Deutsche Bank: "Euro collapse is a very likely scenario." Possibility of U.S unemployment at 20%?

[shah269 0]

Yes but how about the super companies such as GE and AT&T as well as Apple who are swimming in liquidity. Often in tax free zones?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[lawrocket 3]

For those companies swimming in liquidity, I think that their assets should be seized and redistributed to the people of the world.

That'll show them not to be good at business! Those assholes. They put out amazing products at good prices that people WILL spend money on and manage to operate well in the black? We should teach them a lesson!

Note: there are plenty of people out there who think Apple has more cash in its accounts than the US Treasury. That says something, don't it?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[shah269 0]

Or we find a nice way to allow them to repatriot their funds into the US and the EU ane invest?

Wow bro don't have to go over the top?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[rehmwa 2]

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Or we find a nice way to allow them to repatriot their funds into the US...and invest

good idea - maybe take away the incentive to incorporate somewhere with a more friendly tax structure.

I wonder how to do that?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[shah269 0]

God knows! It's in a businesses best interest to be where the taxes are the lowest.

Problem is that when they do that they take all the money out of the system. As long as one or two companies do that, it's ok. But when the money removed is a good % of the nations liquidity it gets nutty.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[rehmwa 2]

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But when the money removed is a good % of the nations liquidity it gets nutty.

Sure, but when the system results in losing a good % of the potential of the nations liquidity, then maybe the 'system' should take a second look at their policy.

1 or 2 companies? - sure, likely they are special cases

Most of the companies? - then the problem likely doesn't fall with them, but with the policy of the government

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[matthewcline 0]

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But when the money removed is a good % of the nations liquidity it gets nutty.

Sure, but when the system results in losing a good % of the potential of the nations liquidity, then maybe the 'system' should take a second look at their policy.

1 or 2 companies? - sure, likely they are special cases

Most of the companies? - then the problem likely doesn't fall with them, but with the policy of the government

Bingo!

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[mnealtx 0]

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But when the money removed is a good % of the nations liquidity it gets nutty.

When did the company's money suddenly become public property?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Bolas 5]

Most of the banks will be deemed "too big to fail" and will get bailed out by their government , possibly in exchange for partial or total control and the upper echelon of those banks will profit huge. After all, it's worked in the US for years.

And the dance will go on...

Either that or China will just buy Europe...

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[kelpdiver 2]

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But when the money removed is a good % of the nations liquidity it gets nutty.

When did the company's money suddenly become public property?

the tax avoidance done by a company like Apple, despite the bulk of their employees being here in California, makes this question much murkier than you suggest. The employees are paying their share and then some in income taxes, but the company is not. Same with Google.

[weekender 0]

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Yes but how about the super companies such as GE and AT&T as well as Apple who are swimming in liquidity. Often in tax free zones?

I quickly checked their numbers on Bloomberg and am curious your thoughts.

GE and Apple have the same amount of cash and equiv as they did going back to the crisis, % wise. so they arent exactly hoarding, they are operating their balance sheets as per normal for them. I am completely lost on your Telephone comment. they have a 205bill market cap and only 2bill in cash. thats .009% and again the same going back to 08.

did you just name big companies you could think of? I know you have an MBA and the internet so IMO you could have found better companies to prove you theory of evil hoarding mega corps destroying our society.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[billvon 3,078]

>But Gov spending is just a shell game in many aspects

Agreed. But service based economies are shell games to begin with. The trick is managing that shell game to prevent catastrophic collapses. And that can be done, but it requires people to be willing to live with lower peaks to avoid dealing with the deeper valleys.

>Gov Employees, paid from the taxes, so no "real" revenue.

Right. But that money also goes directly to buy guns, power, oil, paper, clothing, medical supplies etc and goes indirectly to train doctors, technicians, pilots etc - all of which _are_ real revenue. It's why wars are good for economies (as an example.)

[shah269 0]

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>Gov Employees, paid from the taxes, so no "real" revenue.

Right. But that money also goes directly to buy guns, power, oil, paper, clothing, medical supplies etc and goes indirectly to train doctors, technicians, pilots etc - all of which _are_ real revenue. It's why wars are good for economies (as an example.)

OR!
Instead of going to war we hire teachers, cops and maybe improve our roads?

But i hear the GOP doesn't like that shit so we are fucked?
Or am i wrong?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[kelpdiver 2]

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GE and Apple have the same amount of cash and equiv as they did going back to the crisis, % wise. so they arent exactly hoarding, they are operating their balance sheets as per normal for them.

Not sure % is the right way to treat Apple. Their stock and cash holdings skyrocketed in the past 4 years due to very successful new product lines (chiefly iphone, ipad). Their cash passed 100B, far larger than a significant portion of the F500 companies' entire capitalization.

They have used it to their advantage - buying up the entire future supply of key technologies that they use in product launches. of course, that only works when you deliver a success.

[billvon 3,078]

>OR! Instead of going to war we hire teachers, cops and maybe improve our roads?

Yep. And that works to stimulate an economy in times of economic troubles.

The problem is that we don't just do that during times of economic troubles. Once we recover we don't stop spending to save up for the next recession. We spend even more. Which is how we got into this problem to begin with.

>But i hear the GOP doesn't like that shit so we are fucked?

Correct. It gets labeled "socialism" or "tax and spend" or some such, and any rational discussion ends.

[matthewcline 0]

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>But Gov spending is just a shell game in many aspects

Agreed. But service based economies are shell games to begin with. The trick is managing that shell game to prevent catastrophic collapses. And that can be done, but it requires people to be willing to live with lower peaks to avoid dealing with the deeper valleys.

>Gov Employees, paid from the taxes, so no "real" revenue.

Right. But that money also goes directly to buy guns, power, oil, paper, clothing, medical supplies etc and goes indirectly to train doctors, technicians, pilots etc - all of which _are_ real revenue. It's why wars are good for economies (as an example.)

But it comes back in a tax as a diluted "revenue". Which was my initial meaning by using it.

True, the upside is the private spending.

The part I was trying to make clear is that hiring more Gov employees, take out more "revenue" than it puts in.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[weekender 0]

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GE and Apple have the same amount of cash and equiv as they did going back to the crisis, % wise. so they arent exactly hoarding, they are operating their balance sheets as per normal for them.

Not sure % is the right way to treat Apple. Their stock and cash holdings skyrocketed in the past 4 years due to very successful new product lines (chiefly iphone, ipad). Their cash passed 100B, far larger than a significant portion of the F500 companies' entire capitalization.

They have used it to their advantage - buying up the entire future supply of key technologies that they use in product launches. of course, that only works when you deliver a success.

your point might be valid, i dont know, i dont follow Apple nor am i an analyst. But, their % of cash has remained basically the same, the case for hoarding isnt fair. i was pointing that out because Shah mentioned they were hoarding cash. I disagree.

i get his point, he wants them to pay more in taxes. i wont argue for or against that. I dont know what they should pay. I was teasing him for just naming big companies to prove a point.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[shah269 0]

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>OR! Instead of going to war we hire teachers, cops and maybe improve our roads?

Yep. And that works to stimulate an economy in times of economic troubles.

The problem is that we don't just do that during times of economic troubles. Once we recover we don't stop spending to save up for the next recession. We spend even more. Which is how we got into this problem to begin with.

>But i hear the GOP doesn't like that shit so we are fucked?

Correct. It gets labeled "socialism" or "tax and spend" or some such, and any rational discussion ends.

Well that's freaking supid!
Who the hell argues for less teachers, less security and safety and better roads and bridges?

I mean isn't that like.....I don't know curing AIDS by cutting off your fingers and toes?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[lawrocket 3]

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Instead of going to war we hire teachers, cops and maybe improve our roads?

Teachers are a state and locality issue. As are cops. It so happens that in California that education is the King, Queen and Jack of spending. 41% of the budget this year. It increases constantly.

Cops? A locality issue. Too bad that cops are funded but courts are cut, thereby ensuring that police do a lot of digging and filling holes because there are not the resources to actually adjudicate the cases, file charges, etc.

Improving roads? There's one I can go for. In Cali, that's what fuel taxes are supposed to go for. But those funds are often raided. (No politician can put a name on a maintenance project. "Rep. John Snuffy Bridge" is nice. But maintaining it? YUCK!)

How much of a percentage of spending should schools and police get? Police costs are often the dominant cost of a city or county.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rehmwa 2]

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>
>But i hear the GOP doesn't like that shit so we are fucked?

Correct. It gets labeled "socialism" or "tax and spend" or some such, and any rational discussion ends.

So, "I agree with your non-value added stereotype" and then state "and any rational discussion ends"


seemed it had already ended, dontcha think?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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Improving roads? There's one I can go for.

sorry, it's not "GREEN" enough - screw roads, that's way too right wing. What Shah meant to say was trains, windmills, and hybrid charging stations - that would help the little preaching to the choir thing he had going with BV

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[shah269 0]

Roads, bridges, tunnels, water mains you know the works!
Hell while you are at it put down some nice NGass pipes in the cities so we can use that.

Just sounds better than throwing money at nothing.
At least we get soemthing out of it that can be taxed.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[billvon 3,078]

>So, "I agree with your non-value added stereotype" and then state "and any rational
>discussion ends" seemed it had already ended, dontcha think?

If you like. In general, the GOP doesn't want to spend money on that stuff. I think "cutting spending" is part of every GOP platform I have ever seen. You can consider that a non-value-added stereotype if you like.

[rehmwa 2]

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>So, "I agree with your non-value added stereotype" and then state "and any rational
>discussion ends" seemed it had already ended, dontcha think?

If you like. In general, the GOP doesn't want to spend money on that stuff. I think "cutting spending" is part of every GOP platform I have ever seen. You can consider that a non-value-added stereotype if you like.

'cutting spending' = 'any rational discussion ends'

how should I read that? you find a lot of everyday conservatives against education, roads, and cops? wouldn't those things be more affordable if we didn't subsidize failed/unready green companies, bailout banks, perverted arts, etc etc etc?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,078]

>'cutting spending' = 'any rational discussion ends' how should I read that?

?? Any way you like. You made that equivalence; I didn't. Rational discussion ends when the right starts in with the "socialist!" "tax and spend!" soundbites. (And when democrats start in with the "you hate kids!" stuff as well.) I suspect you'd even agree with that if you weren't trying so hard to disagree with me.