SkyPiggie 0 #1 June 11, 2012 "The net worth of the American family has fallen to its lowest level in two decades, according to government data released Monday, driven by a more than 40 percent drop in their stakes in their homes. The Federal Reserve’s detailed survey of consumer finances showed families’ median wealth plunged from $126,400 in 2007 to $77,300 in 2010 — a 39 percent decline." http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/fed-americans-wealth-dropped-40-percent/2012/06/11/gJQAlIsCVV_story.html Here's the "change" you believed in... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #2 June 11, 2012 Yes, Obama is clearly responsible for the bursting of the housing bubble. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #3 June 11, 2012 Quote"The net worth of the American family has fallen to its lowest level in two decades, according to government data released Monday, driven by a more than 40 percent drop in their stakes in their homes. The Federal Reserve’s detailed survey of consumer finances showed families’ median wealth plunged from $126,400 in 2007 to $77,300 in 2010 — a 39 percent decline." http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/fed-americans-wealth-dropped-40-percent/2012/06/11/gJQAlIsCVV_story.html Here's the "change" you believed in... It's very disingenuous to compare our situation to the top of a real-estate bubble which eclipsed the last two by 75% and nearly doubled long-term inflation adjusted house prices (for the same home - newer construction has tended to be larger and therefore more expensive) which have otherwise remained essentially flat since 1950. Especially in a country where most people aren't savers and the majority of their "wealth" is in their home. Prices were bound to revert to the mean who ever became president, especially since real wages are flat or declining and many other costs like education and medical care have been going up far faster than inflation leaving less to buy homes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #4 June 11, 2012 Corellatiion does not equal causation and in this case it's especially stupid to attempt to blame this President rather than the many who came before him.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShcShc11 0 #5 June 11, 2012 QuoteCorellatiion does not equal causation and in this case it's especially stupid to attempt to blame this President rather than the many who came before him. But its easier to blame Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #6 June 11, 2012 Quote Yes, Obama is clearly responsible for the bursting of the housing bubble. And even more so for this incredible recovery we're seeing...in the private sector anywaysPlease don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #7 June 11, 2012 And CEO pay dropped about the same amount, http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/12/ceo-pay-20-year-historical-chart.html The difference is if you made $50K and lost 40%, you know make $30K and probably lose your house. When you make $20M, you lose 40% and you still make $12M. Maybe you have to sell the yacht to make ends meet..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #8 June 11, 2012 QuoteAnd CEO pay dropped about the same amount, http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/12/ceo-pay-20-year-historical-chart.html The difference is if you made $50K and lost 40%, you know make $30K and probably lose your house. When you make $20M, you lose 40% and you still make $12M. Maybe you have to sell the yacht to make ends meet..... Income and wealth are largely separate issues. Paying $100,000 for your house, it having a potential sale price of 150,000 nominal dollars by 2000 due to inflation, hitting 350,000 nominal dollars in 2006, and dropping back to $190,000 in current dollars has little to do with you being able to make ends meet. You should actually be better off now than you were at the peak. Since you had equity in your home you should have been able to refinance at interest rates which the government has manipulated to be 1/3 lower than at the peak which were already at historically low levels. With real estate taxes most places based on a property's current value you're probably doing better on that front too. Of course, you will be hurting if you were using your house as an ATM to live a more extravagant lifestyle than your paycheck supports although that's your own fault for expecting to live off free money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #9 June 11, 2012 QuoteAnd CEO pay dropped about the same amount, http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/12/ceo-pay-20-year-historical-chart.html The difference is if you made $50K and lost 40%, you know make $30K and probably lose your house. When you make $20M, you lose 40% and you still make $12M. Maybe you have to sell the yacht to make ends meet..... Hmmm. And when you've got a portfolio of $100 million in stocks and you lose $50 million of it, that also drives numbers down a bit, doesn't it? So when families’ median wealth plunged from $126,400 in 2007 to $77,300 in 2010, we've got to examine the numbers a bit more. If you've got 99 people with wealth of $10k (combined wealth of $990k) and add the hundredth person with a wealth of $100 million, you've got a wealth of $100,990,000. (Average wealth of $1,009,900 per person). Now it drops and the combined wealth of the 99 people is a mere $9k per person (cumulative $891k.) But then the other dude lost $50 million, leading to a combined wealth of the 100 of $50,891,000. Now the total wealth is only $50,099,000, leaving an average wealth of $500,990. On average, this is a half million lost per person. BUT - 99 of those people only lost $1k per person. That's still a 10% loss, but adding the outliers in makes it more troublesome. I think the article's data is revealing. How much did the poor lose in wealth? Nothing. By definition the poor have no wealth. Or very little. (Certainly not $125k in wealth). Thus reflecting either vast sums of wealth concentrated in a few or a very large middle class. If the former (large concentration in very few) then they lost LOADS of wealth and other did not, for they hadn't much wealth to lose. If the latter, then the middle class lost a large sum of wealth that they had gained. Thus disproving the whole "no middle class" thing. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #10 June 11, 2012 Quote So when families’ median wealth plunged from $126,400 in 2007 to $77,300 in 2010, we've got to examine the numbers a bit more. If you've got 99 people with wealth of $10k (combined wealth of $990k) and add the hundredth person with a wealth of $100 million, you've got a wealth of $100,990,000. (Average wealth of $1,009,900 per person). [/QUOTE] No. The median is the point at which half the values are higher and half lower. The average is the mean. The median of 100K, 200K, 300K, 1M, and 10M is 300K and the mean is $2,320,000. If the millionaires fortunes drop to $300K or over like 100K, 200K, 300K, 301K, 302K the median is still 300K although the mean has dropped to $240,600. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #11 June 11, 2012 the median is usually not meaningful in an artificial sample size of 5. It's highly valuable for describing a population to eliminate the effects of outlier values. Coupled with the mean, it tells a better story. And if you want more, having the quintiles (20%) values is probably enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #12 June 11, 2012 QuoteNo. The median is the point at which half the values are higher and half lower. The average is the mean. Thanks. I fucked up. It's happened before. It'll happen again. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #13 June 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteNo. The median is the point at which half the values are higher and half lower. The average is the mean. Thanks. I fucked up. It's happened before. It'll happen again. To err is human ... On the other hand, you are a lawyer.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shah269 0 #14 June 12, 2012 QuoteAnd CEO pay dropped about the same amount, http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/12/ceo-pay-20-year-historical-chart.html Quote But over the same pay period their income has gone up right?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mirage62 0 #15 June 12, 2012 Quote When you make $20M, you lose 40% and you still make $12M. Maybe you have to sell the yacht to make ends meet..... Thats as dumb as saying that "rich" dzo's who jump for free should feel sorry for young up jumpers who don't have enough to jump as much as they want to....Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #16 June 12, 2012 But let's not neglect political reality, though. I agree that the predictable bash at Obama is just partisan sloganeering. That being said, perception is reality, and an awful lot of people who bother to vote, do so based on their perceptions. When James Carville was Bill Clinton's campaign manager in 1992, he knew this when he used the slogan "It's the economy, stupid" as the operative creed to guide the entire campaign staff. And that strategy paid off, now, didn't it? I also remember the 18% mortgage rates during the Carter administration, and candidate Reagan's 1980 campaign speech line, "Are you better off today than you were 4 years ago?", to which the crowd would respond, "No-oo-ooooo!!!" Iran and the hostages may have been one nail in the coffin of Carter's reelection chances, but the common perception of the economy was the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tkhayes 348 #17 June 12, 2012 Quote"rich" dzo's who jump for free rich DZO's don't jump for free. They still have to put fuel, maintenance and mortgage payments into their airplanes, pay electric bills and staff and rent. Get up every day to make sure that it all works for you (and me). free - yeah right..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #18 June 12, 2012 QuoteQuote"rich" dzo's who jump for free rich DZO's don't jump for free. They still have to put fuel, maintenance and mortgage payments into their airplanes, pay electric bills and staff and rent. Get up every day to make sure that it all works for you (and me). free - yeah right..... my wife builds jumpsuits - people keep telling me it's great that I get them for 'free'. But I've paid Oh,,,,how I pay. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shah269 0 #19 June 12, 2012 QuoteBut let's not neglect political reality, though. I agree that the predictable bash at Obama is just partisan sloganeering. That being said, perception is reality, and an awful lot of people who bother to vote, do so based on their perceptions. When James Carville was Bill Clinton's campaign manager in 1992, he knew this when he used the slogan "It's the economy, stupid" as the operative creed to guide the entire campaign staff. And that strategy paid off, now, didn't it? I also remember the 18% mortgage rates during the Carter administration, and candidate Reagan's 1980 campaign speech line, "Are you better off today than you were 4 years ago?", to which the crowd would respond, "No-oo-ooooo!!!" Iran and the hostages may have been one nail in the coffin of Carter's reelection chances, but the common perception of the economy was the other. Very well put! Very well done! Bravo!Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,108 #20 June 12, 2012 Quote Quote Quote "rich" dzo's who jump for free rich DZO's don't jump for free. They still have to put fuel, maintenance and mortgage payments into their airplanes, pay electric bills and staff and rent. Get up every day to make sure that it all works for you (and me). free - yeah right..... my wife builds jumpsuits - people keep telling me it's great that I get them for 'free'. But I've paid Oh,,,,how I pay. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pirana 0 #21 June 14, 2012 Quote Quote Quote "rich" dzo's who jump for free rich DZO's don't jump for free. They still have to put fuel, maintenance and mortgage payments into their airplanes, pay electric bills and staff and rent. Get up every day to make sure that it all works for you (and me). free - yeah right..... my wife builds jumpsuits - people keep telling me it's great that I get them for 'free'. But I've paid Oh,,,,how I pay. I've heard quite the opposite; what does it mean to be a "kept" man?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #22 June 14, 2012 QuoteCorellatiion does not equal causation and in this case it's especially stupid to attempt to blame this President rather than the many who came before him. And equally stupid to only blame those that came before him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #23 June 14, 2012 Quote Quote [my wife builds jumpsuits - people keep telling me it's great that I get them for 'free'. But I've paid Oh,,,,how I pay. I've heard quite the opposite; what does it mean to be a "kept" man? kept in the dark? kept in the manner to which I've become accustomed? kept starving for a little attention? kept waiting? take your pick ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,108 #24 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteCorellatiion does not equal causation and in this case it's especially stupid to attempt to blame this President rather than the many who came before him. And equally stupid to only blame those that came before him. The biggest drop was with the bursting of the housing bubble in 2008. So blame the guy in charge then, right? www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/14/us-usa-campaign-economy-bush-idUSBRE85D0XI20120614... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #25 June 14, 2012 QuoteThe biggest drop was with the bursting of the housing bubble in 2008. So blame the guy in charge then, right? Or you could look at the factors that led to the bust.... Community investment program started by Carter and supercharged by Clinton. How Barney Frank ignored warnings House Financial Services Committee hearing, Sept. 10, 2003: Rep. Barney Frank (D., Mass.): I worry, frankly, that there's a tension here. The more people, in my judgment, exaggerate a threat of safety and soundness, the more people conjure up the possibility of serious financial losses to the Treasury, which I do not see. I think we see entities that are fundamentally sound financially and withstand some of the disaster scenarios. . . . Or maybe Maxine Watters: Rep. Maxine Waters (D., Calif.), speaking to Housing and Urban Development Secretary Mel Martinez: Secretary Martinez, if it ain't broke, why do you want to fix it? Have the GSEs [government-sponsored enterprises] ever missed their housing goals? Rep. Waters: However, I have sat through nearly a dozen hearings where, frankly, we were trying to fix something that wasn't broke. Housing is the economic engine of our economy, and in no community does this engine need to work more than in mine. With last week's hurricane and the drain on the economy from the war in Iraq, we should do no harm to these GSEs. We should be enhancing regulation, not making fundamental change. Mr. Chairman, we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac, and in particular at Fannie Mae, under the outstanding leadership of Mr. Frank Raines. Everything in the 1992 act has worked just fine. In fact, the GSEs have exceeded their housing goals. . . . So you can try to take the easy road and blame the party you hate and ignore the real data....... But I doubt you would accept that kinda paper from your students. “Selling Fannie and Freddie as a purely partisan issue, it doesn’t really work,’’ said Jonathan Koppell, director of the School of Public Affairs at Arizona State University. “Both parties have plenty of responsibility.’’ Another analyst, University of Maryland economics professor Peter Morici, put it more succinctly. “This is a bipartisan mess,’’ he said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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kelpdiver 2 #11 June 11, 2012 the median is usually not meaningful in an artificial sample size of 5. It's highly valuable for describing a population to eliminate the effects of outlier values. Coupled with the mean, it tells a better story. And if you want more, having the quintiles (20%) values is probably enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #12 June 11, 2012 QuoteNo. The median is the point at which half the values are higher and half lower. The average is the mean. Thanks. I fucked up. It's happened before. It'll happen again. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #13 June 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteNo. The median is the point at which half the values are higher and half lower. The average is the mean. Thanks. I fucked up. It's happened before. It'll happen again. To err is human ... On the other hand, you are a lawyer.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #14 June 12, 2012 QuoteAnd CEO pay dropped about the same amount, http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/12/ceo-pay-20-year-historical-chart.html Quote But over the same pay period their income has gone up right?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mirage62 0 #15 June 12, 2012 Quote When you make $20M, you lose 40% and you still make $12M. Maybe you have to sell the yacht to make ends meet..... Thats as dumb as saying that "rich" dzo's who jump for free should feel sorry for young up jumpers who don't have enough to jump as much as they want to....Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #16 June 12, 2012 But let's not neglect political reality, though. I agree that the predictable bash at Obama is just partisan sloganeering. That being said, perception is reality, and an awful lot of people who bother to vote, do so based on their perceptions. When James Carville was Bill Clinton's campaign manager in 1992, he knew this when he used the slogan "It's the economy, stupid" as the operative creed to guide the entire campaign staff. And that strategy paid off, now, didn't it? I also remember the 18% mortgage rates during the Carter administration, and candidate Reagan's 1980 campaign speech line, "Are you better off today than you were 4 years ago?", to which the crowd would respond, "No-oo-ooooo!!!" Iran and the hostages may have been one nail in the coffin of Carter's reelection chances, but the common perception of the economy was the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tkhayes 348 #17 June 12, 2012 Quote"rich" dzo's who jump for free rich DZO's don't jump for free. They still have to put fuel, maintenance and mortgage payments into their airplanes, pay electric bills and staff and rent. Get up every day to make sure that it all works for you (and me). free - yeah right..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #18 June 12, 2012 QuoteQuote"rich" dzo's who jump for free rich DZO's don't jump for free. They still have to put fuel, maintenance and mortgage payments into their airplanes, pay electric bills and staff and rent. Get up every day to make sure that it all works for you (and me). free - yeah right..... my wife builds jumpsuits - people keep telling me it's great that I get them for 'free'. But I've paid Oh,,,,how I pay. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shah269 0 #19 June 12, 2012 QuoteBut let's not neglect political reality, though. I agree that the predictable bash at Obama is just partisan sloganeering. That being said, perception is reality, and an awful lot of people who bother to vote, do so based on their perceptions. When James Carville was Bill Clinton's campaign manager in 1992, he knew this when he used the slogan "It's the economy, stupid" as the operative creed to guide the entire campaign staff. And that strategy paid off, now, didn't it? I also remember the 18% mortgage rates during the Carter administration, and candidate Reagan's 1980 campaign speech line, "Are you better off today than you were 4 years ago?", to which the crowd would respond, "No-oo-ooooo!!!" Iran and the hostages may have been one nail in the coffin of Carter's reelection chances, but the common perception of the economy was the other. Very well put! Very well done! Bravo!Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,108 #20 June 12, 2012 Quote Quote Quote "rich" dzo's who jump for free rich DZO's don't jump for free. They still have to put fuel, maintenance and mortgage payments into their airplanes, pay electric bills and staff and rent. Get up every day to make sure that it all works for you (and me). free - yeah right..... my wife builds jumpsuits - people keep telling me it's great that I get them for 'free'. But I've paid Oh,,,,how I pay. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pirana 0 #21 June 14, 2012 Quote Quote Quote "rich" dzo's who jump for free rich DZO's don't jump for free. They still have to put fuel, maintenance and mortgage payments into their airplanes, pay electric bills and staff and rent. Get up every day to make sure that it all works for you (and me). free - yeah right..... my wife builds jumpsuits - people keep telling me it's great that I get them for 'free'. But I've paid Oh,,,,how I pay. I've heard quite the opposite; what does it mean to be a "kept" man?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #22 June 14, 2012 QuoteCorellatiion does not equal causation and in this case it's especially stupid to attempt to blame this President rather than the many who came before him. And equally stupid to only blame those that came before him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #23 June 14, 2012 Quote Quote [my wife builds jumpsuits - people keep telling me it's great that I get them for 'free'. But I've paid Oh,,,,how I pay. I've heard quite the opposite; what does it mean to be a "kept" man? kept in the dark? kept in the manner to which I've become accustomed? kept starving for a little attention? kept waiting? take your pick ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,108 #24 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteCorellatiion does not equal causation and in this case it's especially stupid to attempt to blame this President rather than the many who came before him. And equally stupid to only blame those that came before him. The biggest drop was with the bursting of the housing bubble in 2008. So blame the guy in charge then, right? www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/14/us-usa-campaign-economy-bush-idUSBRE85D0XI20120614... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #25 June 14, 2012 QuoteThe biggest drop was with the bursting of the housing bubble in 2008. So blame the guy in charge then, right? Or you could look at the factors that led to the bust.... Community investment program started by Carter and supercharged by Clinton. How Barney Frank ignored warnings House Financial Services Committee hearing, Sept. 10, 2003: Rep. Barney Frank (D., Mass.): I worry, frankly, that there's a tension here. The more people, in my judgment, exaggerate a threat of safety and soundness, the more people conjure up the possibility of serious financial losses to the Treasury, which I do not see. I think we see entities that are fundamentally sound financially and withstand some of the disaster scenarios. . . . Or maybe Maxine Watters: Rep. Maxine Waters (D., Calif.), speaking to Housing and Urban Development Secretary Mel Martinez: Secretary Martinez, if it ain't broke, why do you want to fix it? Have the GSEs [government-sponsored enterprises] ever missed their housing goals? Rep. Waters: However, I have sat through nearly a dozen hearings where, frankly, we were trying to fix something that wasn't broke. Housing is the economic engine of our economy, and in no community does this engine need to work more than in mine. With last week's hurricane and the drain on the economy from the war in Iraq, we should do no harm to these GSEs. We should be enhancing regulation, not making fundamental change. Mr. Chairman, we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac, and in particular at Fannie Mae, under the outstanding leadership of Mr. Frank Raines. Everything in the 1992 act has worked just fine. In fact, the GSEs have exceeded their housing goals. . . . So you can try to take the easy road and blame the party you hate and ignore the real data....... But I doubt you would accept that kinda paper from your students. “Selling Fannie and Freddie as a purely partisan issue, it doesn’t really work,’’ said Jonathan Koppell, director of the School of Public Affairs at Arizona State University. “Both parties have plenty of responsibility.’’ Another analyst, University of Maryland economics professor Peter Morici, put it more succinctly. “This is a bipartisan mess,’’ he said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
mirage62 0 #15 June 12, 2012 Quote When you make $20M, you lose 40% and you still make $12M. Maybe you have to sell the yacht to make ends meet..... Thats as dumb as saying that "rich" dzo's who jump for free should feel sorry for young up jumpers who don't have enough to jump as much as they want to....Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #16 June 12, 2012 But let's not neglect political reality, though. I agree that the predictable bash at Obama is just partisan sloganeering. That being said, perception is reality, and an awful lot of people who bother to vote, do so based on their perceptions. When James Carville was Bill Clinton's campaign manager in 1992, he knew this when he used the slogan "It's the economy, stupid" as the operative creed to guide the entire campaign staff. And that strategy paid off, now, didn't it? I also remember the 18% mortgage rates during the Carter administration, and candidate Reagan's 1980 campaign speech line, "Are you better off today than you were 4 years ago?", to which the crowd would respond, "No-oo-ooooo!!!" Iran and the hostages may have been one nail in the coffin of Carter's reelection chances, but the common perception of the economy was the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #17 June 12, 2012 Quote"rich" dzo's who jump for free rich DZO's don't jump for free. They still have to put fuel, maintenance and mortgage payments into their airplanes, pay electric bills and staff and rent. Get up every day to make sure that it all works for you (and me). free - yeah right..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #18 June 12, 2012 QuoteQuote"rich" dzo's who jump for free rich DZO's don't jump for free. They still have to put fuel, maintenance and mortgage payments into their airplanes, pay electric bills and staff and rent. Get up every day to make sure that it all works for you (and me). free - yeah right..... my wife builds jumpsuits - people keep telling me it's great that I get them for 'free'. But I've paid Oh,,,,how I pay. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #19 June 12, 2012 QuoteBut let's not neglect political reality, though. I agree that the predictable bash at Obama is just partisan sloganeering. That being said, perception is reality, and an awful lot of people who bother to vote, do so based on their perceptions. When James Carville was Bill Clinton's campaign manager in 1992, he knew this when he used the slogan "It's the economy, stupid" as the operative creed to guide the entire campaign staff. And that strategy paid off, now, didn't it? I also remember the 18% mortgage rates during the Carter administration, and candidate Reagan's 1980 campaign speech line, "Are you better off today than you were 4 years ago?", to which the crowd would respond, "No-oo-ooooo!!!" Iran and the hostages may have been one nail in the coffin of Carter's reelection chances, but the common perception of the economy was the other. Very well put! Very well done! Bravo!Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #20 June 12, 2012 Quote Quote Quote "rich" dzo's who jump for free rich DZO's don't jump for free. They still have to put fuel, maintenance and mortgage payments into their airplanes, pay electric bills and staff and rent. Get up every day to make sure that it all works for you (and me). free - yeah right..... my wife builds jumpsuits - people keep telling me it's great that I get them for 'free'. But I've paid Oh,,,,how I pay. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #21 June 14, 2012 Quote Quote Quote "rich" dzo's who jump for free rich DZO's don't jump for free. They still have to put fuel, maintenance and mortgage payments into their airplanes, pay electric bills and staff and rent. Get up every day to make sure that it all works for you (and me). free - yeah right..... my wife builds jumpsuits - people keep telling me it's great that I get them for 'free'. But I've paid Oh,,,,how I pay. I've heard quite the opposite; what does it mean to be a "kept" man?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #22 June 14, 2012 QuoteCorellatiion does not equal causation and in this case it's especially stupid to attempt to blame this President rather than the many who came before him. And equally stupid to only blame those that came before him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #23 June 14, 2012 Quote Quote [my wife builds jumpsuits - people keep telling me it's great that I get them for 'free'. But I've paid Oh,,,,how I pay. I've heard quite the opposite; what does it mean to be a "kept" man? kept in the dark? kept in the manner to which I've become accustomed? kept starving for a little attention? kept waiting? take your pick ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #24 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteCorellatiion does not equal causation and in this case it's especially stupid to attempt to blame this President rather than the many who came before him. And equally stupid to only blame those that came before him. The biggest drop was with the bursting of the housing bubble in 2008. So blame the guy in charge then, right? www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/14/us-usa-campaign-economy-bush-idUSBRE85D0XI20120614... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #25 June 14, 2012 QuoteThe biggest drop was with the bursting of the housing bubble in 2008. So blame the guy in charge then, right? Or you could look at the factors that led to the bust.... Community investment program started by Carter and supercharged by Clinton. How Barney Frank ignored warnings House Financial Services Committee hearing, Sept. 10, 2003: Rep. Barney Frank (D., Mass.): I worry, frankly, that there's a tension here. The more people, in my judgment, exaggerate a threat of safety and soundness, the more people conjure up the possibility of serious financial losses to the Treasury, which I do not see. I think we see entities that are fundamentally sound financially and withstand some of the disaster scenarios. . . . Or maybe Maxine Watters: Rep. Maxine Waters (D., Calif.), speaking to Housing and Urban Development Secretary Mel Martinez: Secretary Martinez, if it ain't broke, why do you want to fix it? Have the GSEs [government-sponsored enterprises] ever missed their housing goals? Rep. Waters: However, I have sat through nearly a dozen hearings where, frankly, we were trying to fix something that wasn't broke. Housing is the economic engine of our economy, and in no community does this engine need to work more than in mine. With last week's hurricane and the drain on the economy from the war in Iraq, we should do no harm to these GSEs. We should be enhancing regulation, not making fundamental change. Mr. Chairman, we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac, and in particular at Fannie Mae, under the outstanding leadership of Mr. Frank Raines. Everything in the 1992 act has worked just fine. In fact, the GSEs have exceeded their housing goals. . . . So you can try to take the easy road and blame the party you hate and ignore the real data....... But I doubt you would accept that kinda paper from your students. “Selling Fannie and Freddie as a purely partisan issue, it doesn’t really work,’’ said Jonathan Koppell, director of the School of Public Affairs at Arizona State University. “Both parties have plenty of responsibility.’’ Another analyst, University of Maryland economics professor Peter Morici, put it more succinctly. “This is a bipartisan mess,’’ he said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
