normiss 858 #1 August 17, 2012 OK, we won't! Is this how we want to deal with nutters???? Cops murdering and assaulting civilians is getting old. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #2 August 17, 2012 I usually start these public vs officer discussions on the side of the officer. That's the way I viewed this video. I could see shooting him. I wouldn't have had a problem with that. He was moving towards one of the officers, reportedly wielding a knife. Where I have a problem is the shooting continued well after he was down on the ground. Six officers fired 46 rounds. I get that handgun rounds don't stop someone immediately, and if it was one officer firing 8 rounds to stop someone, that could be understandable. But I have a problem believing it took 46 rounds from 6 officers to stop a threat.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #3 August 17, 2012 JEEZUS CHRIST!!! FORTY-SIX shots to stop a guy with a knife??? "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 858 #4 August 17, 2012 He was a fucking looney. Walk up and knock that mother fucker out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #5 August 17, 2012 Maybe there IS something to Sheriff Andy Taylor's ~ 'Ya get ONE bullet, keep it in yer pocket' ~ officer training program! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #6 August 17, 2012 I can see both sides of the argument here. At the same time, anyone who has ever shot a handgun knows how hard it is to hit a target with one. Likewise, just because you hit an agitated person with a handgun doesn't mean they're going down, or are going to stay down.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #7 August 17, 2012 QuoteI can see both sides of the argument here. At the same time, anyone who has ever shot a handgun knows how hard it is to hit a target with one. Likewise, just because you hit an agitated person with a handgun doesn't mean they're going down, or are going to stay down. If he were armed with a firearm that would be a valid point here, he had knife and was down...difficult to justify the continued fire with that threat scenario. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #8 August 17, 2012 Quote If he were armed with a firearm that would be a valid point here, he had knife and was down...difficult to justify the continued fire with that threat scenario. I see that. Don't forget that the police knew this guy from prior encounters. I agree with the sentiment in the thread - the police appear to have handled this poorly.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #9 August 17, 2012 QuoteI usually start these public vs officer discussions on the side of the officer. That's the way I viewed this video. I could see shooting him. I wouldn't have had a problem with that. He was moving towards one of the officers, reportedly wielding a knife. Where I have a problem is the shooting continued well after he was down on the ground. Six officers fired 46 rounds. I get that handgun rounds don't stop someone immediately, and if it was one officer firing 8 rounds to stop someone, that could be understandable. But I have a problem believing it took 46 rounds from 6 officers to stop a threat. Wow, that beats Amadou Diallo's 41 shots. Not sure what to make of that, but there it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #10 August 17, 2012 Quote OK, we won't! Is this how we want to deal with nutters???? Cops murdering and assaulting civilians is getting old. Well, what is new in that? Seems to be a part in the "police training" of US officers these days http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/12/us/new-york-shooting-duplicate-2/index.html How many cops followed this single man, deadly armed with a knife? Did your cops ever have been trained properly on shooting just into a leg, a knee or the shoulder, like ours are? Stop the man! That's first order for an armed cop here. Avoid deadly shot as far as possible. Your armed society really is so polite dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #11 August 17, 2012 Quote Quote OK, we won't! Is this how we want to deal with nutters???? Cops murdering and assaulting civilians is getting old. Well, what is new in that? Seems to be a part in the "police training" of US officers these days http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/12/us/new-york-shooting-duplicate-2/index.html How many cops followed this single man, deadly armed with a knife? Did your cops ever have been trained properly on shooting just into a leg, a knee or the shoulder, like ours are?You Marksmen are trained that way, not your every day beat cop. The every day beat cop is trained to negate the threat. Stop the man! That's first order for an armed cop here. Avoid deadly shot as far as possible. Your armed society really is so polite We just have more personal freedoms, allowing our society to openly disagree and post our PD's incidents, unlike other countries. You really can't help yourself and HAVE to be negative towards America and Americans in every chance, huh? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #12 August 17, 2012 I might have suggested they could hold his attention while someone sneaked up from behind and dropped him with a blow to the back, but seeing how trigger-happy that group was, I can see how no one would volunteer to be the guy coming in from the back. "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #13 August 17, 2012 Quote I might have suggested they could hold his attention while someone sneaked up from behind and dropped him with a blow to the back, but seeing how trigger-happy that group was, I can see how no one would volunteer to be the guy coming in from the back. look... armchair cop!! someone has been watching too many movies.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,564 #14 August 17, 2012 QuoteWe just have more personal freedoms, allowing our society to openly disagree and post our PD's incidents, unlike other countries. So I guess I must have dreamed all those stories about people in the US being prosecuted for filming or recording the police. Really should stop eating cheese before bedtime.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #15 August 17, 2012 It cant be very hard to hit a moving target in the leg. I'm not justifying shooting the guy 46 times, but if someone is advancing aggressively toward you with a knife and you try and shoot them in the arm or the leg, more often than not you will end up getting stabbed.__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 858 #16 August 17, 2012 What if they aren't advancing at all? Based on the PD's response in this case, 46 murdering shots to the body is an acceptable response. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #17 August 17, 2012 We need Coreece to analyze this unfortunate scenario but, alas.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #18 August 17, 2012 Quote .... You really can't help yourself and HAVE to be negative towards America and Americans in every chance, huh? Matt No need to become negative towards the US, you guys are doing that presentation by yourself, every given day. For several posters here, those permanent mass/school/you name it-shootings seem to be normal events. Some of you seem to have lost the view for what is kinda "normal killings" in societies, if there is any. If your cops are that bad trained and incapable to shoot into a leg or an arm to stop a man with 6 cops ore more, how on earth will your average private gun owner handle weapons in emergency case? Properly? He can't. And yet more dead bodies .... But, your society is oh so polite, isn't it? It's f*cked up, that's it. And hence, it's much easier to blame aliens for all, as we idiots have nothing better to do than to be negative towards YOU - agin: it's you, yourself, who are presenting that negative picture to the world. No one else. PS: Here, it's every cop who needs to be trained to stop a man with one shot, not only the marksman. You do not need a marksman when you're that close to a *nutter*. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #19 August 17, 2012 Quote What if they aren't advancing at all? Based on the PD's response in this case, 46 murdering shots to the body is an acceptable response. I wasn't addressing this specific case. I do not condone shooting a guy armed with a knife 46 times. On that issue I dont understand why was shot at all. They could have just tased him. I was addressing the person that said their police are trained to shoot people in the arms or legs as opposed to the body.__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #20 August 17, 2012 Quote No need to become negative towards the US and yet you can always be counted upon to do so anyway Its very clear that you do not like Americans or the United States__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #21 August 17, 2012 Quote .... Its very clear that you do not like Americans or the United States And if so? How does that affect your daily life? BTW: It's BS. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #22 August 17, 2012 Quote If your cops are that bad trained and incapable to shoot into a leg or an arm to stop a man with 6 cops ore more, how on earth will your average private gun owner handle weapons in emergency case? Properly. When lethal force is justified you generally shoot at your attacker's center of mass until he no longer poses a threat (individuals with more training may shoot for the head too in case their attacker was wearing body armor). If aiming for an arm or leg is good enough lethal force is not justified and you should not be shooting a firearm which is a lethal weapon. Guns don't work like they do in the movies and on TV. People don't stop fighting when shot or even mortally wounded. In 1986 _after_ the FBI fatally shot a Miami bank robber he killed one agent and wounded five before they managed to end the fight with six more hits. The other criminal took twelve hits. The 18 hits came from at least 77 shots fired by the FBI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout It's also simpler for private citizens than police. We pay police to assume additional risks and give them training and equipment so they're more likely to survive when they do. In violent confrontations this means having them practice an escalation of force where they apply one level beyond a suspect's (approaching with a knife merits shooting). Most places don't expect private citizens to subject themselves to the same level of risk so the shoot/no-shoot decision is more straight forward. Quote Properly? He can't He can. Easily. Simply. With lower risk of injury than if he complied with his attacker, resisted some other way, or even tried to run away in many cases. Usually without shooting - most criminals stop when they see the gun. Quote Here, it's every cop who needs to be trained to stop a man with one shot, not only the marksman. You do not need a marksman when you're that close to a *nutter*. One shot stops with handguns are only practical on sound stages in Hollywood and in ignorant peoples' imaginations especially with erratically moving targets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #23 August 17, 2012 QuoteQuoteI can see both sides of the argument here. At the same time, anyone who has ever shot a handgun knows how hard it is to hit a target with one. Likewise, just because you hit an agitated person with a handgun doesn't mean they're going down, or are going to stay down. If he were armed with a firearm that would be a valid point here, he had knife and was down...difficult to justify the continued fire with that threat scenario. Why? Knives are deadly weapons just as guns are, and particularly in close quarters. On the question I think was implied by the OP - wouldn't it be better if they could have tased him - I'm not convinced. Their lives were at risk. The situation supported using a deadly weapon in response. Or they could use a slightly less, but still deadly taser. Either way, it's a long way from "Don't Tase Me Bro" Dude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #24 August 17, 2012 QuoteIt cant be very hard to hit a moving target in the leg. I'm not justifying shooting the guy 46 times, but if someone is advancing aggressively toward you with a knife and you try and shoot them in the arm or the leg, more often than not you will end up getting stabbed. There's a pretty obvious compromise in this instance: shoot him 46 times in the legs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #25 August 17, 2012 In this case, I think, a taser would' have been a good first choice. This was a case of 'chain reaction'. One officer took the first shot and 5 others responded in kind. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
