Skyrad 0 #26 June 28, 2012 Thanks to everyone who posted here, food for thought indeed.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #27 June 28, 2012 QuoteHonestly, whats the problem with a nation taking care of its own people instead of leaving them to the mercy of corporations? I don't get it. Many if not most Americans do not like the government telling them what they must do or not do. We don't like being told what we must have or can't have. We believe the government should provide for the common defense and that is about it. BTW, that includes sealing the fucking borders.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #28 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuote Let's start with this: The "old" U.S Health Care just did not work. Your quote does not demonstrate that. It's just additional evidence that Americans aren't living within their means and saving for emergencies. Quote "Half of all respondents (49%) indicated that their foreclosure was caused in part by a medical problem, including illness or injuries (32%), unmanageable medical bills (23%), lost work due to a medical problem (27%), or caring for sick family members (14%). We also examined objective indicia of medical disruptions in the previous two years, including those respondents paying more than $2,000 of medical bills out of pocket (37%), those losing two or more weeks of work because of injury or illness (30%), those currently disabled and unable to work (8%), and those who used their home equity to pay medical bills (13%). Altogether, seven in ten respondents (69%) reported at least one of these factors." Americans spend too much buying depreciating crap and big houses and too little saving for emergencies. Where the median household income is $46,000 an emergency savings fund of $23,000 is reasonable. With that much in the bank $2000 of medical bills out of pocket and $2000 in lost wages over 2 weeks are not big deals. The average savings account balance is only $3800. $3800 - $4000 = $-200. Oops! +1. There are still too many people still buying houses that reall shouldn't be but they have been sold this dream their whole lives that homeownership represents some type of plateau. Often they afford them by not taking care of financial responsibilities such as proper health insurance, savings in the bank, and money for retirement. Then when they can no longer meet their obligations, they turn to the government (taxpayers)for a bailout. Health Insurance companies do one thing really well. They look at the individuals age and health and then evaluate what thier risk is. That persons premium is based on that risk factor. Obamacare removes this evaluation and is in essence a tax on health to all so that the few can be insured. If they want to cover those who don't provide for themselves, lets at least be honest and call it a tax. Lets not force everyone into a governmental system. And lets make no mistake about where Obamacare is leading us. Governments lie all the time when they are pushing an agenda. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 104 #29 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteHonestly, whats the problem with a nation taking care of its own people instead of leaving them to the mercy of corporations? I don't get it. Many if not most Americans do not like the government telling them what they must do or not do. We don't like being told what we must have or can't have. We believe the government should provide for the common defense and that is about it. BTW, that includes sealing the fucking borders. What about the line that comes after "provide for the common defense" did you forget that part?Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #30 June 28, 2012 Quotes in this morning's news from the medical community state that the medical system can't support 40 million new patients. Doctors are going to quit. Some are not taking Medicare or Medicaid patients do to payment problems now. Hospitals will suffer from increased costs and decreased funding. It will be a disaster not a benefit to the general welfare.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 104 #31 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuotes in this morning's news from the medical community state that the medical system can't support 40 million new patients. Doctors are going to quit. Some are not taking Medicare or Medicaid patients do to payment problems now. Hospitals will suffer from increased costs and decreased funding. It will be a disaster not a benefit to the general welfare. So it is ok to nearly bankrupt the country while providing for the common defense, but not while promoting the general welfare? I am just thinking that maybe we spend too much on the former and not enough on the latter.Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #32 June 28, 2012 Quote So it is ok to nearly bankrupt the country while providing for the common defense, but not while promoting the general welfare? I am just thinking that maybe we spend too much on the former and not enough on the latter. We all have our priorities. I am more concerned about fundamentalist Muslim terrorists around the world than illegal citizens and welfare system scammers here in the U.S. The primary purpose of Obamacare is Democratic Party votes.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #33 June 28, 2012 QuoteHonestly, whats the problem with a nation taking care of its own people instead of leaving them to the mercy of corporations? I don't get it. On the face of it, there is nothing wrong with a "nation taking care of its own people." If that was anything close to what the legislation entailed, there would be much less debate on the issue. One problem I had when President Clinton tasked his wife to "fix" (in the same sense as one would "fix" a pet, I suppose) the health care system is that I am instantly suspicious of Attorneys attempting to improve the business model of Physicians. I am old enough to recall days when medical care was an out of pocket expense. The birth of a baby and the attendant hospital stay was paid by writing a check. Now it is just a little different. The hospital room alone was $10,000 a day a couple of years ago, and I doubt that things have become much cheaper in the meantime. Rather than addressing why the same services that used to price out at Honda 50 levels now find themselves in the Lamborghini price range, the legislature simply accepted the price tag and mandated that everyone pay Lamborghini prices. Thus, while I agree that the problem is severe, I dispute wholeheartedly the suggesting that Obamacare is anything close to a solution. If the legislature had chosen to deftly manipulate the rules so that a health care provider could charge what the services actually cost without being put out of business, I would be all for it. Unfortunately, the "fix" worked out to be brute force and ignorance at its finest. Our broken health care system is symptomatic of fundamental flaws in our sociopolitical system in general, and Obamacare is a huge leap in the wrong direction. It is an example of the principle that the greatest source of problems is solutions. If someone proposes a legitimate fix, I'm in. Obamacare, however, is no such thing. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #34 June 28, 2012 Agreed. I would add that any "fix" that does not include tort reform to protect doctors and hospitals from lawsuits that pay insane amounts of money, should be DOA. Nearly any medical procedure carries with it a certain degree of risk. Barring gross negligence, a doctor or hospital should be able to provide care without having to worry about some scumbag attorney hiding in the weeds, ready to pounce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #35 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuotes in this morning's news from the medical community state that the medical system can't support 40 million new patients.. So those 40 million should just die quietly under the current "system" and not bother you. OK.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #36 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuotes in this morning's news from the medical community state that the medical system can't support 40 million new patients.. So those 40 million should just die quietly under the current "system" and not bother you. OK. More will live under the current system than would under obamacare"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #37 June 28, 2012 It's funny how once, and not that long ago, almost everyone on the right was in favor of the individual mandate. Personal responsibility they called it. They even, (and rightfully so) hailed it when when implemented, on a state wide level, with great results by a Republican. I wonder what changed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #38 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuote So it is ok to nearly bankrupt the country while providing for the common defense, but not while promoting the general welfare? I am just thinking that maybe we spend too much on the former and not enough on the latter. We all have our priorities. I am more concerned about fundamentalist Muslim terrorists around the world than illegal citizens and welfare system scammers here in the U.S. You're more concerned about a minority of people on the other side of the world than you are about people stealing from your own pocket??? That really does seem like a strange priority.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #39 June 28, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quotes in this morning's news from the medical community state that the medical system can't support 40 million new patients.. So those 40 million should just die quietly under the current "system" and not bother you. OK. More will live under the current system than would under obamacare You are so funny.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #40 June 28, 2012 Quote You're more concerned about a minority of people on the other side of the world than you are about people stealing from your own pocket??? That really does seem like a strange priority. Both are major issues of concern to be sure. However, murderers concern me more than thieves.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #41 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuotes in this morning's news from the medical community state that the medical system can't support 40 million new patients.. So those 40 million should just die quietly under the current "system" and not bother you. OK. That is bullshit statement. They are not condemned to death without Obamacare. However, everyone must die of something. The federal government cannot guarantee extended life. They only make the ignorant think they can.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #42 June 28, 2012 The main problem with "Obamacare" is that it's really a GOP plan. www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Graphics/2010/022310-Bill-comparison.aspx www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Checking-In-With/Durenberger-1993-gop-bill-q-and-a.aspx www.tnr.com/article/health-care/party-is-such-sweet-sorrow www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/prescriptions/2010/03/obamaromney_mix_n_match.html However, the Etch-a-Sketch crowd are having a conniption because the Dems now support it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #43 June 28, 2012 Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #44 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotes in this morning's news from the medical community state that the medical system can't support 40 million new patients.. So those 40 million should just die quietly under the current "system" and not bother you. OK. That is bullshit statement. They are not condemned to death without Obamacare. However, everyone must die of something. The federal government cannot guarantee extended life. They only make the ignorant think they can. Maybe you could suggest that they eat cake while waiting to die.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #45 June 28, 2012 Quote Maybe you could suggest that they eat cake while waiting to die. I would suggest they go to a faith based food bank and get groceries. Which of course they are already doing. I worked for one in Tampa. Even stevebabin volunteers at one. In Tampa they can call 211 and find a directory to all sorts of faith based and other government sponsored social services.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #46 June 28, 2012 QuoteIneptocracy (in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. That is the best definition of the outcome of the Tea Party and the people that they support/elect that I have ever read. Bravo!!! Well done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #47 June 28, 2012 Upheld. its official. on the tape"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #48 June 28, 2012 NOT MUCH, according to SCOTUS!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #49 June 28, 2012 MANDATE is OK'd Roberts voted to uphold ACA.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #50 June 28, 2012 Did anyone look at cnn.com 5 min ago? They reported mandate struck down, they I refreshed the page and saw "correction entire bill passes" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
