Goldman-Sachs

[Gravitymaster 0]

Isn't it wonderful that despite a Congressional Investigation that concluded GS misled their clients and misled Congress, the Obama Justice Depatment concluded nobody did anything wrong?

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(CNN) -- The Justice Department says after a "careful review" it has determined there is no basis for bringing a criminal prosecution against Goldman Sachs or its employees in regard to allegations set forth in a congressional report.

In an unsigned statement from the Justice Department issued Thursday night, it said the department conducted an exhaustive review for more than a year examining allegations in the Levin-Coburn Report.

Headed by Sen. Carl Levin, D-Michigan, and Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Oklahoma, the 635-page report in 2011 singled out Goldman and Deutsche Bank as examples of Wall Street firms that reaped huge profits by marketing securities backed by subprime mortgages as safe investments to clients, even as the banks bet against these very same securities.

"In my judgment, Goldman clearly misled their clients and they misled Congress," Levin told reporters on a conference call in April 2011.

Goldman Sachs as creepy as we think?
The Senate subcommittee, which spent two years on the investigation, based its report on thousands of internal company documents and e-mails, as well as hundreds of interviews and congressional testimony.

While the department concluded that the burden of proof for a prosecution could not be met, "(it) commend(s) the hard work of those involved in preparing the report and thank the Senate's Permanent Subcomittee on Investigations for its cooperation in regard to the criminal investigation."

Goldman Sachs spokesman David Wells said in a statement, "We are pleased that this matter is behind us."

I'll bet they are pleased to have this behind them. This is the kind of crap that just makes me sick.

[beowulf 1]

The President is just taking care of his biggest donors.

[Gravitymaster 0]

This type of BS should piss off every American regardless of political leanings.

We have heard all the outrage from the Obama supporters about all the Wall Street firms and big banks ripping off investors and consumers for years. But I'm waiting for the pathetic Hopium addicts to come to his defense.

[jinlee 0]

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This type of BS should piss off every American regardless of political leanings.

But it won't. It's Friday and that's all that is important

[kallend 2,106]

Funny how the right suddenly switched to blaming the banks for the subprime mess when it suits their ODS. Until yesterday it was Clinton and the poor people who were to blame.

Anyhow, getting a successful prosecution for illegal acts is quite different from having a congessional report stating that the bank misled its customers. Was there actual fraud?

Weekender has explained this several times in the past, right here on this forum.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[weekender 0]

"While the department concluded that the burden of proof for a prosecution could not be met, "(it) commend(s) the hard work of those involved in preparing the report and thank the Senate's Permanent Subcomittee on Investigations for its cooperation in regard to the criminal investigation."

There it is right there. The prosecutor's feel they might be guilty but cannot get a conviction. Now i have a simple suggestion. we arent going to convict anyone for what happened how about we re write the reg's to insure it doesnt happen again? Not some sweeping new bureaucracy or a bill that changes credit card laws. A very simple solution. The prosecutor’s in this case meet with the regulators and compliance chiefs from the bulge banks. They sit down and actually come up with laws and guidelines that can be applied to derivatives that protect a fair and orderly market but insure a prosecution in the event of a crime.

It wont happen. The banks are fine with things as they are. When you can make a buck a round on a derivative why regulate yourself down to pennies like in stocks. The politicians wont because they don’t understand the market and don’t really care. They write laws to get elected not to help people. That is why derivatives are still widely unregulated but credit cards have their own agency to over see them. Credit cards have nothing to do with our banking problems.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[Gravitymaster 0]

I don't recall anyone on "the Right" supporting fraud or ripping off investors. I'm sure we will see some on the left defending this after screaming about it for years.

[kallend 2,106]

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I don't recall anyone on "the Right" supporting fraud or ripping off investors. I'm sure we will see some on the left defending this after screaming about it for years.

Your memory is faulty, as is your prediction of the future.

Read what Weekender wrote, and TRY to understand it.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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"While the department concluded that the burden of proof for a prosecution could not be met, "(it) commend(s) the hard work of those involved in preparing the report and thank the Senate's Permanent Subcomittee on Investigations for its cooperation in regard to the criminal investigation."

There it is right there. The prosecutor's feel they might be guilty but cannot get a conviction. Now i have a simple suggestion. we arent going to convict anyone for what happened how about we re write the reg's to insure it doesnt happen again? Not some sweeping new bureaucracy or a bill that changes credit card laws. A very simple solution. The prosecutor’s in this case meet with the regulators and compliance chiefs from the bulge banks. They sit down and actually come up with laws and guidelines that can be applied to derivatives that protect a fair and orderly market but insure a prosecution in the event of a crime.

It wont happen. The banks are fine with things as they are. When you can make a buck a round on a derivative why regulate yourself down to pennies like in stocks. The politicians wont because they don’t understand the market and don’t really care. They write laws to get elected not to help people. That is why derivatives are still widely unregulated but credit cards have their own agency to over see them. Credit cards have nothing to do with our banking problems.

Well said!!!

[rushmc 23]

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Funny how the right suddenly switched to blaming the banks for the subprime mess when it suits their ODS. Until yesterday it was Clinton and the poor people who were to blame.

Anyhow, getting a successful prosecution for illegal acts is quite different from having a congessional report stating that the bank misled its customers. Was there actual fraud?

Weekender has explained this several times in the past, right here on this forum.

For the most part the sub prime mess is the govs fault

No matter how many times you say it is not will not change that fact

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

guess what

the gov is pushing lenders to do what they did before that caused the housing melt down

keeps money flowing and delays what has to happen

the banks just took the bs the gov fed them and tried to make is work

once the bad paper was sold enough times there was no one else to sucker in again

Now, here is comes again

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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For the most part the sub prime mess is the govs fault

It is, they should have regulated it better. Without strong regulations you get what happened, teh banks will do anything to make more money. This includes telling their clients what a good investment something is, to drum up business, and then bet against their own clients.

[weekender 0]

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For the most part the sub prime mess is the govs fault

It is, they should have regulated it better. Without strong regulations you get what happened, teh banks will do anything to make more money. This includes telling their clients what a good investment something is, to drum up business, and then bet against their own clients.

It is not a crime of any sort to short a security to a client that he was told to buy. I mentioned this in the past. you are confusing selling with marketing. the trader who shorts the security is soley providing liquidity. whether they think it goes up or down and if it goes up and down, has no bearing on anything. Market making is seperate from research. clients know that, regulators know that. politicians dont and lay people get confused. if it was the opposite i would be charged with a crime about every 6 minutes, hah.

all markets have market makers. every market in the world trades this way. it really makes me sad to see the politicians twist the facts and spread falsehoods just for political gain. it ruins the confidence in the business and turns people against honest players. there is plenty wrong with the system, no need to make stuff up in addition.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[Gravitymaster 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/20/obama.goldman.donations/index.html

See if you can noodle this out.

[billvon 3,070]

>For the most part the sub prime mess is the govs fault

The subprime mess was caused by:

1) dumb people getting loans they could not afford
2) shortsighted bankers setting up absurd (and fragile) debt instruments
3) foolish banks who would loan to anyone with a pulse

Take away any one of those three and it would not have occurred.

[kallend 2,106]

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http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/20/obama.goldman.donations/index.html

See if you can noodle this out.

Indeed.

"For Goldman Sachs, a large financial investment in President Obama does not appear to be paying off."

Did you actually bother to read Weekender's post? Didn't think so.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,106]

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Funny how the right suddenly switched to blaming the banks for the subprime mess when it suits their ODS. Until yesterday it was Clinton and the poor people who were to blame.

Anyhow, getting a successful prosecution for illegal acts is quite different from having a congessional report stating that the bank misled its customers. Was there actual fraud?

Weekender has explained this several times in the past, right here on this forum.

For the most part the sub prime mess is the govs fault

Indeed, deregulation caused a huge mess. The banks were free to fuck us over.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[weekender 0]

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Funny how the right suddenly switched to blaming the banks for the subprime mess when it suits their ODS. Until yesterday it was Clinton and the poor people who were to blame.

Anyhow, getting a successful prosecution for illegal acts is quite different from having a congessional report stating that the bank misled its customers. Was there actual fraud?

Weekender has explained this several times in the past, right here on this forum.

For the most part the sub prime mess is the govs fault

Indeed, deregulation caused a huge mess. The banks were free to fuck us over.

not to start a big thing but i dont see how deregulation caused the problem. these derivatives were never regulated to begin with. If they had perhaps BEST, MLCO and LEHM would not have owned so many of them. Then they would not have collapsed and... we know the rest. so maybe its splitting hairs but there was a failure to regulate, IMO, not a deregulation.

I realize many will feel that i am sort of nit picking but from where i sit, there is a difference.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[Bolas 5]

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>For the most part the sub prime mess is the govs fault

The subprime mess was caused by:

1) dumb people getting loans they could not afford
2) shortsighted bankers setting up absurd (and fragile) debt instruments
3) foolish banks who would loan to anyone with a pulse

Take away any one of those three and it would not have occurred.

#3 was the direct result of regulations requiring banks to provide mortgages to poor people. If they refused they were sued and/or fined. Add to that Fannie and Freddie would buy any mortgage a bank wrote..

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[rushmc 23]

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>For the most part the sub prime mess is the govs fault

The subprime mess was caused by:

1) dumb people getting loans they could not affordbecause the gov threatened them if they did not make the loans
2) shortsighted bankers setting up absurd (and fragile) debt instrumentsto cover the debt the gov was forcing them to take
3) foolish banks who would loan to anyone with a pulseif they wanted to keep auditors out of the bank they had no choice

Take away any one of those three and it would not have occurred.

Take away the only thing that forced them to do something and it never would have started

And it is starting again

The DOJ is telling banks to start making the bad loans again

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,106]

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>For the most part the sub prime mess is the govs fault

The subprime mess was caused by:

1) dumb people getting loans they could not afford
2) shortsighted bankers setting up absurd (and fragile) debt instruments
3) foolish banks who would loan to anyone with a pulse

Take away any one of those three and it would not have occurred.

#3 was the direct result of regulations requiring banks to provide mortgages to poor people.

Unfortunately for your thesis, the CRA loans were not the cause of the problem. Sub-prime loans were, and they had almost nothing to do with the CRA.

Try again.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,106]

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>For the most part the sub prime mess is the govs fault

The subprime mess was caused by:

1) dumb people getting loans they could not affordbecause the gov threatened them if they did not make the loans
2) shortsighted bankers setting up absurd (and fragile) debt instrumentsto cover the debt the gov was forcing them to take
3) foolish banks who would loan to anyone with a pulseif they wanted to keep auditors out of the bank they had no choice

Take away any one of those three and it would not have occurred.

Take away the only thing that forced them to do something and it never would have started

Greed is difficult to remove. Indeed, the GOP is dedicated to it.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,070]

>because the gov threatened them if they did not make the loans

Show me one example of a homeowner who got a loan because the government threatened them. Just one.

>to cover the debt the gov was forcing them to take

Show me one example of a bank forced by the government to set up a CDS instrument. Just one

>if they wanted to keep auditors out of the bank they had no choice

Yeah, funny that. Looks like "keeping the auditors out of the bank" wasn't such a good idea, was it.

[rushmc 23]

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>because the gov threatened them if they did not make the loans

Show me one example of a homeowner who got a loan because the government threatened them. Just one.not what I said Nice twist, I said the gov forced lenders to make bad loans. the idiots who took the loans are another thread

>to cover the debt the gov was forcing them to take

Show me one example of a bank forced by the government to set up a CDS instrument. Just oneThe did what they had to do to survive under gov threats

>if they wanted to keep auditors out of the bank they had no choice

Yeah, funny that. Looks like "keeping the auditors out of the bank" wasn't such a good idea, was it.

another twist on your part

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,106]

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>because the gov threatened them if they did not make the loans

Show me one example of a homeowner who got a loan because the government threatened them. Just one.not what I said Nice twist, I said the gov forced lenders to make bad loans. the idiots who took the loans are another thread

>to cover the debt the gov was forcing them to take

Show me one example of a bank forced by the government to set up a CDS instrument. Just oneThe did what they had to do to survive under gov threats

>if they wanted to keep auditors out of the bank they had no choice

Yeah, funny that. Looks like "keeping the auditors out of the bank" wasn't such a good idea, was it.

another twist on your part

No, you just got called on a stupid comment on your part.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.