed carry pistols are very very inaccurate. The fixed sights might be off. My daughter's 38 was like that. It shot very big groups. We traded it off on a better pistol. I need to do some more testing with my little Glock. It seems to shoot very small groups,(for such a small pistol). To me that is important. I read one gun review that said that the baby Glock will shoot as well as the bigger model 19. I'm sure there are more accurate pistols than Glock, but I'm happy with the accuracy I've seen so far. The baby Glock has a dove tail rear sight. I've never, ever, seen a sight like that move, unless you use a hammer and punch on it. I don't think that is anything to worry about. I've seen some fixed sights that need adjustment, yet you can't move them. I won't buy another gun like that again. Someone talked me into that kind of sight earlier, and sure enough it was off, a lot.... I guess we argued all this earlier.... I'm happy to be a target shooter. How else do you improve your shooting ability. I've shot thousands of rounds at silhouettes in the military. I'm happy to say that I've never pulled the trigger on another human being. I hope it stays that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #41 May 30, 2012 Quote Do you understand how drift adjustable sights work? "Most "adjustable" rear sights on handguns are marked to show you which way is up: A counterclockwise movement of the screw is usually going to raise the point of impact. A clockwise movement of the windage screw will usually move the point of impact to the right." Some not all. Quote No screws... Again, some not all. Quote You need a special tool, or a brass punch & a ball peen hammer to adjust them...Wink Or a screwdriver depending on type If you are referring to only one type of drift adjustable sight... fine. But there is more than one type. I had a buddy with a Glock with "Drift Adjustable" sights.... Said so right on the package he bought. It was adjusted by a small screw. It also broke when he was doing weapons manipulations. So yes, if you want to claim there is only one type of sight... fine. But that is not true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #42 May 30, 2012 Learn something new every day! The only type I have are dovetailed in and definitely not easily adjustable...no screws. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites killler 2 #43 May 30, 2012 Old carry weapon http://www.coolclimbing.com/images/guns/pistols/browning_hipower01.jpg I have seen light guy's.... This will be my new concealed carry weaponhttp://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Glock-19-with-additions.jpg I like that I'll be able to mount a flash light on the quad rail , But I'll only do that at night.. killler.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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kelpdiver 2 #36 May 30, 2012 QuoteBut in an apartment building... Quote You should use a shotgun with 71/2 shot or smaller, concealed carry and home defense are two different things. fair enough, but a street setting has buildings nearby as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #37 May 30, 2012 Quote Quote But in an apartment building... Quote You should use a shotgun with 71/2 shot or smaller, concealed carry and home defense are two different things. fair enough, but a street setting has buildings nearby as well. That's why you clear your background prior to firing, there are pedestrians & playgrounds in street settings too. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #38 May 30, 2012 Quote Yes.... The front site post is filed down and rounded as to remove the snag hazard... Afterward, You have a small "HILL" that is smooth and can't get snagged on your holster, snag on your underwear or shirt.... If you want ... I'll go and goggle you MORE facts to back-up working the front site post.... Facts? Do you advocate putting the first round into the ground to rattle the other guy, too? This isn't the Wild West anymore - my holster covers the front sight. Even the FBI hasn't taught the Speed Rock in years. Quote Now, I'm Done playing your little game.... Go kill some paper, Don't forget to hold a good site picture well slowly squeezing the trigger... Killler.... Funny how those master class action shooters (you know, the guys that can draw and get AIMED rounds on paper under a second or so) aren't filing their front sights or point shooting. I think I'll stick with their examples rather than yours, thanks.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites devildog 0 #39 May 30, 2012 Bird shot is not the way to go with a shot gun load. It's penetration is horrible, and there are plenty of cases where people took a load of bird shot that just left them pissed. Check out the penetration on it. http://www.brassfetcher.com/Shotguns/Bird%201%20Side%20View.JPG It's pretty crappy. Some comparison of buckshot loads: http://www.chuckhawks.com/home_defense_shotgun_ammo.htm QuoteThe Firearms Tactical Institute reports: "Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body." Generally available candidates include: Remington Express Buckshot 12B1 (1250 fps, 16 pellets #1 Buck). Remington Express Buckshot 12B0 (1275 fps, 12 pellets #0 Buck). Winchester Super-X XB121 (1250 fps, 16 pellets #1 Buck). edit: Here's a better link to lots of gel tests: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #40 May 30, 2012 Quote Did you see me say... SPRAY and PRAY you hit something???? You need to stop and "READ" ... Read what I wrote... I told him to be ready for a GUN FIGHT.. Not ready to kill a paper target... I can tell you that almost every gun fight is in VERY close range and are over in a few seconds... Well your trying to get a site picture.... I'll have three rounds in you... BODY, HEAD, Body.... Most guys that I know , File the front site down smooth as to not hang up on the draw... Sometimes, I wonder why I still get sucked in on these forums... It's a waste of time... No one reads the WHOLE thread or post... They see what they want... You keep killing your paper targets.... I can show you HUNDREDS of paper killers that could not hit a gun man in a gun fight.... Hell... The gunman in the LA bank shoot-out got so tried... He shot himself in the head... Door..... If filing down the front sight is smart, then why doesn't anyone in the military or police dept. do that? Most gun fights are up close and personal, but not all are. It would be good to practice just pointing and shooting up close, but knowing how to use the sights are important too. Maybe just focussing on the front sight and blurring out the back sight is good for shooting a little further out. For a longer shot it's important to use both sights and have the right trigger control. Not everyone has a rifle on their back to use for a longer shot. You might have to make due with a pistol. There was one bad guy who was in the process of killing one person after another. A cop took him out from about 75 yards. He used his service pistol....You know he used the sights for that. Another scenario. Suppose a bad guy has a hostage, and you have to make a head shot. How are you going to do that, with no sights? I'm sure there are lot's of other scenarios, a person could think up.....but I want a weapon that is good for more than just point blank shooting. A lot of the concealed carry pistols are very very inaccurate. The fixed sights might be off. My daughter's 38 was like that. It shot very big groups. We traded it off on a better pistol. I need to do some more testing with my little Glock. It seems to shoot very small groups,(for such a small pistol). To me that is important. I read one gun review that said that the baby Glock will shoot as well as the bigger model 19. I'm sure there are more accurate pistols than Glock, but I'm happy with the accuracy I've seen so far. The baby Glock has a dove tail rear sight. I've never, ever, seen a sight like that move, unless you use a hammer and punch on it. I don't think that is anything to worry about. I've seen some fixed sights that need adjustment, yet you can't move them. I won't buy another gun like that again. Someone talked me into that kind of sight earlier, and sure enough it was off, a lot.... I guess we argued all this earlier.... I'm happy to be a target shooter. How else do you improve your shooting ability. I've shot thousands of rounds at silhouettes in the military. I'm happy to say that I've never pulled the trigger on another human being. I hope it stays that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #41 May 30, 2012 Quote Do you understand how drift adjustable sights work? "Most "adjustable" rear sights on handguns are marked to show you which way is up: A counterclockwise movement of the screw is usually going to raise the point of impact. A clockwise movement of the windage screw will usually move the point of impact to the right." Some not all. Quote No screws... Again, some not all. Quote You need a special tool, or a brass punch & a ball peen hammer to adjust them...Wink Or a screwdriver depending on type If you are referring to only one type of drift adjustable sight... fine. But there is more than one type. I had a buddy with a Glock with "Drift Adjustable" sights.... Said so right on the package he bought. It was adjusted by a small screw. It also broke when he was doing weapons manipulations. So yes, if you want to claim there is only one type of sight... fine. But that is not true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #42 May 30, 2012 Learn something new every day! The only type I have are dovetailed in and definitely not easily adjustable...no screws. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites killler 2 #43 May 30, 2012 Old carry weapon http://www.coolclimbing.com/images/guns/pistols/browning_hipower01.jpg I have seen light guy's.... This will be my new concealed carry weaponhttp://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Glock-19-with-additions.jpg I like that I'll be able to mount a flash light on the quad rail , But I'll only do that at night.. killler.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
airtwardo 7 #37 May 30, 2012 Quote Quote But in an apartment building... Quote You should use a shotgun with 71/2 shot or smaller, concealed carry and home defense are two different things. fair enough, but a street setting has buildings nearby as well. That's why you clear your background prior to firing, there are pedestrians & playgrounds in street settings too. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #38 May 30, 2012 Quote Yes.... The front site post is filed down and rounded as to remove the snag hazard... Afterward, You have a small "HILL" that is smooth and can't get snagged on your holster, snag on your underwear or shirt.... If you want ... I'll go and goggle you MORE facts to back-up working the front site post.... Facts? Do you advocate putting the first round into the ground to rattle the other guy, too? This isn't the Wild West anymore - my holster covers the front sight. Even the FBI hasn't taught the Speed Rock in years. Quote Now, I'm Done playing your little game.... Go kill some paper, Don't forget to hold a good site picture well slowly squeezing the trigger... Killler.... Funny how those master class action shooters (you know, the guys that can draw and get AIMED rounds on paper under a second or so) aren't filing their front sights or point shooting. I think I'll stick with their examples rather than yours, thanks.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #39 May 30, 2012 Bird shot is not the way to go with a shot gun load. It's penetration is horrible, and there are plenty of cases where people took a load of bird shot that just left them pissed. Check out the penetration on it. http://www.brassfetcher.com/Shotguns/Bird%201%20Side%20View.JPG It's pretty crappy. Some comparison of buckshot loads: http://www.chuckhawks.com/home_defense_shotgun_ammo.htm QuoteThe Firearms Tactical Institute reports: "Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body." Generally available candidates include: Remington Express Buckshot 12B1 (1250 fps, 16 pellets #1 Buck). Remington Express Buckshot 12B0 (1275 fps, 12 pellets #0 Buck). Winchester Super-X XB121 (1250 fps, 16 pellets #1 Buck). edit: Here's a better link to lots of gel tests: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #40 May 30, 2012 Quote Did you see me say... SPRAY and PRAY you hit something???? You need to stop and "READ" ... Read what I wrote... I told him to be ready for a GUN FIGHT.. Not ready to kill a paper target... I can tell you that almost every gun fight is in VERY close range and are over in a few seconds... Well your trying to get a site picture.... I'll have three rounds in you... BODY, HEAD, Body.... Most guys that I know , File the front site down smooth as to not hang up on the draw... Sometimes, I wonder why I still get sucked in on these forums... It's a waste of time... No one reads the WHOLE thread or post... They see what they want... You keep killing your paper targets.... I can show you HUNDREDS of paper killers that could not hit a gun man in a gun fight.... Hell... The gunman in the LA bank shoot-out got so tried... He shot himself in the head... Door..... If filing down the front sight is smart, then why doesn't anyone in the military or police dept. do that? Most gun fights are up close and personal, but not all are. It would be good to practice just pointing and shooting up close, but knowing how to use the sights are important too. Maybe just focussing on the front sight and blurring out the back sight is good for shooting a little further out. For a longer shot it's important to use both sights and have the right trigger control. Not everyone has a rifle on their back to use for a longer shot. You might have to make due with a pistol. There was one bad guy who was in the process of killing one person after another. A cop took him out from about 75 yards. He used his service pistol....You know he used the sights for that. Another scenario. Suppose a bad guy has a hostage, and you have to make a head shot. How are you going to do that, with no sights? I'm sure there are lot's of other scenarios, a person could think up.....but I want a weapon that is good for more than just point blank shooting. A lot of the concealed carry pistols are very very inaccurate. The fixed sights might be off. My daughter's 38 was like that. It shot very big groups. We traded it off on a better pistol. I need to do some more testing with my little Glock. It seems to shoot very small groups,(for such a small pistol). To me that is important. I read one gun review that said that the baby Glock will shoot as well as the bigger model 19. I'm sure there are more accurate pistols than Glock, but I'm happy with the accuracy I've seen so far. The baby Glock has a dove tail rear sight. I've never, ever, seen a sight like that move, unless you use a hammer and punch on it. I don't think that is anything to worry about. I've seen some fixed sights that need adjustment, yet you can't move them. I won't buy another gun like that again. Someone talked me into that kind of sight earlier, and sure enough it was off, a lot.... I guess we argued all this earlier.... I'm happy to be a target shooter. How else do you improve your shooting ability. I've shot thousands of rounds at silhouettes in the military. I'm happy to say that I've never pulled the trigger on another human being. I hope it stays that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #41 May 30, 2012 Quote Do you understand how drift adjustable sights work? "Most "adjustable" rear sights on handguns are marked to show you which way is up: A counterclockwise movement of the screw is usually going to raise the point of impact. A clockwise movement of the windage screw will usually move the point of impact to the right." Some not all. Quote No screws... Again, some not all. Quote You need a special tool, or a brass punch & a ball peen hammer to adjust them...Wink Or a screwdriver depending on type If you are referring to only one type of drift adjustable sight... fine. But there is more than one type. I had a buddy with a Glock with "Drift Adjustable" sights.... Said so right on the package he bought. It was adjusted by a small screw. It also broke when he was doing weapons manipulations. So yes, if you want to claim there is only one type of sight... fine. But that is not true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #42 May 30, 2012 Learn something new every day! The only type I have are dovetailed in and definitely not easily adjustable...no screws. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killler 2 #43 May 30, 2012 Old carry weapon http://www.coolclimbing.com/images/guns/pistols/browning_hipower01.jpg I have seen light guy's.... This will be my new concealed carry weaponhttp://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Glock-19-with-additions.jpg I like that I'll be able to mount a flash light on the quad rail , But I'll only do that at night.. killler.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
